Is this forum Highjacked?

[tankasnowgod]

Agree that many topics have become political, which has clouded the forum homepage and shifted the focus away from health. I understand why this has happened, but this stuff could be discussed elsewhere as it is not very productive to improve health and generally does not generate new ideas, rather leading people to project and argue.

Again, this is simply not true-

Not a single political topic on the Forum Homepage when this topic was started. Political topics do come up, and get more attention during big political events (like US presidential elections), but they certainly aren't the main focus.

 

[PolishSun]

Somebody got high jacked by some drug. And started ignoring what is this forum about. Or it could be anything else. When we talk about other people we might be talking about ourselves. Apparently, the brain understands "me" and "others" on the same spots. So when somebody is not fit, then he might start interchange one with another. Start mixing the view of himself with the view of other people. Or the view of some close to him people with the view of complete strangers, who he actually knows nothing about. There was also a book called "Bicameral mind" or something like that. And it all starts usually at the puberty, when estrogen kicks in. The question is : is here free will, or is somebody is doomed because of bad health. Is someone doomed to be an ***hole because of bad gut bacteria? How desperate someone has to become to start insulting strangers. How bad he feels about himself or his close person. And this happens when his stress hormones are kicking in because of bad gut bacteria or an allergy. Here is a reason why Ray is so humble and kind to other people. I just do not know it.

 

[Carb54]

Again, this is simply not true-

View attachment 21909

Not a single political topic on the Forum Homepage when this topic was started. Political topics do come up, and get more attention during big political events (like US presidential elections), but they certainly aren't the main focus.

That’s fair, it looks like you are right as of late. Potentially I was visiting the site during a busy political period

 

[Peater]

@Quelsatron i admit i laughed hard at that. I like to think ray would laugh at himself in cynical party wojak form too.

 

[ChemHead]

Anyway, i stopped focusing so much on diet for a while and instead i started experimenting with psychedelics as i am a firm believer that the psychedelic experience is in part a phenomenon of
serotonin blocking.

Why didn't you just stick with this and talk about how your experience with psychedelics has affected you and look for feedback on perhaps why that might be... or perhaps offer to others why you think it might be? Instead, you started a thread centered around the fact that there are people out there that say things that are offensive to you or that you don't like. Welcome to life. This will never change.

One thing that i realized is that society is serotonin driven. There is nothing healthy about building societies, the way i see it society is the equivalent of hibernation for animals that build groups instead of living alone.

Bears deal with environmental stress by hibernating, humans build societies instead.


Society building is a stress reaction to danger and lack of resources,

This much was crystal clear while tripping which is a state which i believe reflects a low serotonin state.

Other things that where very clear to me is that language is very limiting just like doctor Peat said.

Authoritarianism and being stuck in a certain perspective about the world along with failure to realize that every creatures experiences the world very differently than you is also a symptom of high serotonin the way i see it.

Have you considered from where it is that your LSD came? Have you considered that you were able to somehow find and purchase LSD because the foundation of a billion different elements resulting from the fruits of society have come together, brick by brick over centuries... millenia?

It's ok for you to have your beliefs, but this isn't grounded in reality. Do you have clinical data to suggest that authoritarians have high serotonin? The only reason this statement sounds ridiculous is because it's incredibly naive to think that you can just come on a forum and say things that aren't supported by any kind of data (even if anecdotal) or don't follow any kind of logical progression and then not expect what you say to be picked apart by "intellectual vultures". That's really the primary purpose of a forum. We use forums because we're seeking information and critique of ideas. We collectively float ideas into the public sphere so that people who may have different (and, hopefully, better) perspectives than we can either indicate that we're going down a dead end path with our ideas or they can validate or even strengthen them. In the end the community either ends up helping you by convincing you that what you think is flawed and not worth pursuing further or you end up helping the community by presenting an idea that has merit. Either way, everyone wins.

However, as nice as that all sounds, forums are a pool of competing ideas. If you were just lay over dead and concede every time your ideas were criticized without defending them when they have a firm foundation based in reason, then no one would ever get anywhere and you wouldn't even have your LSD you've been enjoying lately. Imagine if Albert Hofmann, in his pursuit to discover and synthesize LSD, was criticized politically or, perhaps, even criticized about this synthetic methods in producing LSD and he decided that his continued pursuit in that endeavor wasn't worth risking being offensive? You might not have your LSD. Building of societies is why you get to play around with LSD in a heated and air-conditioned living space while communicating with people all over the world nearly instantaneously using a device that fits in your pocket. Perhaps you would prefer living in a cave, bathing in a swamp, and scouring the earth for food, hoping that the last meal you ate wasn't your last? I would strongly caution you to consider these things before saying "there is nothing healthy about building societies". People build societies because it's easier to put aside their irreconcilable differences and unite over their commonalities for mutual benefit. That's also precisely why forums generally exist. Most people are here because they have some kind of health issue and, while maybe they don't care for someone's religious proclivities, they overlook those because they benefit from some other aspect of that person's experience or knowledge.

