Anyone Have Success Building Muscle On A Peat Diet?

[Hans]

Thanks @DuggaDugga I'll definitely check out those links. I know tryptophan is aweful, yet it's needed during periods of rapid growth, just like methionine and even iron. Now I certainly would not go supplementing with those, just stated it out of interest.

Btw, how much protein would you say would be the optimal requirement for building muscle while avoiding too much iron, methionine and tryptophan, (while also taking BCAA to prevent tryptophan absorption)? Some studies state 4g/kg is safe, but don't see high levels of Fe, tryp, meth as bad. Would 1g/lb of bodyweight be the safest, or is protein actually not as important for building muscle when you have anabolic hormones high and catabolic hormones low?

As I personally think one can eat high protein, but ingest vit E/caffeine with it to inhibit iron absorption, take BCAAs to prevent tryptophan absorption and cycle 5 days on and 2 days off of a high protein diet to allow recovery and detoxification.

What about B3 as it's a potent inhibitor of G6PD?

 

[DaveFoster]

Nice. How long did this take you?
What was your macros?
And what is your length?

A few years at a daily intake of around 150 g protein (but I never count macros) and maybe 500-800 g carbs daily. Fats usually been less than 100 grams, often less than 50. I used to workout every other day, but I stopped and continue to gain size.

 

[Nstocks]

For a tall guy with very little muscle mass and a wide mid section, after getting the diet consistent and adequate protein, would bodyweight exercises be an efficient way to create the triangular shape we all want? (so inver what I look like now!) Of course it will take months of work before results, but for me using equipment feels very forced, unnatural and of course, cost money.

 

[DuggaDugga]

Thanks @DuggaDugga I'll definitely check out those links. I know tryptophan is aweful, yet it's needed during periods of rapid growth, just like methionine and even iron. Now I certainly would not go supplementing with those, just stated it out of interest.

Btw, how much protein would you say would be the optimal requirement for building muscle while avoiding too much iron, methionine and tryptophan, (while also taking BCAA to prevent tryptophan absorption)? Some studies state 4g/kg is safe, but don't see high levels of Fe, tryp, meth as bad. Would 1g/lb of bodyweight be the safest, or is protein actually not as important for building muscle when you have anabolic hormones high and catabolic hormones low?

As I personally think one can eat high protein, but ingest vit E/caffeine with it to inhibit iron absorption, take BCAAs to prevent tryptophan absorption and cycle 5 days on and 2 days off of a high protein diet to allow recovery and detoxification.

What about B3 as it's a potent inhibitor of G6PD?

Wish I had a better answer for you but honestly I just eat to appetite. I notice when I'm lifting my appetite is basically incessant. It'll be after dinner and I'll be getting ready for bed and I'll get huge cravings for something. I stop and think about what's appetizing and it's usually meat, so I'll make a couple tacos or something, chased with milk and some gelatin snack. I strongly believe in the body's ability to tell us when and what to eat, so I roll with that.

If I don't get enough protein I get grumpy and my acne flares up, I think due to inability of the liver to properly glucoronidate and produce things like SHBG and transcortin. Protein is undoubtedly very important for much more than building muscle. I think it's important to just get a good balance of amino acids, like you mentioned. I'm currently reading about tryptophan metabolism, which is quite interesting given it has multiple fates, one being nicotinamide.
Nutritional Aspect of Tryptophan Metabolism

I agree that excess iron is a potential issue. Tea an coffee contain polyphenols that can help decrease it's absorption, but I think it might decrease the absorption of other vitamins and minerals as well.

The one thing I'm still having trouble with is rough skin. I think my zinc needs aren't being met, so I'm going to try incorporating more oysters to see how things pan out.

 

[Nathan777]

For a tall guy with very little muscle mass and a wide mid section, after getting the diet consistent and adequate protein, would bodyweight exercises be an efficient way to create the triangular shape we all want? (so inver what I look like now!) Of course it will take months of work before results, but for me using equipment feels very forced, unnatural and of course, cost money.

Depends why your midsection is wide. If it's wide because that's just the bone structure of your hips then the only way to get a nice taper is going to be to widen your upper torso. To do this you'll need to work on your lats and delts. This can be done bodyweight through pullups and their variations as well as handstand pushups and other movements, but for someone without much muscle you'll have trouble jumping right into these. I'm not sure why you're so against paying $10/month for a basic gym where you can progressively work on lifts easily, but there's plenty of calisthenics guides online if that's your decision.

 

[dand]

I was a college football player with extensive training history thinking I had reached what was likely my muscle capacity. After moving from low carb to Peat and training about 1/10th as much as I did in college, I gained 25 lbs of mostly muscle.

 

[ScottyVP]

IMO to get significant muscle growth after training a while it takes a big excess of calories. Obviously, protein needs to be high but the biggest factor is calories with heavy weight training. There's some guys who can lean gain but they're few a far between.

