Does tying the hair back into a bun or ponytail reduce serotonin relative to wearing the hair down ?

[JamesGatz]

I was looking at a few studies:

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.

www.discovermagazine.com

​

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.​

"They found that men (but not women) were more likely to help the women with their hair down"


I notice that when my sister has her hair tied up vs when she lets her hair down - her skin and hair look a lot better all things being equal and she seems to exhibit low-serotonin traits

I was thinking of this in relation to the study - I know that I usually feel more inclined to help someone I see as higher-serotonin - I'm not sure why I think it is usually because I see they cannot relax so I think my calm demeanor helps them stay more at-ease - I think I like seeing a woman with her hair tied back but she also seems to be "mentally stronger" when she does this. A couple of real-world examples:

With Hair Down:

With Hair up:

Although this is the same woman at varying ages - if you notice her skin, hair, and bone structure all look significantly better when she has the hair tied back. I know when my serotonin is low - the same happens where my bone structure becomes a lot bigger and more defined

A couple of examples of men who do this :

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Zlatan is one of the most low-serotonin players I've ever seen play - the man says anything and banters with anyone on the field and his hallmark has always been his hair tied back into a bun

A couple of more examples:

Hair down:

Same women - hair up or tied back:

Extremely noticeable difference - she looks a lot more relaxed and her bone structure looks a lot more defined with this hairstyle

Another example:

Hair Down:

Hair tied:

All things being equal - 10/10 times I find a women with her hair tied back or tied up more attractive - what do people on this forum think especially the women of this forum ? What effects do you feel when you tie the hair back ? It seems to confirm with my sister but I cannot tie my hair back as of yet to experiment because it is not long enough but I plan on experimenting in the future - I feel like there has to be some type of effect on the brain which to me looks like lower serotonin​

 

[miquelangeles]

I think most men prefer submissive women, and women who tie their hair are more confident and dominant.
Similarly, you are more likely to help someone who looks "vulnerable" rather than confident.

 

[milkboi]

I think most men prefer submissive women, and women who tie their hair are more confident and dominant.
Similarly, you are more likely to help someone who looks "vulnerable" rather than confident.

This. I think the decision to wear a ponytail is most likely a product of a woman's mood/brain chemistry - she wants to get ***t done and not spend hours making her hair - and not the other way around

 

[ursidae]

The changes in skin tightness have nothing to do with serotonin. The hair being pulled back pulls the skin tighter as well. This purely mechanical face lift takes care of any sagging skin and reveals the underlying bone structure. This is why they look better. When I’m not inclined to wear a pony tail but I still do it to prevent my hair getting in the way I still get this lifting effect.

 

[JamesGatz]

I think most men prefer submissive women, and women who tie their hair are more confident and dominant.
Similarly, you are more likely to help someone who looks "vulnerable" rather than confident.

I agree - I notice if i see a women do it in front of me there seems to be a difference - i think the question here that is good to ask is that if the effect working vice-versa

The changes in skin tightness have nothing to do with serotonin. The hair being pulled back pulls the skin tighter as well. This purely mechanical face lift takes care of any sagging skin and reveals the underlying bone structure. This is why they look better. When I’m not inclined to wear a pony tail but I still do it to prevent my hair getting in the way I still get this lifting effect.

Even if this is true what you are saying - i think it is assumptive to say it has no effect on serotonin - if serotonin lowers because the skin tightens or because the hair is tied back the serotonin is still lowered at the end of the day

This is pictures of the same man - same time period - complete difference in look and mood - he looks a lot more confident on the right and it's not even close - i watch interviews with him and 10/10 times when his hair is tied he is far more confident in himself and has a low-serotonin attitude - i think there is a real effect in mood occurring personally and i think it is possible for this effect to work vice-versa

 

[aliml]

Hair-grooming syncope

Hair-grooming syncope (also known as hair-combing syncope) is a form of syncope (a fainting disorder) associated with combing and brushing one's hair. It is most typically seen in children aged five to sixteen.

Hair-grooming syncope typically manifests as presyncopal symptoms during hair combing, brushing, braiding, trimming, curling or blow drying. These symptoms are followed by loss of consciousness and sometimes convulsions. Migraines, abdominal pain, "feeling funny" or blurred vision may also occur before or after seizures. Possible causes of the condition include pain or nerve stimulation on the scalp (similar to parade-ground syncope), or compression of blood vessels or nerves resulting from neck flexion or extension. A 2009 study identified 111 pediatric cases of hair-grooming syncope in the United States, almost three-quarters of which were in female patients; that study found that the condition is most associated with hair cutting in males and brushing in females.

