Low Protein Days = Less Hair Fall The Following Morning / Day ??? What Could Explain This?

BigShoes

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TL;DR: when I cut my complete protein intake from 70g-80g per day down to 30g-40g per day from animal foods, I experience significantly lower hair fall the following morning (or day/s). Why might this be?

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Hi everyone,

Along with the theme of lower protein that has been talked about more in the past few weeks (especially in light of Ray's recent chats with Danny and Georgi), I have incidentally been noticing an interesting phenomenon on my (usually accidental) lower protein days - specifically, *significantly reduced* hair fall on the following day/s.

If anyone saw my "carb sources" thread a couple of weeks back: I typically eat about 70g of complete animal protein, usually from beef, which is approximately 350g of lean meat per day. Plus about 30g or so of gelatin, to reach a round number of 100g. I don't tend to consume much dairy at all, due to some digestive problems with it. And I don't get much from plants.

I do this as a basis for health, growth and recovery. But additionally, I am a recreational weightlifter / "bodybuilder" - I am not big by most people's imagination, but have developed a pretty solid, lean physique at 6 ft 1 c. 170lbs, sort of like a boxing light-heavy or an MMA welterweight. I am working on the assumption that lower protein would negatively impact my physique / muscle size, so am usually careful not to let it drop too low.

However, I have recently been having some days of much lower protein (due to some carb source experiments mentioned in my previous thread) - c. 30g of protein from muscle meat (c. 150g of muscle) and occasionally a small amount of brie cheese (maybe 10g protein total). Leading to approximately 40g of compete protein MAXIMUM - plus the gelatin on top of that, say a maximum of 30g or so.

I don't think this lower protein is enough to maintain my physique and health, so have never experimented with it long term. However, every time I have done this, my hair fall is *significantly reduced* the following day / days... What could be going on here??

Current theories are that on the higher protein days, there is: kidney stress, too high cell turnover on the higher protein days, excess methionine / harmful aminos, excess phosphorus (which I always balance with calcium supplementation, but total P may be quite high on most days at c. 1g).

Any thoughts?

Also, would anyone advise that my current average protein intake is unnecessarily high in light of my weightlifting?
 
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Peat said that he needed less thyroid supplementation when he lowered his protein intake. This could significantly increase your metabolism in the short term. I think once in a while, low protein is a good idea. My biggest improvements in weightlifting were when I didn't have time to eat enough protein and my diet was simply orange juice, milk chocolate and lots of jam. I think this will work only in the short term though. I am 23, after age of 30 I will limit my protein to 50g so I can get some benefits of methionine restriction.
 

BearWithMe

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Are you eating quality meat? Have you tried organic, grass fed beef? Any history of vegetarianism / veganism?
 
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Make iron panel
 
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BigShoes

BigShoes

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Thanks to everyone for the responses so far.

Perhaps: Low Protein >> Lower thyroid function >> less wastage/ turnover of nutrients.
Lower protein for a couple of days causes lower thyroid function? What makes you say that?

Protein is overrated and its stressful to consume in large quantities
Hi James - what happened to your website?? And how much protein / meat would you typically eat per day?

Are you eating quality meat? Have you tried organic, grass fed beef? Any history of vegetarianism / veganism?
Hi Bear - yes, high quality organic beef from local farms - I was "carnivore" from 2018 to 2020, and "paleo" for a few years before that. Never vegan.

I've been testing again in the past few days - it really feels like 50g of complete protein (not including gelatin) is the sweet spot for me in terms of reduced hair fall - but I don't know that I could sustain my physique on that amount. I typically would eat minimum 70g of protein from beef (up to c. 100g) - but I notice significantly more hair fall on those days now.

Whether it's just placebo or some other factor, I am not sure, but the difference in hair fall is threefold, minimum.

I will do some trials over the next couple of weeks and report back.
 

Bluebell

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Unless the beef is freshly cooked from raw (not leftovers), and not aged, if you eat too much of it then it can increase histamine levels if you are susceptible to that. Higher histamine can cause hair loss. Could be a possibility to look into.
 

lady1light

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I notice this too. My hair completely stopped falling out when I was juice fasting. For obvious reasons I’m not and don’t want to do that anymore. Also, it seems like animal protein gives me wicked insomnia. Frustrating.
 