Forums don't exist so that everyone can pander to your perception of how reality is supposed to be. If that's what you're looking for, I recommend a career in computer science and artificial intelligence. You can build your own virtual reality with artificially intelligent beings programmed to be exactly the way you want them to be so they never offend you. We have to share this world, though, and when it comes to defending ideas, getting into arguments and resorting to personal attacks comes with the territory... So, what? Ignore it. If you don't like competition of ideas and you're not willing to accept the potential that some of those ideas may offend you, then you should stay away from forums and social media and you shouldn't release your own ideas out into the public sphere because someone inevitably will attack your ideas.. and they should if it's warranted. It's healthy to attack and criticize ideas. People that resort to complaining and personal attacks usually do so because they can't coherently defend their positions. That's just the way things are and it comes with the territory. I've encountered people that resort to personal attacks and I fight back with reason and logic and I try to avoid the senseless personal attacks. Sometimes it works and the conversation turns productive and sometimes I'm just dealing with an idiot that wants me and everyone else to think and believe the way they do just because it's what they want and not because they have a coherent and convincing argument for it.

This forum is probably highjacked by people who think they have it all figured out, because this is not really a forum reflecting the antiauthoritarian child like behaviour.

Let's be real here, everybody thinks they have it all figured out in their own way. Otherwise, you wouldn't have created this thread... because you have apparently taken LSD and "figured out" what it means to not have it all figured out. It's clear that you don't like organized religion.. and that's ok. However, anyone who participates in a forum like this adheres to a somewhat unspoken contract and that is that you know what you're getting yourself into when you choose to participate. You should know that you're participating in conversation with a bunch of people who ARE NOT YOU. They won't necessarily think or believe the way you do and they don't have to, nor should they ever be forcibly compelled to. If I want to believe that the world is run by lizard people, it's my right to do so and it's also the right of anyone else to intellectually shred that idea to pieces if they so choose and if I choose to engage in that conversation. It is NO ONE's right to suggest that I shouldn't be able to voice any idea, no matter how ridiculous. That's what a free-thinking and open society is about. You get the privilege of thinking and saying whatever you believe without having your head on a chopping block, but you also don't get to put anyone else's head on that same chopping block from which you're protected.

This forum is full of serotonin dominant authoritarians, who turned Doctor Peats ideas into a Dogma, and now they just walk around with their jaws clenched seeing enemies everywhere,

My experience on this forum has actually been quite pleasant compared to nearly every other forum or social media platform I've ever used. So, to the RayPeat community, I appreciate you all.

Anyway long post lol , i dont even know why i cared to write this , maybe i just wanted to put my ideas out there for debate.

Nothing wrong with putting ideas out for debate. That's why we're all really here.

Just remember being fearful of anything different than what you are used too is probably serotonin paranoia so when someone presents a new reality to you explore it before attacking the poor fella. :)))

I disagree with you. I've never heard of serotonin paranoia and I don't believe it exists. I think you made it up and you don't have anything substantive to back up this claim. Steroid and peptide hormones and the cascades of genetic expression they invoke are far more complex than people understand and I think it's sad that some of them are so broadly generalized as being "bad" or "good" or "evil" or however else they may be personified. All hormones have a biological purpose and none of them are bad. It's only when the body is in a state of dysregulation that bad things can happen that cause negative health consequences.

 

[KTownSatfats]

Why didn't you just stick with this and talk about how your experience with psychedelics has affected you and look for feedback on perhaps why that might be... or perhaps offer to others why you think it might be? Instead, you started a thread centered around the fact that there are people out there that say things that are offensive to you or that you don't like. Welcome to life. This will never change.



Have you considered from where it is that your LSD came? Have you considered that you were able to somehow find and purchase LSD because the foundation of a billion different elements resulting from the fruits of society have come together, brick by brick over centuries... millenia?

It's ok for you to have your beliefs, but this isn't grounded in reality. Do you have clinical data to suggest that authoritarians have high serotonin? The only reason this statement sounds ridiculous is because it's incredibly naive to think that you can just come on a forum and say things that aren't supported by any kind of data (even if anecdotal) or don't follow any kind of logical progression and then not expect what you say to be picked apart by "intellectual vultures". That's really the primary purpose of a forum. We use forums because we're seeking information and critique of ideas. We collectively float ideas into the public sphere so that people who may have different (and, hopefully, better) perspectives than we can either indicate that we're going down a dead end path with our ideas or they can validate or even strengthen them. In the end the community either ends up helping you by convincing you that what you think is flawed and not worth pursuing further or you end up helping the community by presenting an idea that has merit. Either way, everyone wins.

