Blood Letting For Iron Removal & Health - Experiences And Advice

dookie

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Keeping iron low seems to be an important factor for good health, and Peat talks about strategies to minimize iron, such as having coffee with meat. In an interview, he mentions that people who donate blood are in better health than the general population (they have less diseases).

Now for the practical aspect of it:

Obviously using coffee and other "supplements" like vitamin E, tetracyclines and aspirin will "chelate" the iron, but relatively slowly. Many people on the forum already use these things. It seems that the fastest way of removing iron is by removing the blood, like "blood letting" in the old days.

For anyone who has donated blood or had blood removed: what effects did you experience? Were the benefits instant and drastic, or were they subtle and slow (ie it took several "donations" to notice anything)? Did you experience any side-effects? Would you recommend it as a way to improve the health, for a sick person?

There are some people who are unable to donate blood. For those people, if they know how to perform a venipuncture at home (like for a blood test), and just let the blood drip out in a bottle - what would be an appropriate "safe" amount of blood to remove at one time? I know for donations, they remove 450ml of blood. But it seems that quantity could lead to some dizziness and a few other side-effects. Would removing a quantity such as 50 ml (and repeating every few weeks) be safe and effective?
 

tankasnowgod

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The one thing that really blows my mind on this forum is how many people are interested in iron reduction, and yet don't want to monitor their iron markers. Before anyone embarks on any iron reduction strategy, they should ensure that their iron levels do, in fact, need to be lowered. If someone doesn't have adequate hemoglobin, or TSAT and ferritin are really low, then losing or donating blood would just make their health problems worse. On the other end, some hemochromatosis patients have ferritin over 1000, and undergo phlebotomies once, or even twice, a week for months (sometimes up to and over a year) to lower their iron to safe levels. There is simply a tremendous amount of variation between individuals.

Having said that, yes, I would recommend blood donation if your hemoglobin is above 12.5, and ferritin is over 100. I got de-ironed myself, and did notice some benefits, like better mood, more energy and such. Although it took about 6 months or so for the benefits to manifest. If you're doing any sort of iron lowering protocol, you should monitor both objective markers, and subjective ones like mood and energy. Although when I donate blood these days, I do feel more euphoric and alive on the day of donation. I believe that is a somewhat common reaction.

As for your idea of removing a smaller amount of blood more frequently, yes, it would work for iron reduction. Dr. Fachinni in "The Iron Factor of Aging" mentions lack of intestinal parasites (they would feed on host blood) as one reason why iron levels tend to be higher in modern society. Essentially, they are constantly removing a small amount of blood from the host. I would think that minimize side effects like dizziness and such, but you would be puncturing your skin and veins more often, which could cause a host of different side effects. I would also think it would be a tougher schedule to maintain.
 

tankasnowgod

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@tankasnowgod

You recommend a hemoglobin below 12.5? My lab's normal range is 13,5 - 17!

No, I think 12.5 is the bare minimum if you are going to consider donating blood. I think higher in that lab range is probably better. I used a B complex or iron free multivitamin to keep hemoglobin between 14.5-15.5 while getting de-ironed. I don't even think it's a problem if it's a bit above 17 or 18, but at some point, I think it makes blood too thick.

I've seen 25-75 listed as the "Ideal Ferritin maintenance range," and I think that's generally the best place to shoot for.
 

Regina

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What about using humifulvate to reduce iron loads? i.e., a proprietary blend of humic and fluvic acids. For example, in the product Complete Metal Cleanse by Enzymatic Therapy.
 
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dbh25

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Donating blood worked for me, I had no side effects. (Ferritin started at over 200 and last time was around 30.) I'm due for another iron panel, at this point I'm planning to donate blood 3-4 times per year.
 
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dookie

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Donating blood worked for me, I had no side effects. (Ferritin started at over 200 and last time was around 30.) I'm due for another iron panel, at this point I'm planning to donate blood 3-4 times per year.

Any benefits noticed?
 

dbh25

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Any benefits noticed?
Iron panel numbers were lower like % saturation and ferritin . I feel better for a few days after donating. I also noticed gray hair (I only had a little) reverted back to my natural hair color.
 

tankasnowgod

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I also noticed gray hair (I only had a little) reverted back to my natural hair color.

I noticed the same thing. I only had a few as well. Although since getting de-ironed, I noticed that my hair color is much darker overall.
 
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What about using humifulvate to reduce iron loads? i.e., a proprietary blend of humic and fluvic acids. For example, in the product Complete Metal Cleanse by Enzymatic Therapy.
*Bump* anyone with thoughts on this?
 
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i donated and felt better immediately after... i don't know if it attributes to iron levels or not, but definitely felt better after. however, nothing really ground breaking because it didn't last more than a day or two. but i'll keep donating as much as i can.. i think the max you can do is every 90 days or something, i'm due again in october
 

Tarmander

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I give blood 2-3 times a year. My experience and research on it has been that it raises stress hormones, and you should prepare accordingly. The short term euphoria experienced by myself and others bears this out.

