Is there a Peaty explanation for why I can't gain muscle and strength?

[DSmith]

I know this isn't a bodybuilding forum, but there are a lot of fit folks here with far better RP knowledge than me that might be able to help. I was inspired to post this after reading an insane body transformation post by a forum user.

I'm a late 20's male, a bit over 6ft tall, around 185lbs who has been lifting for 9 years. My best deadlift is 315lbs for 1 rep in 2018. My best bench press is 160lbs for 2 reps in 2017. Best squat is 235 lbs for 5 reps in 2021. Best overhead press is 105lbs for 5 reps in 2020. I'm really embarrassed by my performance.

I've spent thousands of hours over the past decade consuming fitness and nutrition content via YouTube, various blogs in the internet, and numerous books. Yet during this period, I've made no progress in the gym. I can't get strong. I don't gain any muscle. It's like my body just won't adapt to any stimulus I give it.

I've run several "bulks" in the past where I'll gain significant weight (I've done +20lbs in 2 months on several occasions) but I don't gain any muscle or strength; my lifts stall at these pathetically low levels and all the bodyweight gain goes to my love handles. I've spent most of these years tracking everything religiously in a spreadsheet - workouts (Starting Strength, 5/3/1, nSuns, Super Squats, U/L, PPL, and more), food intake (I own 3 food scales), etc.

Yet I've trained with so many guys over the years that don't track at all, just show up at the gym, progressively overload the barbell compound lifts, eat McDonalds, and show very visible muscle gains within 3-6 months. Hell, I know an average height/weight girl that deadlifts more than me after only 3 years of training.

I've always wanted to look like I lift, so my failure in this regard really messes with my psyche. I have no health conditions that I am aware of and wonder if there isn't something Peaty-related I could be missing. Any help/advice appreciated.

Could be you are an ectomorph and naturally don't gain either fat or muscle. For that type less is more.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Thank you for taking the time to write this up, this is brilliant. Gives me a lot to think about.

What's your caffeine intake?
When did you have braces?
When did you have your wisdom teeth taken out?

I've experimented with zero caffeine for long periods of time (on the order of months) and as much as two 8oz cups of coffee in the morning. Doesn't seem to impact my sleep either way. I had braces around 14y/o. I think my wisdom teeth were taken out around age 16y/o.

Look to see if you can sleep on your back. Most people, even if they're side sleepers may start on their back and then auto-rotate onto their side once they start to drift off to sleep. If they try to sleep on their back, they'll start to snore and likely not be able to breath well and then shift to their side or stomach. This pattern can be in existence since a child, and the person, the organism compensates unknowingly, they are unconscious of the anatomical adjustments they make during the day and night to compensate for a smaller airway. It's something they've always accommodated, so it's not something that stands out as out of the ordinary. Having high cortisol can result in fat accumulation in undesirable locations and low muscle tone. In this circumstance, developing a workout regimen to build muscle would further exacerbate and underlying catabolic condition and it would becomes virtually impossible to compensate for the increased energy expenditure of muscle building. For some people, the down regulated metabolism can lead to weight gain in the absence of increased physical activity. For some people, they combat the weight gain that may come from a down regulated metabolism with reduce calorie intake or increased physical activity. The increased physical activity keeps most of the fat off because the physical activity is driving a lot of fat metabolism so they burn fat regularly. It's a lot to unpack if this applies.

This is a very fascinating angle I hadn't considered. I've always struggled with thick love handles, it makes sense that the additional exercise/dieting used to combat this only served to make the problem worse. I'm going to try sleeping on my back tonight.

Your delayed sleep onset and disrupted sleep are definitely indicators you have chronic background stress and its influencing your body building efforts. Your efforts will continue to be thwarted without addressing the sleep. Hopefully your situation is all lifestyle and not anatomical. In the event its unclear if its lifestyle or anatomical, a sleep study would be warranted. Getting a referral from your GP to a sleep medicine provider would be a good step to consult for a home sleep study (e.g., Snap Diagnostics), which is a typical fist step if you have qualifying symptoms. A sleep medicine provider will ask you about delayed sleep onset, disrupted sleep, excessive daytime sleepiness, naps, falling asleep while driving or dozing off while at a red-light, etc. You might be surprised.