Hair-grooming syncope may be misdiagnosed as epilepsy, but is better described as a "paroxysmal non-epileptic event". It may also be related to orthostatic hypotension. The condition is not associated with heart abnormalities.

Hair-grooming syncope - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Serotonergic mechanisms play a major role in the processes leading to neurocardiogenic vasovagal syncope

 

[JamesGatz]

Hair-grooming syncope

Hair-grooming syncope (also known as hair-combing syncope) is a form of syncope (a fainting disorder) associated with combing and brushing one's hair. It is most typically seen in children aged five to sixteen.

Hair-grooming syncope typically manifests as presyncopal symptoms during hair combing, brushing, braiding, trimming, curling or blow drying. These symptoms are followed by loss of consciousness and sometimes convulsions. Migraines, abdominal pain, "feeling funny" or blurred vision may also occur before or after seizures. Possible causes of the condition include pain or nerve stimulation on the scalp (similar to parade-ground syncope), or compression of blood vessels or nerves resulting from neck flexion or extension. A 2009 study identified 111 pediatric cases of hair-grooming syncope in the United States, almost three-quarters of which were in female patients; that study found that the condition is most associated with hair cutting in males and brushing in females.

Hair-grooming syncope may be misdiagnosed as epilepsy, but is better described as a "paroxysmal non-epileptic event". It may also be related to orthostatic hypotension. The condition is not associated with heart abnormalities.

Hair-grooming syncope - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Serotonergic mechanisms play a major role in the processes leading to neurocardiogenic vasovagal syncope

Very interesting - I am looking this up now - so hair grooming seems to have some negative effects that may be associated with serotonin ... I'm thinking about this and notice that girls don't play with their hair too much pr try to do some other stuff with it if it's tied back however if it's down I see them play with it or doing funny stuff with it all the time - very interesting thoughts...

 

[miquelangeles]

I agree - I notice if i see a women do it in front of me there seems to be a difference - i think the question here that is good to ask is that if the effect working vice-versa



Even if this is true what you are saying - i think it is assumptive to say it has no effect on serotonin - if serotonin lowers because the skin tightens or because the hair is tied back the serotonin is still lowered at the end of the day

View attachment 30144View attachment 30145

This is pictures of the same man - same time period - complete difference in look and mood - he looks a lot more confident on the right and it's not even close - i watch interviews with him and 10/10 times when his hair is tied he is far more confident in himself and has a low-serotonin attitude - i think there is a real effect in mood occurring personally and i think it is possible for this effect to work vice-versa

Not sure if serotonin is really involved in the effects of tied hair.

It likely plays a role in hair-grooming syncope, because scratching causes the brain to release serotonin.

But with the pony tail it may simply be that it tightens the skin, raises the corners of the eyes and narrows them (hunter eyes) which mimics a high androgen status. Akin to the thread lift procedures which are very popular nowadays, due to the innovations in suture material.

 

[angelina]

Interesting topic. When I read the haigrooming syncope I thought of something to add. My cousin and I were once swapping stories about little things we hated and I was telling her how much I hate when my hair is wet. She started telling me that when she brushes her hair (she has big, long curly hair) that everyone has to get away from her and not talk to her because she felt raging anger while brushing it out. When my daughter is removing her braids (she has ethnic hair) she also isolates and is miserable. I don't know what this is, but just thought it was relevant. There is certainly something more to this work.

 

[xeliex]

@JamesGatz

Always interesting thoughts and topics. Keep em coming.

No 2 cents, just pat on your back.

 

[Metabawlic]

First thing to consider, hair tied back is a practical consideration. If I'm eating or exercising or dancing, I need my hair to not be in my face.

Second thing, grooming and hair health. No matter the style you can typically tell groomed from ungroomed hair once you've had long hair. Healthy animals groom themselves. Thin hair is going to make you look unhealthier in general.

Third thing, volume. Wavy hair is primarily from electrical charge and minerals. Which means you need to be in a high energy state with abundant micronutrients to look good with wavy hair. Otherwise you may be inclined to tie it back. Note curly doesn't mean wavy there is a difference.

Personally, I let it flow when I'm dressing up and want to look good. I tie it in a bun to keep it out of my face for most activities. I tie it in a ponytail if I'm doing something a bit edgier such as fighting or hunting.