Salt loss and sugar loss seem to be the biggest culprits of stress, and supplementing extra salt and sugar before/after giving blood should ease the amount of stress your body experiences. Doing liver the next day would probably also be a good idea.

One thing I find interesting is that I have never experienced accute low blood sugar from giving blood. This might be from my preparation, but it also points to "blood sugar" not being just the amount of sugar in your blood. I always expected a drop in blood sugar but it never quite comes.
 
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dookie

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@tankasnowgod @Tarmander @mayweatherking @dbh25 @Regina @lisaferraro

To those who have donated blood:

Could the euphoria sensation (after blood donation) be from elevated stress hormones, like cortisol? I Know I got some euphoria feelings after intense exercise, which I presume is from elevated cortisol

Have you noticed any nootropic, cognitive or memory improving effects from blood donation?
 

Tarmander

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@tankasnowgod @Tarmander @mayweatherking @dbh25 @Regina @lisaferraro

To those who have donated blood:

Could the euphoria sensation (after blood donation) be from elevated stress hormones, like cortisol? I Know I got some euphoria feelings after intense exercise, which I presume is from elevated cortisol

Have you noticed any nootropic, cognitive or memory improving effects from blood donation?

Yeah that was kind of the point of my previous post. If you are sensitive, you will notice that the week or so after blood donation you have some issues with sleep and continuity of purpose. Things become faster, but more frantic, more difficult. Giving blood is destabilizing, but given the right precautions should be healthful. Listening to your body will lead to rest.
 

tankasnowgod

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@tankasnowgod @Tarmander @mayweatherking @dbh25 @Regina @lisaferraro

To those who have donated blood:

Could the euphoria sensation (after blood donation) be from elevated stress hormones, like cortisol? I Know I got some euphoria feelings after intense exercise, which I presume is from elevated cortisol

Have you noticed any nootropic, cognitive or memory improving effects from blood donation?

I guess it could be from elevated stress hormones (after all, you are causing a wound and losing 1 pint or so of blood), but it doesn't feel like it to me. I become a bit more aware and keyed in (maybe a bit keyed up), but I do not feel frantic or have issues with sleep or purpose, as was the case for Tarmander. Also, the more times I've donated, I've noticed fewer "bad" side effects, and mainly just get a bit of euphoria now.

I didn't notice any memory or cognitive effects from a single donation, but over time while getting de-ironed, I did notice an improvement in mood and clearer thinking.
 

dbh25

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@tankasnowgod @Tarmander @mayweatherking @dbh25 @Regina @lisaferraro

To those who have donated blood:
Could the euphoria sensation (after blood donation) be from elevated stress hormones, like cortisol? I Know I got some euphoria feelings after intense exercise, which I presume is from elevated cortisol
Have you noticed any nootropic, cognitive or memory improving effects from blood donation?

It's hard to describe it objectively, but it felt different than after intense exercise. I was a bit tired for a few days and then just felt better overall. Like some kind of internal cleansing happens.

I didn't notice any memory or cognitive effects from a single donation, but over time while getting de-ironed, I did notice an improvement in mood and clearer thinking.
Yes, same for me.
 

Dan W

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I've noticed both positive and negative short-term reactions to blood donations. It makes me think Tarmander's on to something with the rise in stress hormones: perhaps positive feelings are from stimulatory hormones plus adequate stress reserves.
 
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dookie

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@tankasnowgod @Tarmander @mayweatherking @dbh25 @Regina @lisaferraro

To everyone who has experience with blood removal/donating/letting: Did you ever experience any signs of "estrogen reduction" removing blood? Like decreased edema, lighter skin, less noticeable moles, etc? Any improvement with allergies?

Maybe @haidut would also know something about this: Is there any scientific basis for blood removal lowering estrogen? Would you say blood removal is overall more stressful or beneficial (in terms of hormonal effects)?

Would removing 50 ml of blood every few days be less stressful, and equally as beneficial, as removing the whole 450-500 ml at once?
 

Tarmander

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@tankasnowgod @Tarmander @mayweatherking @dbh25 @Regina @lisaferraro

To everyone who has experience with blood removal/donating/letting: Did you ever experience any signs of "estrogen reduction" removing blood? Like decreased edema, lighter skin, less noticeable moles, etc? Any improvement with allergies?

Maybe @haidut would also know something about this: Is there any scientific basis for blood removal lowering estrogen? Would you say blood removal is overall more stressful or beneficial (in terms of hormonal effects)?

Would removing 50 ml of blood every few days be less stressful, and equally as beneficial, as removing the whole 450-500 ml at once?

I found it was a bit too stressful to continue to give blood. I would always feel like crap for about a week afterwards. I think your idea for giving less blood more frequently is probably a good one. I did not get any reduction in estrogen symptoms or anything like that. If anything I felt more stressed.
 

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