Very useful actionable advice.

Back to DK Metcalf, he can eat mostly carbs because his metabolism is functioning at such a high level, his need for protein is reduced due to high carb intake, his anatomy is allowing him to hold-on to a lot of CO2 and using oxygen efficiently and avoid hypoxia during extreme exertion. It'd be interesting to monitor his breathing during a 90 yard sprint; I bet he could use nose breathing for most of a sprint it if not all of it. He's a beast on the field. I would think that his large jaws and large upper airway are contributing factors to his strength and development and his seemingly odd diet, especially compared to the likes of someone like TB12 or Lebron (extreme examples).

I looked up DK and his candy diet. Dude is a specimen, that's for sure. Is there any actionable advice to be gained from studying him? I can try to practice good habits like mewing and the like, but I'm probably not going to be able to grow my jaw size or airway at this point. Is the takeaway to increase carbs/decrease fats as a way to "heal" my metabolism?

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

3x5 probably isn't enough volume for muscle growth, start doing 4x12-15 and add accessory exercises focus on time under tension hit each muscle group 3 times a week.

That wasn't the program, I was just explaining where my strength is at right now. I listed some example program in my OP, of course my volume is much higher.

High T
High DHT
Moderate estrogen
Low Prolactin
High T3
Low Insulin

= Good Physique

Any general thoughts on how to optimize these?

Could be you are an ectomorph and naturally don't gain either fat or muscle. For that type less is more.

I gain body fat very easily. All love handles.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Thank you for taking the time to write this up, this is brilliant. Gives me a lot to think about.


I've experimented with zero caffeine for long periods of time (on the order of months) and as much as two 8oz cups of coffee in the morning. Doesn't seem to impact my sleep either way. I had braces around 14y/o. I think my wisdom teeth were taken out around age 16y/o.


This is a very fascinating angle I hadn't considered. I've always struggled with thick love handles, it makes sense that the additional exercise/dieting used to combat this only served to make the problem worse. I'm going to try sleeping on my back tonight.


Very useful actionable advice.


I looked up DK and his candy diet. Dude is a specimen, that's for sure. Is there any actionable advice to be gained from studying him? I can try to practice good habits like mewing and the like, but I'm probably not going to be able to grow my jaw size or airway at this point. Is the takeaway to increase carbs/decrease fats as a way to "heal" my metabolism?

Interesting to read your posts, @DrivesOldTruck you sound just like me. Thick love handles, tried high and low caffeine, worked out for long periods with high protein, excess calories, progressive overload etc. And it doesn't seem to make a blind bit of difference. I don't even want to be "ripped", it'd just be nice to see some physique improvements, such as smaller love handles. Alas, nothing!

I'd highly recommend getting your cortisol and prolactin tested.

 

[BalkanPeater]

Do some blood work and update this thread with the results. In the meantime, try to get your hands on some Injectable L Carnitine. 500 mg daily with food will upregulate your androgen receptors and make the gains and fat loss easier.

Edit: There was a Swedish guy around my age that posted his body transformation. Ask him for the supplements he used and workout program. I think he mentioned forskolin, aspirin, and tons of caffeine helped with his gym goals.

 

[Hans]

The DUTCH test looks very fascinating, as soon as circumstances allow I'll order it and report results here.

Through various forums on the web, I've read anecdotal stories of guys with low T still able to put up strong numbers. I read through one thread on Reddit where a kid was struggling to gain muscle like me and asked if he may have low T. A girl responded and said her lifts were better than his, and being a girl she's going to have low T by male standards, so the T isn't the problem.

I ran Super Squats last year for the prescribed 6 weeks. Hardest I've ever trained in my life. I gained literally 20lbs (182 - 202lbs) in those 6 weeks, so I know I'm eating enough.