 

[RealNeat]

I was looking at a few studies:

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.

www.discovermagazine.com

​

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.​

"They found that men (but not women) were more likely to help the women with their hair down"


I notice that when my sister has her hair tied up vs when she lets her hair down - her skin and hair look a lot better all things being equal and she seems to exhibit low-serotonin traits

I was thinking of this in relation to the study - I know that I usually feel more inclined to help someone I see as higher-serotonin - I'm not sure why I think it is usually because I see they cannot relax so I think my calm demeanor helps them stay more at-ease - I think I like seeing a woman with her hair tied back but she also seems to be "mentally stronger" when she does this. A couple of real-world examples:

With Hair Down:

View attachment 30130View attachment 30131


With Hair up:

View attachment 30132View attachment 30133

Although this is the same woman at varying ages - if you notice her skin, hair, and bone structure all look significantly better when she has the hair tied back. I know when my serotonin is low - the same happens where my bone structure becomes a lot bigger and more defined

A couple of examples of men who do this :

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

View attachment 30135

Zlatan is one of the most low-serotonin players I've ever seen play - the man says anything and banters with anyone on the field and his hallmark has always been his hair tied back into a bun

A couple of more examples:

Hair down:

View attachment 30136

Same women - hair up or tied back:

View attachment 30138View attachment 30142

Extremely noticeable difference - she looks a lot more relaxed and her bone structure looks a lot more defined with this hairstyle

Another example:

Hair Down:
View attachment 30140

Hair tied:

View attachment 30141

All things being equal - 10/10 times I find a women with her hair tied back or tied up more attractive - what do people on this forum think especially the women of this forum ? What effects do you feel when you tie the hair back ? It seems to confirm with my sister but I cannot tie my hair back as of yet to experiment because it is not long enough but I plan on experimenting in the future - I feel like there has to be some type of effect on the brain which to me looks like lower serotonin​

It's seldom I find hair up attractive. When I had long hair and tied it back I noticed my hair line wasn't as attractive and disturbed looking as opposed to letting it flow.

 

[Metabawlic]

Think back to some healthy traditional societies and their men, and there's evidence there's a spectrum between having your hair down -> bun -> ponytail in terms of lifestyle.

Medieval knights and rulers let their hair flow as commonly depicted in art. Europe had a benevolent aristocracy with an ingrained concept of noblesse oblige. The lower class valued and respected their rulers and vice versa with God being on top. Christian values include cleanliness, charity, and forgiveness. Not necessarily traits of bloodthirsty killers.

The Samurai wore a topknot and cutting was considered a complete disgrace. These were real men who would risk their lives and kill others on command. They use a topknot to keep their helmet in place. Samurai were notoriously focused on appearance even wearing makeup. One would imagine a more rugged Samurai if they had a ponytail.

The spartans had a ponytail they'd fit through their helmet. Spartans were famously tough warriors who could strike fear into armies 10x their size. Extremely rugged, ascetic, and in excellent shape. Spartans with topknot would have probably produced more art & architecture.

The Manchu were steppe archers who conquered China and wore a Qing which is a form of ponytail meant to keep your hair out of your face when trying to shoot a bow from a horse. Steppe nomads are rugged and unforgiving people used to the harshest environments and most barren of provisions. Steppe societies have committed some of the deadliest genocides on the face of the planet and always had a love for war and violence.

 

[JamesGatz]

Think back to some healthy traditional societies and their men, and there's evidence there's a spectrum between having your hair down -> bun -> ponytail in terms of lifestyle.

Medieval knights and rulers let their hair flow as commonly depicted in art. Europe had a benevolent aristocracy with an ingrained concept of noblesse oblige. The lower class valued and respected their rulers and vice versa with God being on top. Christian values include cleanliness, charity, and forgiveness. Not necessarily traits of bloodthirsty killers.

The Samurai wore a topknot and cutting was considered a complete disgrace. These were real men who would risk their lives and kill others on command. They use a topknot to keep their helmet in place. Samurai were notoriously focused on appearance even wearing makeup. One would imagine a more rugged Samurai if they had a ponytail.

The spartans had a ponytail they'd fit through their helmet. Spartans were famously tough warriors who could strike fear into armies 10x their size. Extremely rugged, ascetic, and in excellent shape. Spartans with topknot would have probably produced more art & architecture.

The Manchu were steppe archers who conquered China and wore a Qing which is a form of ponytail meant to keep your hair out of your face when trying to shoot a bow from a horse. Steppe nomads are rugged and unforgiving people used to the harshest environments and most barren of provisions. Steppe societies have committed some of the deadliest genocides on the face of the planet and always had a love for war and violence.

