Building Muscle

[Nstocks]

Hello,

I've finally hit a point in my (young life, 23) that I want to build some muscle and get rid of the skinny-guy look. I'm not interested in becoming a body builder or having extreme muscles, just add 20lbs or so of muscle to fill me out a bit. (I'm 12 stone / 168lbs and 6' 2" tall)

I've already started intense strength training at home (no money for gym) but because I still lack protein and energy, I don't exercise frequently or push myself.

I've always been very slim, but have managed to put 20lbs on with Peat inspired eating. I still under eat most days though because I fear that eating too much will make me fat. (But I need to break through that barrier in order to gain muscle).

My question is: Would a plant based protein powder be better than none at all? I eat less than 60g protein per day as it is and cannot tolerate any dairy from cows. I understand this is one of the best powders that doesn't contain dairy, soy etc. http://www.rawlicious.eu/store/p19/Ulti ... tural.html

My current main protein sources are
Daily: goat yogurt, goat cheese, GL Collagen
Weekly: oysters, organic grass fed lamb, organic grass fed lamb liver.

See attached picture for my need of gaining muscle. As a reference, my arms are around 12 inches and waist is 33inches.

PS.My entire family are overweight or obese and I look like a bit dropped off. They are all on diets and are starting to loose weight which is great - just something that may be useful to know.

 

[kiran]

Have you considered adding an egg or two and perhaps potatoes into your diet?

A couple of eggs should be about 12g of protein. Potatoes probably have more protein than the databases indicate.

 

[Nstocks]

I eat a few eggs per week, but they usually give me gas. I do eat a few potatoes too but try to limit starch.

 

[sarahevebee]

Great interview with Rob Turner about his Peat-inspired approach to exercise (this is part 2, which I think might benefit you more):

http://www.thenutritioncoach.com.au/ant ... er-part-2/

I wouldn't go with any kind of plant-based protein. Are you eating a daily raw-carrot salad? That's what helped me eliminate any issues I had with gas, enabling me to tolerate milk and starch better. I highly recommend potatoes for the protein...

But carbohydrates are extremely important when it comes to building muscle! So you may want to increase your sugar intake, and/or eat more fruit and drink more OJ.

 

[Mittir]

RP recommends starch free potato juice as protein source to vegetarians.
RP has mentioned that potato juice is equivalent to milk in terms of protein
that is about 32 grams of protein per quart. Keto Acid in potato juice has
very special beneficial effects. Potato is full of vitamins and minerals.
There is a thread on how to make starch free potato juice here.
I have noticed significant muscle gain only after i make sure i
was getting around 100 grams of protein daily, mainly from dairy
and some meat. I gained all that muscle without any kind of
exercise. RP recommends concentric exercise only,
eccentric exercise builds weak muscle.

 

[jyb]

RP recommends starch free potato juice as protein source to vegetarians.
RP has mentioned that potato juice is equivalent to milk in terms of protein
that is about 32 grams of protein per quart. Keto Acid in potato juice has
very special beneficial effects. Potato is full of vitamins and minerals.
There is a thread on how to make starch free potato juice here.
I have noticed significant muscle gain only after i make sure i
was getting around 100 grams of protein daily, mainly from dairy
and some meat. I gained all that muscle without any kind of
exercise. RP recommends concentric exercise only,
eccentric exercise builds weak muscle.

Same experience as Mittir. I was skinnier than you, Nstocks, judging from the pictures. Then I bulked up when I discovered RP, I stopped exercise almost completely and ate milk, gelatin and the usual stuff. Before Peating I noticed that I could build muscle with frequent muscle exercise and Whey powder, but the muscles would dissolve quickly whenever I would stop the routine, whereas now my upper body is both bulkier (without increased fat) than ever before and stable - I don't need to do anything.

Potato juice has the proteins, but I think its very expensive (and time consuming) with cost of buying a suitable juicer and then the potatoes.

 

[pboy]

the best vegetarian proteins are probably fruit (though they have very small amounts), potatoes...and wheat, if you digest it fine. Dairy is quite significantly the best protein overall, but it has less a content than meat. Granted you have enough calories the dairy should be able to hold it down alone. I cant offer much advice on getting big, because I am and have always been thin...but there was a period of time where I was actually underweight and had to figure out how to gain back to normal pretty much on my own. In order to gain weight fast, im sure muscle as well, you need like a 1000cal surplus a day, at least. Its actually harder than it seems to gain weight, almost have to eat as much as you can, especially If they are more whole food healthier sources. Which is why I have no clue how most Americans are so overweight so fast...either they simply eat a huge surplus every day which isn't even comfortable so I don't know why they would, or its purely hormonal. But yea, work out hard 4 times a week, don't skimp walking distances or taking the stairs, sleep at least 7 hours a night, and eat a surplus of probably 500 - 1500 calories a day, as it fits into your lifestyle. You gotta simply push yourself beyond comfort, and over time usually through sleep your body will adapt its nerves and muscle. If you eat just enough to get through the day, youll probably heal from being sore but not gain a whole lot