I'm currently cutting down to ~175lbs, so I'm running a 6-day PPL.

Do you have a before and after for those 6 weeks? Did you gain a noticeable amount of muscle?

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Do you have a before and after for those 6 weeks? Did you gain a noticeable amount of muscle?

I did take before and after pics, but I didn't gain a noticeable amount of muscle. I might have gained a tiny bit, I think my t-shirts fit slightly more snug through the arm holes, but nothing noticeable to the naked eye. No one I know IRL noticed a difference in musculature.

I have an anonymous Twitter account with a couple thousand followers; I posted the before and after pics there and got completely roasted. Most people commented on the very obvious fat gain around the love handles. Lot of comments about how it was a failed bulk and I need to "lain gain" to prevent getting fat, etc.

 

[brix]

3x5 is not enough.

I am having a similar dilemma to you but I've only been lifting for 5 months.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

3x5 is not enough

3x5 is not the program. I use it as an indication of strength.

i.e. I can bench press 135lbs for 3x5.

Read my OP, I've run very high volume programs like 6-day nSuns with no results.

 

[brix]

I think you should post a screenshot of your daily diet on cronomoter.

I am similar in stature to you (6'3 190) and its hard for me to gain. I think I eat enough until I plug in my diet to cronometer and see that I am severely undereating to the tune of 1000 cals sometimes.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

I think you should post a screenshot of your daily diet on cronomoter.

I am similar in stature to you (6'3 190) and its hard for me to gain. I think I eat enough until I plug in my diet to cronometer and see that I am severely undereating to the tune of 1000 cals sometimes.

Once again, you didn't read the OP. I have no issues gaining weight. I noted in the OP that I've run several bulks in the past where I gain 20lbs in ~2 months. My problem is I struggle to gain strength/muscle.

I am one of the world's foremost experts on how to get fat.

 

[aniciete]

Once again, you didn't read the OP. I have no issues gaining weight. I noted in the OP that I've run several bulks in the past where I gain 20lbs in ~2 months. My problem is I struggle to gain strength/muscle.

I am one of the world's foremost experts on how to get fat.

Then you probably have low androgens. Get blood panels done.

 

[Hayley]

I've spent thousands of hours over the past decade consuming fitness and nutrition content via YouTube,

I've run several "bulks" in the past where I'll gain significant weight (I've done +20lbs in 2 months on several occasions) but I don't gain any muscle or strength; my lifts stall at these pathetically low levels and all the bodyweight gain goes to my love handles. I've spent most of these years tracking everything religiously in a spreadsheet - workouts (Starting Strength, 5/3/1, nSuns, Super Squats, U/L, PPL, and more), food intake (I own 3 food scales), etc.

Yet I've trained with so many guys over the years that don't track at all, just show up at the gym, progressively overload the barbell compound lifts, eat McDonalds, and show very visible muscle gains within 3-6 months. Hell, I know an average height/weight girl that deadlifts more than me after only 3 years of training.

I've always wanted to look like I lift, so my failure in this regard really messes with my psyche. I have no health conditions that I am aware of and wonder if there isn't something Peaty-related I could be missing. Any help/advice appreciated.

You probably already know this if you’ve been lifting for 9 years, but if your biggest concern is gaining strength then overtraining especially with accessory lifts that don’t really contribute directly is a huge killer. Also, muscle building and strength gains don’t really happen in the same phase for most people. Once you get to a highly trained state gaining strength in all lifts at the same time can also be very difficult. I’d say to start pick one focused goal and stick with that for a training cycle. Not dropping everything else but really focusing on one thing, say increasing your bench press.

I don’t want to gaslight you though, and will admit that much of a lack of muscle growth AND strength does seem very strange. There is a young guy at our gym who I’m pretty sure has kleinfelters syndrome (extra X chromosome) and he tries to powerlift but stays skinny fat and weak despite training often. So it does seem like there is something suboptimal going on with your physiology I just have no idea what it is. I doubt it’s as simple as just low testosterone though. My friend had pretty low t at one point and is an elite powerlifter. I would get a full hormone panel done if you haven’t already.