Ray Peat style eating with calorie excess gained me around 20kg of muscle without steroids but I was an ex powerlifter who was much heavier than I am currently so take from that what you will (used steroids)

 

[Hans]

I was a college football player with extensive training history thinking I had reached what was likely my muscle capacity. After moving from low carb to Peat and training about 1/10th as much as I did in college, I gained 25 lbs of mostly muscle.

What was your macros and total calories during that low carb phase and did you do carb refeeds?
And how many hours did you train in college compared to now?

 

[Hans]

IMO to get significant muscle growth after training a while it takes a big excess of calories. Obviously, protein needs to be high but the biggest factor is calories with heavy weight training. There's some guys who can lean gain but they're few a far between.

Ray Peat style eating with calorie excess gained me around 20kg of muscle without steroids but I was an ex powerlifter who was much heavier than I am currently so take from that what you will (used steroids)

What was your macros and total calories when you gained that 20kg and how long did it take you? Was it much faster to regain that muscle the second time round? Why did you lose so much weight if I may ask?

 

[dand]

What was your macros and total calories during that low carb phase and did you do carb refeeds?
And how many hours did you train in college compared to now?

I don’t know. I’ve always eaten a lot though. I probably train a total of an hour a week now and probably trained anywhere from 10-25 hrs a week depending on the time of year

 

[Glassy]

Most decent diet advice for bulking/growing muscle focuses more on macronutrient ratios and caloric levels rather than where those sources of macros come from.

While peatarism advocates for certain approaches there is not really a peatarian diet as such. It’s not a structured approach (not by design anyway). If I had to generalise it, I’d say that it’s a high carb (mainly from fruits) and moderate to high protein diet that completely avoids PUFAs. Yes it is also generally low fat, low starch and low in muscle flesh but these are somewhat modifiable based on your state and goals. There is no reason you couldn’t implement nearly any body building diet while still following most of the Peatarian principles. The only thing I’d maybe avoid is the standard recommendation for fish oils (I remember taking 8 x 1g fish oil tablets a day at one point - wtf?). I reckon RP wouldn’t even be completely against going GOMAD if you used skim milk lol.

The foods I currently eat aren’t vastly different to what I ate previously. I eat more fruit and less starch now and I’ve removed my occasional indulgence in chips and processed carbs (nearly all contain vegetable oil). I eat more cottage cheese and less meat but I still take my WPC shakes post work out (I add cane sugar rather than dextrose now). I still crack a tub of ice cream occasionally even if it does contain gums.

 

[ScottyVP]

What was your macros and total calories when you gained that 20kg and how long did it take you? Was it much faster to regain that muscle the second time round? Why did you lose so much weight if I may ask?

No macro ratio or anything I just eat an extra meals or to eat until I'm really full. The core of my diet being juice, milk products, fruit, honey and as much meat as I can afford. The 20kg took about 8-10 months.

I got a serious illness in africa that made me reassess my life: quit powerlifting and the pharmaceutical industry and just lived on organic farms around Europe and travelled about.

 

[Aymen]

my muscles got bigger fast when i included starch ( white rice and potatoes ) in a ray peat diet , usually i used to eat starch post workout to spike my insulin ( and also white sugar ) .

 

[Vinero]

my muscles got bigger fast when i included starch ( white rice and potatoes ) in a ray peat diet , usually i used to eat starch post workout to spike my insulin ( and also white sugar ) .

White rice is something almost all bodybuilders eat, and there is a good reason for it. It digests easily and is great for getting high amounts of muscle glycogen, which results in greater pumps, more strength and more growth.

 

[dand]

I have been a hard training athlete my whole life and put on 25 pounds from Peat. When I was playing college football and eating a low carb diet, it was impossible for me to get above 200. I weight anywhere from 220-230 now.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I don't see why it would not be beneficial in any shape. You have all of the below compatible with RP-inspired nutrition:

• high-enough protein intake to support maximum protein synthesis
• high-enough saturated fats for optimal testosterone production
• high-carb to take advantage of insulin's anabolism effects.

I'd say the only addition you need is one source of starch: white rice or potatoes.

@dand I'm coming after 4 months on the Carnivore Diet and I could not stop losing weight for my life, with my fast metabolism

 

[Markus]

Stan Efferding who is a famous bodybuilder is promoting a Ray Peat-inspired diet that he calls the "Vertical Diet".

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I could not gain weight for my life on low-starch Peat. Also, my muscles weren't as full as they used to. My strength is superior with starch.
I'm increasing my starch intake, to start putting serious mass.

 

[Hans]

I could not gain weight for my life on low-starch Peat. Also, my muscles weren't as full as they used to. My strength is superior with starch.
I'm increasing my starch intake, to start putting serious mass.

Yeah my strength and mass gains are just great in a high protein and starch diet. I also have a couple of sugared coffees through the day and a few glasses of milk.

 

[milkboi]

Yeah my strength and mass gains are just great in a high protein and starch diet. I also have a couple of sugared coffees through the day and a few glasses of milk.

No OJ?