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BigShoes

BigShoes

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Unless the beef is freshly cooked from raw (not leftovers), and not aged, if you eat too much of it then it can increase histamine levels if you are susceptible to that. Higher histamine can cause hair loss. Could be a possibility to look into.
Thanks for this Bluebell. Could be histamines, but I would be surprised. I buy meat directly from farms, and sometimes it is so fresh that it barely has any taste at all. From slaughter to plate is usually around 2-3 weeks.

Still histamines is not really something I have ever looked into too closely due to obvious histamine-like symptoms. I will have a closer read.

I notice this too. My hair completely stopped falling out when I was juice fasting. For obvious reasons I’m not and don’t want to do that anymore. Also, it seems like animal protein gives me wicked insomnia. Frustrating.
Hi Lady - following from Bluebell's comments, if you're certain that there's a correlation between animal protein intake and your insomnia symptoms, then I would definitely think that this points to histamines being a potential culprit (from my limited knowledge on the subject).

Perhaps sourcing fresher meat could help if at all possible?
 

meeka

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I recently have reduced protein from animal sources and increased my carbs. I was previously eating 140 grams from animal sources to now eating closer to 80 grams. Probably about 225 grams (1/2 lb) of meat, 3 or 4 oz of cheese, and 2 eggs a day. Previously was probably eating around 450 grams (1 lb) of meat a day. My primary carbs are white rice and orange juice. I do notice I tend to do better with a combination of starches and fruit.

I do feel better/more energetic and less bloated eating less meat than previously. I don't think I will lower my protein much more since I am still young (24 years old), but this is a perspective of someone who went from eating high amounts of protein to a more moderate amount.

Ray has previously mentioned that milk, cheese, and eggs are better sources of protein because of their better calcium to phosphate ratio. That might in part be the reason for lower protein helping your hair fall. Reducing meat might help you easily maintain a better calcium to phosphate ratio. It might be interesting to see how you feel if you increase milk or cheese and reduce meat, but still get 70g to 80g of protein like you originally were. Let us know if you try it.

 

lady1light

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Thanks for this Bluebell. Could be histamines, but I would be surprised. I buy meat directly from farms, and sometimes it is so fresh that it barely has any taste at all. From slaughter to plate is usually around 2-3 weeks.

Still histamines is not really something I have ever looked into too closely due to obvious histamine-like symptoms. I will have a closer read.


Hi Lady - following from Bluebell's comments, if you're certain that there's a correlation between animal protein intake and your insomnia symptoms, then I would definitely think that this points to histamines being a potential culprit (from my limited knowledge on the subject).

Perhaps sourcing fresher meat could help if
Thanks for this Bluebell. Could be histamines, but I would be surprised. I buy meat directly from farms, and sometimes it is so fresh that it barely has any taste at all. From slaughter to plate is usually around 2-3 weeks.

Still histamines is not really something I have ever looked into too closely due to obvious histamine-like symptoms. I will have a closer read.


Hi Lady - following from Bluebell's comments, if you're certain that there's a correlation between animal protein intake and your insomnia symptoms, then I would definitely think that this points to histamines being a potential culprit (from my limited knowledge on the subject).

Perhaps sourcing fresher meat could help if at all possible?
Yes I think it could definitely be histamine related as I seem to flush and get itchy randomly thought out the day. Thanks for the advice!
 

GreekDemiGod

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However, lower methionine consumption increases metabolic rate...
Well, if theoretically a high carb, low protein, zero fat diet correlates with the fastest metabolism, then I'm not sure if that is desirable nor the ideal state. It can't be, we're not meant to eat zero fat.
 

LadyRae

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Well, if theoretically a high carb, low protein, zero fat diet correlates with the fastest metabolism, then I'm not sure if that is desirable nor the ideal state. It can't be, we're not meant to eat zero fat.
I never said anything about eating zero fat
 

LadyRae

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Never noticed a difference. I actually feel better eating 160-180g of protein a day
I am currently experimenting with eating an extremely low methionine diet. I am supplementing my fruit intake with a lot of hydrolyzed multi collagen powder and beef gelatin. Eating a lot of carrot salad, ripe fruit, homemade jello with blended fruits, some masa harina gelatin pancakes.... And I agree with you, I usually eat around 150 g of protein a day.

So far, a couple days into this experiment, I've noticed that my sleep is better and I am leaner and recovering from exercise much faster with absolutely no soreness
 
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