However, as nice as that all sounds, forums are a pool of competing ideas. If you were just lay over dead and concede every time your ideas were criticized without defending them when they have a firm foundation based in reason, then no one would ever get anywhere and you wouldn't even have your LSD you've been enjoying lately. Imagine if Albert Hofmann, in his pursuit to discover and synthesize LSD, was criticized politically or, perhaps, even criticized about this synthetic methods in producing LSD and he decided that his continued pursuit in that endeavor wasn't worth risking being offensive? You might not have your LSD. Building of societies is why you get to play around with LSD in a heated and air-conditioned living space while communicating with people all over the world nearly instantaneously using a device that fits in your pocket. Perhaps you would prefer living in a cave, bathing in a swamp, and scouring the earth for food, hoping that the last meal you ate wasn't your last? I would strongly caution you to consider these things before saying "there is nothing healthy about building societies". People build societies because it's easier to put aside their irreconcilable differences and unite over their commonalities for mutual benefit. That's also precisely why forums generally exist. Most people are here because they have some kind of health issue and, while maybe they don't care for someone's religious proclivities, they overlook those because they benefit from some other aspect of that person's experience or knowledge.

Forums don't exist so that everyone can pander to your perception of how reality is supposed to be. If that's what you're looking for, I recommend a career in computer science and artificial intelligence. You can build your own virtual reality with artificially intelligent beings programmed to be exactly the way you want them to be so they never offend you. We have to share this world, though, and when it comes to defending ideas, getting into arguments and resorting to personal attacks comes with the territory... So, what? Ignore it. If you don't like competition of ideas and you're not willing to accept the potential that some of those ideas may offend you, then you should stay away from forums and social media and you shouldn't release your own ideas out into the public sphere because someone inevitably will attack your ideas.. and they should if it's warranted. It's healthy to attack and criticize ideas. People that resort to complaining and personal attacks usually do so because they can't coherently defend their positions. That's just the way things are and it comes with the territory. I've encountered people that resort to personal attacks and I fight back with reason and logic and I try to avoid the senseless personal attacks. Sometimes it works and the conversation turns productive and sometimes I'm just dealing with an idiot that wants me and everyone else to think and believe the way they do just because it's what they want and not because they have a coherent and convincing argument for it.



Let's be real here, everybody thinks they have it all figured out in their own way. Otherwise, you wouldn't have created this thread... because you have apparently taken LSD and "figured out" what it means to not have it all figured out. It's clear that you don't like organized religion.. and that's ok. However, anyone who participates in a forum like this adheres to a somewhat unspoken contract and that is that you know what you're getting yourself into when you choose to participate. You should know that you're participating in conversation with a bunch of people who ARE NOT YOU. They won't necessarily think or believe the way you do and they don't have to, nor should they ever be forcibly compelled to. If I want to believe that the world is run by lizard people, it's my right to do so and it's also the right of anyone else to intellectually shred that idea to pieces if they so choose and if I choose to engage in that conversation. It is NO ONE's right to suggest that I shouldn't be able to voice any idea, no matter how ridiculous. That's what a free-thinking and open society is about. You get the privilege of thinking and saying whatever you believe without having your head on a chopping block, but you also don't get to put anyone else's head on that same chopping block from which you're protected.



My experience on this forum has actually been quite pleasant compared to nearly every other forum or social media platform I've ever used. So, to the RayPeat community, I appreciate you all.



Nothing wrong with putting ideas out for debate. That's why we're all really here.



I disagree with you. I've never heard of serotonin paranoia and I don't believe it exists. I think you made it up and you don't have anything substantive to back up this claim. Steroid and peptide hormones and the cascades of genetic expression they invoke are far more complex than people understand and I think it's sad that some of them are so broadly generalized as being "bad" or "good" or "evil" or however else they may be personified. All hormones have a biological purpose and none of them are bad. It's only when the body is in a state of dysregulation that bad things can happen that cause negative health consequences.

Wow! Thank you for all that. So artfully and logically expressed. It’s thrilling to me when I get to see that actually not all is defensiveness and mean spirited reactivity. Thanks for using your frontal lobe. I’ve had about enough from the lizard brain today.

 

[akgrrrl]

the majority of people on a health forum don't have good health. You shouldn't really expect people on here, who are trying to find good health, to have a healthy form of communicating. That, combined with the rampant skepticism and covid has caused a lot of paranoia and neurotic questioning, which on the internet naturally brings out the extremes of people. It would be nice if everyone on here was like Ray, but theres a reason there are few like him

As I said, I don't have any hard feelings one way or another, but would generally lean towards whatever the majority of people within a society would want for themselves. I don't know or claim to know what is best for society, but it would make sense to me that whatever results in the majority of people being happier/freer would be ideal.

I don't see anything productive about people constantly butting heads or being in conflict with one another, but if that's the way things continue to go, so be it, it's just something I'm not interested in contributing to.