 

[Nstocks]

RP recommends starch free potato juice as protein source to vegetarians.
RP has mentioned that potato juice is equivalent to milk in terms of protein
that is about 32 grams of protein per quart. Keto Acid in potato juice has
very special beneficial effects. Potato is full of vitamins and minerals.
There is a thread on how to make starch free potato juice here.
I have noticed significant muscle gain only after i make sure i
was getting around 100 grams of protein daily, mainly from dairy
and some meat. I gained all that muscle without any kind of
exercise. RP recommends concentric exercise only,
eccentric exercise builds weak muscle.

Same experience as Mittir. I was skinnier than you, Nstocks, judging from the pictures. Then I bulked up when I discovered RP, I stopped exercise almost completely and ate milk, gelatin and the usual stuff. Before Peating I noticed that I could build muscle with frequent muscle exercise and Whey powder, but the muscles would dissolve quickly whenever I would stop the routine, whereas now my upper body is both bulkier (without increased fat) than ever before and stable - I don't need to do anything.

Potato juice has the proteins, but I think its very expensive (and time consuming) with cost of buying a suitable juicer and then the potatoes.

The thing about 'bulking' is how much extra calories is really needed? Some say 300, some say 1000. I'm guessing somewhere in-between to reduce rapid weight gain? Did you gain fat for a long time before your body made use of the protein to build muscle, then lose the fat? So you don't exercise at all? (if that's what you meant by "I don't need to do anything". The things I'm afraid of when adding around 500 calories, is that my waist will expand a lot then muscle will take a long time to develop. (I believe 1 lb per week is possible for gym-goers)

Potato juice dose't sound appealing at all! I've reduced my liquid consumption a LOT (less than 1L total now) which has reduced my bloating. I'm eating a few watermelons every week though, so that's a lot of liquid too.

 

[Nstocks]

the best vegetarian proteins are probably fruit (though they have very small amounts), potatoes...and wheat, if you digest it fine. Dairy is quite significantly the best protein overall, but it has less a content than meat. Granted you have enough calories the dairy should be able to hold it down alone. I cant offer much advice on getting big, because I am and have always been thin...but there was a period of time where I was actually underweight and had to figure out how to gain back to normal pretty much on my own. In order to gain weight fast, im sure muscle as well, you need like a 1000cal surplus a day, at least. Its actually harder than it seems to gain weight, almost have to eat as much as you can, especially If they are more whole food healthier sources. Which is why I have no clue how most Americans are so overweight so fast...either they simply eat a huge surplus every day which isn't even comfortable so I don't know why they would, or its purely hormonal. But yea, work out hard 4 times a week, don't skimp walking distances or taking the stairs, sleep at least 7 hours a night, and eat a surplus of probably 500 - 1500 calories a day, as it fits into your lifestyle. You gotta simply push yourself beyond comfort, and over time usually through sleep your body will adapt its nerves and muscle. If you eat just enough to get through the day, youll probably heal from being sore but not gain a whole lot

I digest potatoes (mashed) well most of the time - they are just VERY filling. Wheat isn't too bad but I'd rather not eat it.

If large quanta tie of goat yogurt a problem, even if I can digest it fairly well? I like how it has calcium (which I need) and it's a concentrated version of milk in some ways.

It is very hard to gain weight (muscle anyway) because for a smaller frame, it's just not possible to eat the mass that the bulkier people can fit in.

I can probably work up to 4 days a week or 30 minutes (if I'm fuled well before and after, which I'm not right now so I find it hard to push myself). I sleep 10-12 hours and I'm at home most of the time so I can do anything I want really. (I'm in-between careers, working part time in a stressful job)

Seems vain but for the time being I might get one of these: https://www.funkybod.com ... It will probably motivate me too if it looks good.

I've tried on at lest 30 shirts and none of them fit me... I thought it was the shirts, but it's not.

 

[jyb]

The thing about 'bulking' is how much extra calories is really needed? Some say 300, some say 1000. I'm guessing somewhere in-between to reduce rapid weight gain? Did you gain fat for a long time before your body made use of the protein to build muscle, then lose the fat? So you don't exercise at all? (if that's what you meant by "I don't need to do anything". The things I'm afraid of when adding around 500 calories, is that my waist will expand a lot then muscle will take a long time to develop. (I believe 1 lb per week is possible for gym-goers)

Potato juice dose't sound appealing at all! I've reduced my liquid consumption a LOT (less than 1L total now) which has reduced my bloating. I'm eating a few watermelons every week though, so that's a lot of liquid too.