Just to get in a better headspace, I would also hire a good coach that trains other people who are successful powerlifters and who comes recommended by them. Yeah it costs money but if it’s important to you it will be worth it and will take the guessing and mental games out of your programming and gym time.

 

[syncronicity]

Thank you for taking the time to write this up, this is brilliant. Gives me a lot to think about.


I've experimented with zero caffeine for long periods of time (on the order of months) and as much as two 8oz cups of coffee in the morning. Doesn't seem to impact my sleep either way. I had braces around 14y/o. I think my wisdom teeth were taken out around age 16y/o.


This is a very fascinating angle I hadn't considered. I've always struggled with thick love handles, it makes sense that the additional exercise/dieting used to combat this only served to make the problem worse. I'm going to try sleeping on my back tonight.


Very useful actionable advice.


I looked up DK and his candy diet. Dude is a specimen, that's for sure. Is there any actionable advice to be gained from studying him? I can try to practice good habits like mewing and the like, but I'm probably not going to be able to grow my jaw size or airway at this point. Is the takeaway to increase carbs/decrease fats as a way to "heal" my metabolism?

Is it possible you're saying caffeine doesn't seem to impact your sleep while also saying you have both delayed sleep onset and sleep interruption?

If its true love handles correlate with cortisol, and it seems to be a well know corollary, then high cortisol is a significant piece of the equation for you. High cortisol is going to occur when blood sugar gets too low chronically. Your diet is low in carbs and higher in protein and fat. High protein and fat relative to carbs is going to drive lipolysis and gluconeogeneis, so you're burning fat and producing glucose from your own tissue; this is why you get fat deposits around the waist and low muscle tone. Your driving with too feet, one on gas and the other on the break. Pushing your body too much with exercise w/o proper diet could cause this type of stress all on its own. You mentioned trialing various diets, is it possible you trialed intermittent fasting? Is it possible you had high PUFA in your diet pre-Peat? If this is the case, you may not be fully aware of the higher baseline levels of adrenaline and cortisol you experience and this is why you may not think caffeine is causing a problem. If your not getting regular vitamin E, that'll likely make matters worse, even if you dropped down to a low PUFA diet. Transitioning to a state of stable non-stress will take much longer if you have a history of chronic stress. Stress can become so common place that it's difficult to develop an awareness for what it feels like to not have elevated adrenaline and cortisol. Do you have any faint brown spots on sun exposed tissue (forehead, shoulders or back)? Have you spent time monitoring your body temp and PR at wakening and throughout the day pre and post eating to get a handle on correlating body temperature/PR with how you feel? Once someone gets that dialed-in it becomes increasingly uncomfortable to allow stress to keep occurring.

Re: actionable advice, if you do mouth breath at night, you'd want to trial a mandibular repositioning device or CPAP or BIPAP to keep your airway open during the night so you don't have O2 saturation drops and mouth breathing. If this is applicable, it'll be foundational to weaning yourself off of chronic stress. You may also need to work on daytime mouth breathing, despite making an effort while exercising to not mouth breath.