So wait, you are saying, if the majority of people came to a science focused forum because they were sick, and it was ascertained that they ate the worst imaginable fried fast foods 3x a day for 15years, we should just live and let live since that majority would remain more free and happy to do as they like?

 

[akgrrrl]

And yes, as you state.
Thankyou Chemhead.

Wow! Thank you for all that. So artfully and logically expressed. It’s thrilling to me when I get to see that actually not all is defensiveness and mean spirited reactivity. Thanks for using your frontal lobe. I’ve had about enough from the lizard brain today.

 

[Charger]

So wait, you are saying, if the majority of people came to a science focused forum because they were sick, and it was ascertained that they ate the worst imaginable fried fast foods 3x a day for 15years, we should just live and let live since that majority would remain more free and happy to do as they like?

Whatever point you're trying to make is being conveyed about as effectively as the OP. I've read it several times and still can't understand exactly what you're getting at but... I'll narrow down what I can understand...

we should just live and let live since that majority would remain more free and happy to do as they like?

Yes.

 

[KTownSatfats]

Whatever point you're trying to make is being conveyed about as effectively as the OP. I've read it several times and still can't understand exactly what you're getting at but... I'll narrow down what I can understand...



Yes.

Personally, I'm all for free will and people taking charge of their own lives and doing whatever they can see to live the life they choose. And I believe most here feel the same. But this thing of live and let live, never discuss your views if someone else sees it differently sounds boring, slow, low energy and seratonin induced for sure. I really enjoy the way most here aren't afraid to dig into different subjects (mostly nutritional) and put it all on the table so that we all can learn more of what's what and hopefully improve our health. Plus most are logical and site references and it's mostly pretty polite and often even humorous and fun.
While I know it's a popular idea for folks to not express their views for fear of hurting others' feelings, I think it's gone a bit far. We're adults here, I'm assuming. It's ok to express differing viewpoints. I think most of us can deal with it. You can call it butting heads if you like, but that's just another ill-examined make-wrong.
The only time it actually feels mean is posts like yours and OP's, where basically the whole forum is called to task, with very little evidence, but broad, overreaching accusations. It seems like you both have an axe to grind. Or maybe that's just your superiority complex and generally how you live your life.
And then when we don't go along with your story, you're offended and go back to even more accusations, cuz, we shouldn't say what we feel, and gosh darn it, we shouldn't be sarcastic! Cuz, that's just wrong!!
Grow up, little bo-peep.

 

[Charger]

Personally, I'm all for free will and people taking charge of their own lives and doing whatever they can see to live the life they choose. And I believe most here feel the same. But this thing of live and let live, never discuss your views if someone else sees it differently sounds boring, slow, low energy and seratonin induced for sure. I really enjoy the way most here aren't afraid to dig into different subjects (mostly nutritional) and put it all on the table so that we all can learn more of what's what and hopefully improve our health. Plus most are logical and site references and it's mostly pretty polite and often even humorous and fun.
While I know it's a popular idea for folks to not express their views for fear of hurting others' feelings, I think it's gone a bit far. We're adults here, I'm assuming. It's ok to express differing viewpoints. I think most of us can deal with it. You can call it butting heads if you like, but that's just another ill-examined make-wrong.
The only time it actually feels mean is posts like yours and OP's, where basically the whole forum is called to task, with very little evidence, but broad, overreaching accusations. It seems like you both have an axe to grind. Or maybe that's just your superiority complex and generally how you live your life.
And then when we don't go along with your story, you're offended and go back to even more accusations, cuz, we shouldn't say what we feel, and gosh darn it, we shouldn't be sarcastic! Cuz, that's just wrong!!
Grow up, little bo-peep.

So much effort in this post and almost none of it is accurate or applies to me, I don't know why you're pairing me with the OP when I don't share his positions beyond one particular point I expounded on in his entire post with the idea of serotonin potentially being correlated with hatred or bigotry, which apparently no one wanted to discuss.

I never discouraged anyone from sharing their views, just pointed out that posts that only serve to antagonize or provoke others aren't constructive. How do posts like that help you or anyone else here? What claims have I made that you want me to provide evidence for?

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm offended, again, I don't hold hard feelings one way about most issues discussed here. Nor am I catching feelings when nerds go around labeling people snowflakes or "bo-peep" after they rub an IdeaLabs product on their nutsack and placebo'd themselvers into thinking they've become alpha males that need to go and assert dominance on an internet forum, and then have the nerve to imply I'm the one with a superiority complex.

 

[KTownSatfats]

So much effort in this post and almost none of it is accurate or applies to me, I don't know why you're pairing me with the OP when I don't share his positions beyond one particular point I expounded on in his entire post with the idea of serotonin potentially being correlated with hatred or bigotry, which apparently no one wanted to discuss.