I didn't count calories, but ate in such a way that I was never hungry, and probably slightly full / satisfied most of the day. Which is already pretty radical compared to conventional way of eating with just a few meals a day and hunger in between.

I usually don't count calories because it's not so relevant for metabolism. 1000kcal of pufa or low nutrient fat is not the same as 1000kcal of quality milk. The latter contains so many things like hormones and nutrients that are pro-metabolism. My leanness didn't change when I started Peating and bulking up, so in that respect it was no different than before. I think it probably has to do with testosterone or something, which are increased on this pro-metabolic diet, which makes muscles mass very stable. I do weights maybe 15 minutes once a month, sometimes much less, and have always walked a lot, maybe 30-60mins every day just because I like doing it, eg going to work. I wouldn't mind doing more weights or intensity exercise, I just haven't got round to it yet.

Potato juice (cooked, obviously) tastes fine I think. It can be made in bulk efficiently so that the supply for several days. But there are costs involved, one needs a lot of potatoes.

 

[Nstocks]

This isn't typical of my nature, but would adding some kind of 'miracle pill' help push growth along?

The link provided was very useful and makes me wonder if my sudden jawline acne is from exercising and under eating. (consuming OJ when waking, then 20 minutes of intense strength training 1 hour later) - http://www.thenutritioncoach.com.au/ant ... er-part-2/

The author of that blog post seems to be in tune with Peat and like other have said, exercise can be too stressful (and cause more fat storage)

IDK, I feel that consuming 200-300 extra calories from dairy (clean protein) won't really do anything for my upper body and just go straight to my waist.

Probably unrelated but out of the 5 males in my family, I'm the only one with little to zero body hair and the inability to grow very little facial hair. (light goatee) Developments in... other departments are fine though!

 

[Curt :-)]

Broham, you should be able to put some meat on without too much hassle.
I think getting enough protein is paramount. You're really just wasting your time if you're not eating enough. I know from experience.
I would certainly add 5 grams of creatine post workout (super cheap), as well as plenty of BCAA's (not so cheap).
Whey protein works wonders and is also super cheap (that's if you can digest it).
Do only compound exercises. Volume adds mass far better than intensity. Systems such as German volume training will put meat on ANYONE, provided they eat enough.
If you've not trained before, milk those newbie gains!

 

[Nstocks]

Broham, you should be able to put some meat on without too much hassle.
I think getting enough protein is paramount. You're really just wasting your time if you're not eating enough. I know from experience.
I would certainly add 5 grams of creatine post workout (super cheap), as well as plenty of BCAA's (not so cheap).
Whey protein works wonders and is also super cheap (that's if you can digest it).
Do only compound exercises. Volume adds mass far better than intensity. Systems such as German volume training will put meat on ANYONE, provided they eat enough.
If you've not trained before, milk those newbie gains!

I'm making a LOT of yogurt (stores hardly ever stock goat yogurt) which is probably going to me a staple of mine for a while. I'm probably going to start eating meat since I only do that a few times a month now.

I've already god come BCAA's - how do you make it not taste so vile? I can't do certain or whey so I'm probably going to need more food sources of protein. (which is harder than it sounds when money is limited)

With exercise, would things like push ups, leg raises, dips, squats, jumping lunges be a good base? I have no equipment and can't afford a gym membership. I think for me food will at this point be the main focus, but can these exercises alone build mass? (I know everyone varies in this regard though!)

Thanks for your help.

 

[goofy]

It sucks that you cant tolerate milk. Milk gives you endless options for shakes. I start the morning with a milkshake that contains only 1 banana and 1tp of cinnamon, tastes incredibly good. Then 1 glass of OJ, toasted bread and some jam. Legit.

You can't afford a low cost gym?

 

[goofy]

the best vegetarian proteins are probably fruit (though they have very small amounts), potatoes...and wheat, if you digest it fine. Dairy is quite significantly the best protein overall, but it has less a content than meat. Granted you have enough calories the dairy should be able to hold it down alone. I cant offer much advice on getting big, because I am and have always been thin...but there was a period of time where I was actually underweight and had to figure out how to gain back to normal pretty much on my own. In order to gain weight fast, im sure muscle as well, you need like a 1000cal surplus a day, at least. Its actually harder than it seems to gain weight, almost have to eat as much as you can, especially If they are more whole food healthier sources. Which is why I have no clue how most Americans are so overweight so fast...either they simply eat a huge surplus every day which isn't even comfortable so I don't know why they would, or its purely hormonal. But yea, work out hard 4 times a week, don't skimp walking distances or taking the stairs, sleep at least 7 hours a night, and eat a surplus of probably 500 - 1500 calories a day, as it fits into your lifestyle. You gotta simply push yourself beyond comfort, and over time usually through sleep your body will adapt its nerves and muscle. If you eat just enough to get through the day, youll probably heal from being sore but not gain a whole lot

I digest potatoes (mashed) well most of the time - they are just VERY filling. Wheat isn't too bad but I'd rather not eat it.