Re: DK, Its a hyperbolic example, that it doesn't take lots of protein to develop and sustain a lean body. Most will say its genetics, but I think a lot of it has to do with the absence of stress and a large airway can make the body a specimen with little effort; and subsequently, the presence of stress and a smaller airway could make somone a specimen (in the opposite direction). I think if you modified your diet to be high carb, moderate protein and low fat you may gain more fat with your level of stress. Your current diet and lifestyle is maintaining a certain level of "fitness" despite it not producing desired results. If your lifestyle and/or anatomy are causing you to mouth breath you'll still be inducing lipolysis, but instead of inducing gluconeogenesis you'll be providing the glucose with a higher carbs and losing the wasteful gluconeogenesis (using up energy to make energy), so ending up with more energy to store as fat because lipolysis will continue to inhibit glucose oxidation. Stres nukes muscle development because you're breaking down the muscle for fuel. I think you need to figure out your sleep and breathing, put the same level of effort into this as you have with your weight lifting, because if its a contributing factor, you're not going to make any gains unless you develop monk-like breathing night and day to avoid glycolysis or find a way to address it with help. Some people can use a mandibular advancement device or CPAP to make adequate improvements, others require orthodontic arch expansion and in some cases orthognathic surgery to advance the jaws to open up the airway. Some people are ignorant to their own being. Many often end-up getting help because a bed partner can't tolerate co-sleeping from snoring or points out the love of mouth breathing. My sister didn't think she had an issue wither her sleep, said she slept soundly, and after some encouragement got a mandibular advancement device and noticed her sleep improved markedly and when she stopped wearing the device for two weeks her stress levels skyrocketed and she finally experienced enough contrast that she realized how much base line stress she was experiencing. Forcing the body Into a higher metabolic state can be equally problematic if the body can't sustain a higher metabolic rate due to breathing impairments. Putting all your focus on protein and how your lifiting hasn't provided you gains, need to look elsewhere for answers.

 

[LLight]

Oxytocin as an Anti-obesity Treatment

5α-Reductase Activity Increased by Oxytocin in the Rat Testis (Might not want to have oxytocin always highly elevated)​

 

[GreekDemiGod]

185lbs at 6ft? That's a solid weight, unless you have bodyfat levels higher than 16%.
You should also test your Testosterone. That is the most common cause.
If you're an ectomorph with thin bones, forget about strength training, forget about barbells, heavy deadlifting, all that autistic powerlifting stuff. You're not built for that. You need to be training for SIZE. You need to be training like a bodybuilder, not like a powerlifter. High-volume, use of dumbbells, cables, 8-20 rep ranges.
Forget about LeanGains/ Martin Berkhan/ fasting. That is reserved for high T Chads who gain muscle just by breathing.
You need to train and eat like a bodybuilder: 5-6 workouts/ week, 4-5 meals/ day, 30g of protein at every meal. High carb, adequate protein, low to moderate fats.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Is it possible you're saying caffeine doesn't seem to impact your sleep while also saying you have both delayed sleep onset and sleep interruption?

Yes exactly. When I cut caffeine out of my diet completely, there's no impact (improvement) in sleep quality.

You mentioned trialing various diets, is it possible you trialed intermittent fasting? Is it possible you had high PUFA in your diet pre-Peat? If this is the case, you may not be fully aware of the higher baseline levels of adrenaline and cortisol you experience and this is why you may not think caffeine is causing a problem. If your not getting regular vitamin E, that'll likely make matters worse, even if you dropped down to a low PUFA diet.

Definitely went through an IF phase. Even had a stint with OMAD at one point. It has been over two years since I've messed with any form of IF though. Historical diet was always close to a Standard American Diet, so higher in PUFA. Are you suggesting a Vitamin E supplement is a good idea? Or there is a real food option that is better?

Do you have any faint brown spots on sun exposed tissue (forehead, shoulders or back)? Have you spent time monitoring your body temp and PR at wakening and throughout the day pre and post eating to get a handle on correlating body temperature/PR with how you feel? Once someone gets that dialed-in it becomes increasingly uncomfortable to allow stress to keep occurring.

No brown spots. I only just measured by temp and pulse for the first time the other day when you (or someone else here) asked about it. I was diving into some of Danny Roddy's content last night on this subject, now I have an actionable goal of getting my temps/pulse up, as mine are much lower than Peat's guidelines.

My sister didn't think she had an issue wither her sleep, said she slept soundly, and after some encouragement got a mandibular advancement device and noticed her sleep improved markedly and when she stopped wearing the device for two weeks her stress levels skyrocketed and she finally experienced enough contrast that she realized how much base line stress she was experiencing.