I never discouraged anyone from sharing their views, just pointed out that posts that only serve to antagonize or provoke others aren't constructive. How do posts like that help you or anyone else here? What claims have I made that you want me to provide evidence for?

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm offended, again, I don't hold hard feelings one way about most issues discussed here. Nor am I catching feelings when nerds go around labeling people snowflakes or "bo-peep" after they rub an IdeaLabs product on their nutsack and placebo'd themselvers into thinking they've become alpha males that need to go and assert dominance on an internet forum, and then have the nerve to imply I'm the one with a superiority complex.

Mm hmm. That’s what I’m talking about. Posts that only serve to antagonize and provoke. Not nice. And that’s what you’re consistently offering.
Hmm, well you can go ahead and claim to be not offended and to not hold hard feelings, but that last sentence says different.
I only called you bo-peep in response to your last claim of living and let live. Cuz you’re such a swell guy, after your latest put-down. Akgrrrl, I believe.

 

[dhtsupreme]

It's ok for you to have your beliefs, but this isn't grounded in reality. Do you have clinical data to suggest that authoritarians have high serotonin? The only reason this statement sounds ridiculous is because it's incredibly naive to think that you can just come on a forum and say things that aren't supported by any kind of data (even if anecdotal) or don't follow any kind of logical progression and then not expect what you say to be picked apart by "intellectual vultures". That's really the primary purpose of a forum. We use forums because we're seeking information and critique of ideas. We collectively float ideas into the public sphere so that people who may have different (and, hopefully, better) perspectives than we can either indicate that we're going down a dead end path with our ideas or they can validate or even strengthen them. In the end the community either ends up helping you by convincing you that what you think is flawed and not worth pursuing further or you end up helping the community by presenting an idea that has merit. Either way, everyone wins.

However, as nice as that all sounds, forums are a pool of competing ideas. If you were just lay over dead and concede every time your ideas were criticized without defending them when they have a firm foundation based in reason, then no one would ever get anywhere and you wouldn't even have your LSD you've been enjoying lately. Imagine if Albert Hofmann, in his pursuit to discover and synthesize LSD, was criticized politically or, perhaps, even criticized about this synthetic methods in producing LSD and he decided that his continued pursuit in that endeavor wasn't worth risking being offensive? You might not have your LSD. Building of societies is why you get to play around with LSD in a heated and air-conditioned living space while communicating with people all over the world nearly instantaneously using a device that fits in your pocket. Perhaps you would prefer living in a cave, bathing in a swamp, and scouring the earth for food, hoping that the last meal you ate wasn't your last? I would strongly caution you to consider these things before saying "there is nothing healthy about building societies". People build societies because it's easier to put aside their irreconcilable differences and unite over their commonalities for mutual benefit. That's also precisely why forums generally exist. Most people are here because they have some kind of health issue and, while maybe they don't care for someone's religious proclivities, they overlook those because they benefit from some other aspect of that person's experience or knowledge.

Let's be real here, everybody thinks they have it all figured out in their own way. Otherwise, you wouldn't have created this thread... because you have apparently taken LSD and "figured out" what it means to not have it all figured out. It's clear that you don't like organized religion.. and that's ok. However, anyone who participates in a forum like this adheres to a somewhat unspoken contract and that is that you know what you're getting yourself into when you choose to participate. You should know that you're participating in conversation with a bunch of people who ARE NOT YOU. They won't necessarily think or believe the way you do and they don't have to, nor should they ever be forcibly compelled to. If I want to believe that the world is run by lizard people, it's my right to do so and it's also the right of anyone else to intellectually shred that idea to pieces if they so choose and if I choose to engage in that conversation. It is NO ONE's right to suggest that I shouldn't be able to voice any idea, no matter how ridiculous. That's what a free-thinking and open society is about. You get the privilege of thinking and saying whatever you believe without having your head on a chopping block, but you also don't get to put anyone else's head on that same chopping block from which you're protected. Nothing wrong with putting ideas out for debate. That's why we're all really here.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think anybody is against that

I disagree with you. I've never heard of serotonin paranoia and I don't believe it exists. I think you made it up and you don't have anything substantive to back up this claim. Steroid and peptide hormones and the cascades of genetic expression they invoke are far more complex than people understand and I think it's sad that some of them are so broadly generalized as being "bad" or "good" or "evil" or however else they may be personified. All hormones have a biological purpose and none of them are bad. It's only when the body is in a state of dysregulation that bad things can happen that cause negative health consequences.