Very Interesting - I'm thinking about courage in the battlefield especially with Spartans - their formations were extremely organized and their armies were notoriously courageous - I'm thinking one should be low-serotonin in this state - to be able to look death in the eye and stay calm enough to remain in formation no matter what next to men who are doing the same - I know that if I was ever in maybe a street fight or someone was trying to jump me I would rather be low-serotonin than anything else cause I feel somewhat invincible in this state

I'm also thinking of the Archers - one should definitely be low-serotonin for shooting accuracy for shooting weapons - that's how I view the subject based on my experience - I need to be relaxed so that my hands don't move when firing the weapon - I also feel my eyesight get a lot better when my serotonin is low - it's like I notice things in people and in things that I don't before

 

[JamesGatz]

@JamesGatz

Always interesting thoughts and topics. Keep em coming.

No 2 cents, just pat on your back.

Thanks haha - the smartest people I've met in my life have been on this forum - anytime I notice something in the real world or think of something interesting there's always someone on here that knows about it so i bring it here

 

[Eberhardt]

Think back to some healthy traditional societies and their men, and there's evidence there's a spectrum between having your hair down -> bun -> ponytail in terms of lifestyle.

Medieval knights and rulers let their hair flow as commonly depicted in art. Europe had a benevolent aristocracy with an ingrained concept of noblesse oblige. The lower class valued and respected their rulers and vice versa with God being on top. Christian values include cleanliness, charity, and forgiveness. Not necessarily traits of bloodthirsty killers.

The Samurai wore a topknot and cutting was considered a complete disgrace. These were real men who would risk their lives and kill others on command. They use a topknot to keep their helmet in place. Samurai were notoriously focused on appearance even wearing makeup. One would imagine a more rugged Samurai if they had a ponytail.

The spartans had a ponytail they'd fit through their helmet. Spartans were famously tough warriors who could strike fear into armies 10x their size. Extremely rugged, ascetic, and in excellent shape. Spartans with topknot would have probably produced more art & architecture.

The Manchu were steppe archers who conquered China and wore a Qing which is a form of ponytail meant to keep your hair out of your face when trying to shoot a bow from a horse. Steppe nomads are rugged and unforgiving people used to the harshest environments and most barren of provisions. Steppe societies have committed some of the deadliest genocides on the face of the planet and always had a love for war and violence.

Not sure if I catch your point. Is this an example of it being related or not (except the obvious - that if you do physical stuff you need to see and your hair not to get tangled. )? I assume you are aware of the wide variety of hairstyles across the globe and time among both hunters and warriors.

 

[Marcine]

Well, this got me thinking. Sidenote: when women want/need/go thru a change in their life, they change their hair. We're changing our identity so we need to see ourselves as different I suppose. Hair is a statement to the outside world and since this is related to our emotional state this theory sort of makes sense. I recently recovered, mostly, from Hashi's, as well as had my soul saved and changed my hair from wearing it up in a crunchie topknot for decades (for simplicity) I had it cut and have been pincurling it for volume and curl for several months. I think it reflects the liberation I have with Jesus, the total freedom and confidence, the peace. Serotonin could def be involved. Interesting speculation.

 

[Dr. B]

I was looking at a few studies:

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.

www.discovermagazine.com

​

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.​

"They found that men (but not women) were more likely to help the women with their hair down"


I notice that when my sister has her hair tied up vs when she lets her hair down - her skin and hair look a lot better all things being equal and she seems to exhibit low-serotonin traits

I was thinking of this in relation to the study - I know that I usually feel more inclined to help someone I see as higher-serotonin - I'm not sure why I think it is usually because I see they cannot relax so I think my calm demeanor helps them stay more at-ease - I think I like seeing a woman with her hair tied back but she also seems to be "mentally stronger" when she does this. A couple of real-world examples:

With Hair Down:

View attachment 30130View attachment 30131


With Hair up:

View attachment 30132View attachment 30133

Although this is the same woman at varying ages - if you notice her skin, hair, and bone structure all look significantly better when she has the hair tied back. I know when my serotonin is low - the same happens where my bone structure becomes a lot bigger and more defined

A couple of examples of men who do this :

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

View attachment 30135

Zlatan is one of the most low-serotonin players I've ever seen play - the man says anything and banters with anyone on the field and his hallmark has always been his hair tied back into a bun