If large quanta tie of goat yogurt a problem, even if I can digest it fairly well? I like how it has calcium (which I need) and it's a concentrated version of milk in some ways.

It is very hard to gain weight (muscle anyway) because for a smaller frame, it's just not possible to eat the mass that the bulkier people can fit in.

I can probably work up to 4 days a week or 30 minutes (if I'm fuled well before and after, which I'm not right now so I find it hard to push myself). I sleep 10-12 hours and I'm at home most of the time so I can do anything I want really. (I'm in-between careers, working part time in a stressful job)

Seems vain but for the time being I might get one of these: https://www.funkybod.com ... It will probably motivate me too if it looks good.

I've tried on at lest 30 shirts and none of them fit me... I thought it was the shirts, but it's not.

Im 5'9'' and eat around 2850 kcals and around 1g/lbs of protein and im always have been really lean, like legit lean with ABS showing. You seem to have a skinnyfat body. You should get a lab and guarantee your test, estrogen, DHT and so on is at decent levels.

 

[Nstocks]

It sucks that you cant tolerate milk. Milk gives you endless options for shakes. I start the morning with a milkshake that contains only 1 banana and 1tp of cinnamon, tastes incredibly good. Then 1 glass of OJ, toasted bread and some jam. Legit.

You can't afford a low cost gym?

I can tolerate goat milk, I just can't consume large quantities of liquids because it bloats me.

I probably could afford a low cost gym but to be honest I have no desire to join a gym! I know it's about my body and my goals, but I can't be around people who constantly check themselves out openly in public amongst other things. I've never been to a gym in my life! I did play a LOT of badminton in my younger years and occasionally do that in a sports hall.

 

[Nstocks]

I use to be a lot leaner (with less muscle if you can even imagine that!), when I was Paleo. I've gained a lot of fat on Peat inspired and I was fine with that for a while, but then things like jawline acne came back and it's like it was all for nothing. (I got into health stuff due to acne and whilst many things have improved with Peat, my acne is still very annoying. I know it's diet and hormonal...)

I had a "full" blood test including thyroid last summer when I first discovered Peat. It was on the NHS so it wasn't actually a full test but my testosterone level was 31.0. The range is 9.1 - 34.3. There's absolutely no way I'm going back to my Doctor to ask for more tests and private testing means travelling and huge expense

I can get testosterone for £60 at home, but it's probably a wage of money just getting that checked :http://www.medichecks.com/index.cfm?s=2&d=21&test=TEST&name=Testosterone

 

[Curt :-)]

Broshambles,
Mix the BCAAs into the yoghurt. Done.
Yes, those body weight type moves will promote hypertrophy if the rep range is appropriate (approx. 8 and up) and you do plenty of sets.
I wouldn't join a gym, just train at home or at a park/school that has a jungle gym.
If it's not too personal, may I ask why you can't afford enough food? I really don't want to be presumptuous but if your situation doesn't allow you to eat enough to gain, I would look at changing at as soon as poss.

Try not to over complicate hypertrophy. All you need to gain is a) enough training stimulus, and b) enough food. Of course, there's a million things you can do to move the process along, but really it's very simple

 

[Nstocks]

Are the BCAA's best consumed only after exercise, rather than randomly costuming in the day of no activity?

The reason I can't afford much is because I earn around £50 a week working part time in retail.Half of that goes to my parents for lodge which buys me some food but not enough really. I've recently invested a chunk of money on a design project to send to prosperous company who hopefully will employ me when there is a opening, perhaps later in the year. (the design industry is very hard to get into! BUT I'm not one to settle or give up easily). I get as much overtime as possible but sadly, theres very little even though it's the UK leading retailer...

I'm probably going to track calories and protein for a few weeks, then begin exercise once I have enough energy to prevent over-stressing myself. Would you say volume is more stimulating than intensity, especially without equipment? (But personally I feel 30 pushups is intense!)

Cheers :)

 

[Curt :-)]

Bromeo,
Oh I see. I hope that works out for you

I don't really know which would be more stressful; volume or intensity. It's kind of hard to compare an equivalent amount of the two. Intensity (lower reps) stresses the nervous system more, so you'll perhaps produce more stress hormones during the session.
Volume is less taxing during the session but you will have far more DOMS from high volume work than intense work.
And if you do volume and intensity together, well, you're gonna hurt lol.