The High Serotonin Personality » TESTONATION

Serotonin is a complicated neurotransmitter that, contrary to other neurotransmitters, has an influence on everything in the body. It’s currently believed to aid in anxiety, depression, impatience, impulsiveness, anger, etc. One of the main reasons for this is that the metabolite of serotonin...

men-elite.com

Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

Serotonin research is relatively new, but it rivals estrogen research for the level of incompetence and apparent fraudulent intent that can be found in professional publications. This is partly because of the involvement of the drug industry, but the U.S. government also played a role in setting...

raypeat.com

I don't think OP really meant "serotonin paranoia" as a real thing. Just a way to say high serotonin. I could be wrong

If you read these two articles, it's clear there are neurotransmitters/hormones that increase/decrease in result of stress and cause aging/breakdown of an organism. Dysregulation is a state where hormones/neurotransmitters/other molecules in organs like liver, thyroid, thymus etc. change to an imbalanced state that leaves an organism weaker. In a state of greater stress in the brain, serotonin is high and dopamine is lower. It's not just the molecules themselves, it's their balance with others that's important. There's of course more involved and more we haven't figured out. But we have an idea of what it looks like as a whole in the body "high serotonin, prolactin, cortisol, adrenaline. low thyroid, high estrogen" versus "high dopamine, low prolactin, lowered cortisol, higher gaba to glutamate, thyroid, high progesterone". Is it that simple? No there's more like acetylcholine, testosterone, dht, and all these pathways in the brain/gut etc. and their receptors and sensitivity

But from those articles you can see it's about balance and that yes, there are behaviors you can pinpoint from hormonal changes.

You can say high dopamine is good and low dopamine isn't. It's a bit of a generalization since it depends on what brain regions we're talking about but everybody knows what behaviors we're talking about. Motivation, drive, clear thinking, etc. with high dopamine. Apathy, low motivation, depression, etc. with low dopamine. This is easier to understand than saying high dopamine in the striatum or nucleus accumbens. I'd say personification helps break down these topics to someone who isn't familiar with them or hasn't gone in depth in trying to understand it. Personifying states the mind is helpful in identifying behaviors in ourselves and being able to change it. It has helped me in the past and will later as I continue to try to understand it

LSD raises dopamine and lowers serotonin which is a more optimal state to be in.

Dr. Peat says LSD
"Research on LSD and its derivatives led to drugs such as bromocriptine, which oppose the effects of histamine and estrogen. Some of bromocriptine’s effects are clearly antagonistic to serotonin, though bromocriptine is usually called a “dopamine agonist”; dopamine is pretty generally a serotonin antagonist. Methysergide, a related drug with antiserotonin activity, is effective in protecting the brain from the effects of strokes. But there is a general disinclination to understand the broad biological meaning of these effects.

I think the corrupt campaign against LSD played a large role in this: If the therapeutic value of LSD and related drugs (e.g., methysergide) with expired patents,*note2 used as antiserotonin agents, became widely known, the existing system of power and profit would be threatened. The war on drugs has always had its ulterior motives,including justifying domestic and foreign interventions in issues that have nothing to do with drugs. And in the case of the serotonin/antiserotonin mythology, this “war” has been rewarding to the drug industry--Lilly makes over $2 billion annually on Prozac. Each suicide caused by Prozac would appear to be balanced by several hundred thousand dollars earned by the corporation. If the war on drugs were serious, this would be a good place to start. And in weighing what corporate punishments might be appropriate, this corporation’s financial support for universal capital punishment should be taken into account. Many experiments have shown that estrogen is very important for aggressive behavior in animals, and estrogen promotes serotonin’s actions. Some research shows that increased serotonin is associated with certain types of increased aggressiveness, and antiserotonin agents decrease aggresiveness (Ieni, et al., 1985; McMillen, et al., 1987) but the clearest research has to do with the crucial role of serotonin in learned helplessness. Learned helplessness is a biological condition that is created by inescapable stress. In this state, animals that would normally swim for hours will stop swimming after a few minutes and allow themselves to drown. They simply don’t have enough mental or physical energy to overcome challenges."

I understand it's manmade and not directly from the earth. But neither is bromocriptine, lisuride, metergoline. Those are sold as drugs too
We're from the earth and been given the capacity to form these molecules. Is that not natural? We didn't artificially change ourselves to be able to create these substances. Our fear of them come from societies/other peoples rules on them and dangerous effects of bad ones like ssri drugs, poisions etc. @redsun

My personal experience and what I see with OP is that in a state of higher dopamine the boundaries imposed by society aren't automatically absorbed and enforced by that individual. He/she has free thinking and can see if these ideologies truly hold weight. It is a higher form of being and it's something to strive towards not put down. When you're truly energetic and your body is warm. When your thoughts are crystal clear and can be handled to focus on a task at hand, I seriously can't see how you have time/desire to be racist/bigot/homophobic. Everything is a learning opportunity and more novelty is better whether it's from a book or a person with a different upbringing. OP's realization seems high dopamine to me. Idk about you guys. I didn't like the attack on the forum as a whole, but it wasn't a big deal in comparison to his change in perception. Lmk what you think

 

[KTownSatfats]

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think anybody is against that