This is very fascinating to me, can you recommend a good MAD brand? They're not too expensive, I'll order one ASAP and see what happens.

Thank you for all of your help here. You've been incredible and were exactly what I was hoping to get out of posting here. Now I have several specific areas with which to focus my research to try to fix my issues going forward. ?

 

[syncronicity]

Yes exactly. When I cut caffeine out of my diet completely, there's no impact (improvement) in sleep quality.


Definitely went through an IF phase. Even had a stint with OMAD at one point. It has been over two years since I've messed with any form of IF though. Historical diet was always close to a Standard American Diet, so higher in PUFA. Are you suggesting a Vitamin E supplement is a good idea? Or there is a real food option that is better?


No brown spots. I only just measured by temp and pulse for the first time the other day when you (or someone else here) asked about it. I was diving into some of Danny Roddy's content last night on this subject, now I have an actionable goal of getting my temps/pulse up, as mine are much lower than Peat's guidelines.


This is very fascinating to me, can you recommend a good MAD brand? They're not too expensive, I'll order one ASAP and see what happens.

Thank you for all of your help here. You've been incredible and were exactly what I was hoping to get out of posting here. Now I have several specific areas with which to focus my research to try to fix my issues going forward. ?

Yes, get an E supplement. Either Haidut's Tocovit or Matt Blackburn's PUFA Protect. Should help with getting temps up.

If caffein abstinence is not improving conditions you probably want to stay off it anyways or at a minimum only drink after a full meal has passed the stomach. Intaking caffeine before a meal or with a with meal can result in the caffeine hitting the cells before food and will likely drive a stress response, and then when the food is taken up by cells the stress response will shut off (if you eat enough) and could make you sluggish or at possibly just make it more difficult to keep track of what's causing symptom resolution.

When I started tracking temp and PR I bought a bunch of them, bed side, kitchen, work, car, it makes is much easier to check your temp and pulse throughout the day. It's important to check-in with a temp and PR check when your body shifts, so you can begin to associate temp fluctuations with what you recently did.

You don't want to use an over the counter MAD, you'll want to get something custom made form a provider. There's not a one size fits all. Dentist and orthodontists are typically the providers. Start with your dentist or doctor, if they don't do it or discourage or not helpful, find a local dentist or ortho who are airway aware, someone who is knowledgable. You'll want to find a provider that includes fitting(s) w/ custom molds and includes adjustments with the service. MAD therapy is as much diagnostic as it is therapeutic and it's not as simple as retainer where you pop-it-in and your good. The MAD is going to work in opposition to your anatomy so there'll be discomfort and an adjustment and acclimation period. It can take a couple weeks to acclimate and find an advancement setting that's tolerable and therapeutic.

 

[Tyler Woodward]

Just look up Coach Kassem and N1 education and see the movements you're doing are actually efficient for stimulating mechanical tension on a given muscle group which is the main driver of muscle growth. His stuff on periodization and the mechanisms behind hypertrophy is also great.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

185lbs at 6ft? That's a solid weight, unless you have bodyfat levels higher than 16%.

Probably, I look pretty bad here at 185lbs. I much prefer to weigh around 170lbs.

You should also test your Testosterone. That is the most common cause.

Agreed.

If you're an ectomorph with thin bones, forget about strength training, forget about barbells, heavy deadlifting, all that autistic powerlifting stuff. You're not built for that. You need to be training for SIZE. You need to be training like a bodybuilder, not like a powerlifter. High-volume, use of dumbbells, cables, 8-20 rep ranges.
Forget about LeanGains/ Martin Berkhan/ fasting. That is reserved for high T Chads who gain muscle just by breathing.
You need to train and eat like a bodybuilder: 5-6 workouts/ week, 4-5 meals/ day, 30g of protein at every meal. High carb, adequate protein, low to moderate fats.

I look much more like an endomorph based on all the charts on google images. I have tried the rest of these suggestions in the past without success.