A couple of more examples:

Hair down:

View attachment 30136

Same women - hair up or tied back:

View attachment 30138View attachment 30142

Extremely noticeable difference - she looks a lot more relaxed and her bone structure looks a lot more defined with this hairstyle

Another example:

Hair Down:
View attachment 30140

Hair tied:

View attachment 30141

All things being equal - 10/10 times I find a women with her hair tied back or tied up more attractive - what do people on this forum think especially the women of this forum ? What effects do you feel when you tie the hair back ? It seems to confirm with my sister but I cannot tie my hair back as of yet to experiment because it is not long enough but I plan on experimenting in the future - I feel like there has to be some type of effect on the brain which to me looks like lower serotonin​

those pics seem to have the hair tightly pulled back, that would quickly change the skin and cause that face lifting effect. its possible in the long term, like having hair tied up for hours, would lead to lower serotonin due to the hair not being as distracting or stressful. people who straighten their hair or style it with something have to take extra precaution, play with it often, stress if it rains out, possibly apply harmful/estrogenic products to it whereas you dont have to worry as much with it tied up tightly. if the facial changes happen immediately after tying the hair up then its more related to the mechanics of pulling the hair leading to the skin looking better. there's all kinds of contortions you can do to temporarily look better. for instance chubby faces can develop sharp looking cheekbones and look noticeably better from doing that duck face pose many people do on social media.

 

[JamesGatz]

I strongly believe this thread still holds true for the mere fact of the response of the nerve endings at the ends of the hair follicles would suggest that keeping hair more stationary in a bun or ponytail would keep serotonin low compared to wearing it down:

The evolutionary importance of hair and why brushing/combing is detrimental to your health

I was introduced to the Hair Grooming Syncope by users on another thread I made and also to the face that bothering the scalp (massaging, brushing, combing, etc) increases serotonin: its a phenomenon where people faint, have migraines, have seizures while having their hair groomed...

raypeatforum.com

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

I was looking at a few studies:

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.

www.discovermagazine.com

​

Study finds that men are less likely to help a woman with a ponytail.​

"They found that men (but not women) were more likely to help the women with their hair down"


I notice that when my sister has her hair tied up vs when she lets her hair down - her skin and hair look a lot better all things being equal and she seems to exhibit low-serotonin traits

I was thinking of this in relation to the study - I know that I usually feel more inclined to help someone I see as higher-serotonin - I'm not sure why I think it is usually because I see they cannot relax so I think my calm demeanor helps them stay more at-ease - I think I like seeing a woman with her hair tied back but she also seems to be "mentally stronger" when she does this. A couple of real-world examples:

With Hair Down:

View attachment 30130View attachment 30131


With Hair up:

View attachment 30132View attachment 30133

Although this is the same woman at varying ages - if you notice her skin, hair, and bone structure all look significantly better when she has the hair tied back. I know when my serotonin is low - the same happens where my bone structure becomes a lot bigger and more defined

A couple of examples of men who do this :

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

View attachment 30135

Zlatan is one of the most low-serotonin players I've ever seen play - the man says anything and banters with anyone on the field and his hallmark has always been his hair tied back into a bun

A couple of more examples:

Hair down:

View attachment 30136

Same women - hair up or tied back:

View attachment 30138View attachment 30142

Extremely noticeable difference - she looks a lot more relaxed and her bone structure looks a lot more defined with this hairstyle

Another example:

Hair Down:
View attachment 30140

Hair tied:

View attachment 30141

All things being equal - 10/10 times I find a women with her hair tied back or tied up more attractive - what do people on this forum think especially the women of this forum ? What effects do you feel when you tie the hair back ? It seems to confirm with my sister but I cannot tie my hair back as of yet to experiment because it is not long enough but I plan on experimenting in the future - I feel like there has to be some type of effect on the brain which to me looks like lower serotonin​

Being that ponytails have suddenly become a topic of interest on the forum, I thought I’d respond ( gee, did I have something to do with that ?)

Ponytails…I think you are over analyzing this. The reason we women wear ponytails at times is because, when your hair is long, it falls in your face when you are exercizing, or running around doing activities or whatever. It just gets in the way at times. That’s pretty much it.
It’s half and half…half the time my hair is up and half the time it’s down. And sometimes you can swat people with your ponytail.

Just kidding….or am I?

Right other forum ladies?

Now pardon me as I go tie my hair up to cook. Nothing is worse than having your hair in what you are trying to cook.