The High Serotonin Personality » TESTONATION

Serotonin is a complicated neurotransmitter that, contrary to other neurotransmitters, has an influence on everything in the body. It’s currently believed to aid in anxiety, depression, impatience, impulsiveness, anger, etc. One of the main reasons for this is that the metabolite of serotonin...

men-elite.com

Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

Serotonin research is relatively new, but it rivals estrogen research for the level of incompetence and apparent fraudulent intent that can be found in professional publications. This is partly because of the involvement of the drug industry, but the U.S. government also played a role in setting...

raypeat.com

I don't think OP really meant "serotonin paranoia" as a real thing. Just a way to say high serotonin. I could be wrong

If you read this two articles, it's clear there are neurotransmitters/hormones that increase/decrease in result of stress and cause aging/breakdown of an organism. Dysregulation is a state where hormones/neurotransmitters/other molecules in organs like liver, thyroid, thymus etc. change to an imbalanced state that leaves an organism weaker. In a state of greater stress in the brain, serotonin is high and dopamine is lower. It's not just the molecules themselves, it's their balance with others that's important. There's of course more involved and more we haven't figured out. But we have an idea of what it looks like as a whole in the body "high serotonin, prolactin, cortisol, adrenaline. low thyroid, high estrogen" versus "high dopamine, low prolactin, lowered cortisol, higher gaba to glutamate, thyroid, high progesterone". Is it that simple? No there's more like acetylcholine, testosterone, dht, and all these pathways in the brain/gut etc. and their receptors and sensitivity

But from those articles you can see it's about balance and that yes, there are behaviors you can pinpoint from hormonal changes.

You can say high dopamine is good and low dopamine isn't. It's a bit of a generalization since it depends on what brain regions we're talking about but everybody knows what behaviors we're talking about. Motivation, drive, clear thinking, etc. with high dopamine. Apathy, low motivation, depression, etc. with low dopamine. This is easier to understand than saying high dopamine in the striatum or nucleus accumbens. I'd say personification helps break down these topics to someone who isn't familiar with them or hasn't gone in depth in trying to understand it. Personifying states neurochemistry of the mind is helpful in identifying behaviors in ourselves and being able to change it. It has helped me in the past and will later as I continue to try to understand it

LSD raises dopamine and lowers serotonin which is a more optimal state to be in.

Dr. Peat says LSD
"Research on LSD and its derivatives led to drugs such as bromocriptine, which oppose the effects of histamine and estrogen. Some of bromocriptine’s effects are clearly antagonistic to serotonin, though bromocriptine is usually called a “dopamine agonist”; dopamine is pretty generally a serotonin antagonist. Methysergide, a related drug with antiserotonin activity, is effective in protecting the brain from the effects of strokes. But there is a general disinclination to understand the broad biological meaning of these effects.

I think the corrupt campaign against LSD played a large role in this: If the therapeutic value of LSD and related drugs (e.g., methysergide) with expired patents,*note2 used as antiserotonin agents, became widely known, the existing system of power and profit would be threatened. The war on drugs has always had its ulterior motives,including justifying domestic and foreign interventions in issues that have nothing to do with drugs. And in the case of the serotonin/antiserotonin mythology, this “war” has been rewarding to the drug industry--Lilly makes over $2 billion annually on Prozac. Each suicide caused by Prozac would appear to be balanced by several hundred thousand dollars earned by the corporation. If the war on drugs were serious, this would be a good place to start. And in weighing what corporate punishments might be appropriate, this corporation’s financial support for universal capital punishment should be taken into account. Many experiments have shown that estrogen is very important for aggressive behavior in animals, and estrogen promotes serotonin’s actions. Some research shows that increased serotonin is associated with certain types of increased aggressiveness, and antiserotonin agents decrease aggresiveness (Ieni, et al., 1985; McMillen, et al., 1987) but the clearest research has to do with the crucial role of serotonin in learned helplessness. Learned helplessness is a biological condition that is created by inescapable stress. In this state, animals that would normally swim for hours will stop swimming after a few minutes and allow themselves to drown. They simply don’t have enough mental or physical energy to overcome challenges."

I understand it's manmade and not directly from the earth. But neither is bromocriptine, lisuride, metergoline. Those are sold as drugs too
We're from the earth and been given the capacity to form these molecules. Is that not natural? We didn't artificially change ourselves to be able to create these substances. Our fear of them come from societies/other peoples rules on them and dangerous effects of bad ones like ssri drugs, poisions etc. @redsun

My personal experience and what I see with OP is that in a state of higher dopamine the boundaries imposed by society aren't automatically absorbed and enforced by that individual. He/she has free thinking and can see if these ideologies truly hold weight. It is a higher form of being and it's something to strive towards not put down. When you're truly energetic and your body is warm. When your thoughts are crystal clear and can be handled to focus on a task at hand, I seriously can't see how you have time/desire to be racist/bigot/homophobic. Everything is a learning opportunity and more novelty is better whether it's from a book or a person with a different upbringing. OP's realization seems high dopamine to me. Idk about you guys. I didn't like the attack on the forum as a whole, but it wasn't a big deal in comparison to his change in perception. Lmk what you think

Well thought out. Thank you. You say OP’s realization seems high dopamine to you. You may know more about that than I. We’ll see what others think. But the attack on the forum seems like an undesirable mental and emotional state to me. All I’m saying is if that’s what high dopamine is all about, I’m a little leery. Some of his realization seemed quite nice, but then his actual actions, an attack, smacked of inflated ego. Not sure what exactly to make of it.

 

[ChemHead]

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think anybody is against that

Well, certainly no one should be. However that sentiment was not implied in OP's initial post. I don't like seeing bickering or nastiness in any form, but I understand it's just part of what comes along with an intellectually competitive environment. When I see things that offend me I don't create a thread implying that everyone else is responsible for me being unhappy because I have control over what I consume. If I don't like religious discussion, I just avoid it. I don't go around complaining that there are people talking about religion and implying that they're bad people.. That they're homophobic and bigoted because they have a particular religious belief.

When you play in a sandbox full of people that may have views that are the polar opposite of what you hold, you don't get to complain about it... as if someone with authority should do something to exterminate all ideas that aren't yours. If you want an echo chamber, get your own sandbox and only allow people you approve today participate.

With regard to serotonin, I'm not going to deny that there's a clinically validated connection between higher serotonin levels and depression, anger, psychotic tendencies, etc. The problem I have is that when people on forums find this type of information, they start discussing ways to directly influence serotonin levels (usually with pharmaceuticals). However, just because high serotonin may be associated with depression, anxiety, etc., doesn't mean that it's actually causing those issues. Higher serotonin may simply just be one resulting marker of the actual underlying conditions that are causing the behavior. I don't like seeing everything painted with such a broad brush. It's short-sighted and foolish to think that way and I think the biggest issue is when that information gets generationally inherited. For example, what's the first thing that comes to mind when you see the word estrogen? For most people, they probably think "female hormone". This is a huge problem imo because it's so much more complex thank that. And yet, we have doctors and medical professionals out there who see things like this from such a narrow perspective at a very early stage in life. Now, if they had never inherited this idea of labeling estrogens as female hormones, that preconceived notion wouldn't cloud their thinking and get in the way of objective analysis and they might be led to greater understanding of complex biochemical phenomena.

 

[KTownSatfats]

Well, certainly no one should be. However that sentiment was not implied in OP's initial post. I don't like seeing bickering or nastiness in any form, but I understand it's just part of what comes along with an intellectually competitive environment. When I see things that offend me I don't create a thread implying that everyone else is responsible for me being unhappy because I have control over what I consume. If I don't like religious discussion, I just avoid it. I don't go around complaining that there are people talking about religion and implying that they're bad people.. That they're homophobic and bigoted because they have a particular religious belief.

When you play in a sandbox full of people that may have views that are the polar opposite of what you hold, you don't get to complain about it... as if someone with authority should do something to exterminate all ideas that aren't yours. If you want an echo chamber, get your own sandbox and only allow people you approve today participate.

With regard to serotonin, I'm not going to deny that there's a clinically validated connection between higher serotonin levels and depression, anger, psychotic tendencies, etc. The problem I have is that when people on forums find this type of information, they start discussing ways to directly influence serotonin levels (usually with pharmaceuticals). However, just because high serotonin may be associated with depression, anxiety, etc., doesn't mean that it's actually causing those issues. Higher serotonin may simply just be one resulting marker of the actual underlying conditions that are causing the behavior. I don't like seeing everything painted with such a broad brush. It's short-sighted and foolish to think that way and I think the biggest issue is when that information gets generationally inherited. For example, what's the first thing that comes to mind when you see the word estrogen? For most people, they probably think "female hormone". This is a huge problem imo because it's so much more complex thank that. And yet, we have doctors and medical professionals out there who see things like this from such a narrow perspective at a very early stage in life. Now, if they had never inherited this idea of labeling estrogens as female hormones, that preconceived notion wouldn't cloud their thinking and get in the way of objective analysis and they might be led to greater understanding of complex biochemical phenomena.

Brilliant.

 

[akgrrrl]

Brilliant.

Yes. Is'nt Ray Pear Forum wonderful?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Psychedelics don't show you any outside information, they can just make you reorganize the information you already have in your head.

Spot on.

Ecclesiastes 1:8-11
[8] All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
[11] There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

 

[koreus]

@Quelsatron kek, I'm taking that Peat wojak

 

[yerrag]

Spot on.

Ecclesiastes 1:8-11
[8] All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
[11] There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

You have the tao in you!