Is pro-metabolic nutrition just another fad or a cult?

[DenizkaRedizka]

Read from another thread you did steroids while being only 18-19yo. Did you issues start before or after the use of steroids ? What kind of issues do you have besides the chubby cheeks ?

I was too struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts when I was your age. First thing when I wake up and last thing when I was going to bed was thinking I want to die. Those kind of mental diseases are hard to fix but they do get better if persistent and eventually go away. Are you doing drugs, smoking pot or something of this sort ?

I have been using steroids for about 1 month. At that time, I had a problem with fluid retention for more than 2 years.

Smoked weed 2.5 years ago. 2 weeks of abuse. For 16 years out of 19 I have been completely sober and have been an athlete for over 3 years. 2 concussions, a broken finger, nasal septum surgery and chronic fatigue - 3 years of competitive boxing gave me this.
Now I use pod e for appetite suppression. I intend to quit vaping until August. My experience with nicotine is several months (5-6).

 

[FitnessMike]

Well you not alone man, but it's down to how determined you are to get fixed.

It's been roughly 2 years since I found out it is Thyroid related and still battling myself.

It's a marathon for sure, think how long were we ******ng ourselves, whether consciously or not.

Our systems got adapted to the current state big time, and we can only solve this with a little step by step improvements .

I do believe you need to find a way to tolerate enough thyroid meds to start feeling optimal, at all costs you need to find a way to start tolerating it.

For a while, I'm able to tolerate very little but still, 15mg thyroid glandular, and let me tell you its a big **** difference with or without it, obviously its nowhere near what i need to be taking for my body to function optimally but at least I'm on a good way.

Things I found essential for me to lower RT3 and subsequently start to tolerate little(for now) doses of NDTare a bunch of supplements that i believe quench stress response.

I take: taurine, b complex, little progest/dhea, black cumin seed oil, started some ashwagandha, inosine, magnesium glyc, cypro before bed, aspirin

my RT3 dropped on this protocol, not that much but stil. While on this protocol i started taking 15mg of NDT and my body started utilizing it for the first time, i even increased recently to 30mg and saw it working but then i let myself down and started eating fruits and drinking fruit juices which is no GO for me as it foks my liver.

I can easily say when NDT works or it doesn't but having constant access to my pulse via Fitbit.

yea man, it's just you need constantly be aware of your routine and how it affects your pulse/sleep quality, etc. but definitely, you need to find your way to start tolerating thyroid meds.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Do you do any bloodwork? Take pulse and Temps? It is a marathon fir sure, not a sprint

I used to take my temperature daily, more than 20 times/ day or so, do you know how tiring that was, always obsessing about body temperature?
I did bloodwork here and there, as much as finances allowed.

This year, I started taking the "fatty liver" problem more seriously. I searched the forum, found Haidut's posts with studies about caffeine, K2, Inosine, Biotin as possible therapeutic agents to reverse a fatty liver. Tried them all, none of them worked in the slightest. They simply don't bring results.
And then I started noticing all the threads reporting negative results from applying Peat principles. People wrecking their health, being in denial about it all. You start to realize how most on this forum are sick, how most of the advice thrown around here doesn't work.

Fructose overconsumption definitely contributes to fatty liver. PUFA depletion does not bring massive positive results in one's health. I could go on.

 

[LuMonty]

@LuMonty Too much T4 made my rT3 rise. Too much T3 gave me palpitations.

Then what's wrong with using the amount of T3 that doesn't cause palpitations? My wife only used 10mcg or so of both for years and still improved. I just don't get your reasoning. It sounds like you've experimented a bit and have a better idea of what to do, but instead you drop everything and blame Ray/the forum. Try the amount of T3 that doesn't give palpitations, spread through out the day if possible, and get plenty to eat and drink. Don't obsess about temperature, just try it or several weeks.

 

[Nebula]

In my experience nutrition by itself doesn’t affect metabolism and hormones very dramatically other than decreasing inflammation. Sunlight exposure (early morning and evening), daytime activities (a job I like) and social environment seem to influence my metabolic rate more. As far as supplement interventions I’d say the most potent and reliable have been 1mg methylene blue sipped throughout the day and tiny amounts of T3 throughout the day from a crushed cynomel, probably less than 1mcg every couple hours.

I do think Peat is right lower fat and low inflammatory amino acids are probably optimal for most people, but this is basically the mainstream view. This alone got me to low body fat and a more effortlessly good mood and outlook on life.

I did not have a good experience on the meme’d peat staples of milk, oysters and oj. I do much better on rice, potatoes, whole fruit, Greek yogurt, shrimp, cod, and beef heart.

 

[chompie]

Yeah, I'm not buying anymore the "everything is caused by hypothyroidism" angle. Unless one has Hashimoto or has had a thyroidectomy, they thyroid is probably not the problem.

I can get behind this. Broda Barnes had a lot of success healing all types of ailments with NDT Ray has parroted that. I think it's way more complex than giving someone thyroid along with a carrot salad, some liver, oysters, eggs, milk, and orange juice.

 

[xeliex]

@GreekDemiGod
I appreciate your courage and understand your suffering.

Everyone else, I applaud your support and compassionate way of voicing your opinions.

I have had my doubts too. Despite being "pro-metabolic" for many years, I have gotten fatter and unhealthier. While some of my symptoms improved, the liver and the look is simply too fat to continue living like that.

I have no answers nor strong opinions to bring; just prayers for all of us to get clarity and epic health.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@xeliex I don’t have neither the scientific background, nor the time to dedicate endless hours of reading the literature. I just want to find something that works.
My guess is that while Peat may be right on his view of hormones and how everything is interconnected, but he is likely wrong or doesn’t have the answers on effective measures to get to that ideal state.
The carrot salad is just a band-aid, it’s never gonna fix your gut, it’s never gonna pull you out of estrogen dominance.
Most Peat wisdom is ineffective, and not powerful.
All the measures he talks about Estrogen reduction, don’t really work in a powerful way.
Trying to lower your cortisol, or your Serotonin is most likely a very wrong approach. You will always return to your baseline, sick state.
Eating pounds of sugar is not going to permanently lower your stress hormones, it’s just another band-aid.

 

[reaching]

I like listen to the old stuttering man say whimsical nutrition and science thingies. He is interesting to listen to and has interesting ideas. It’s obvious people in mainstream have latched on to his ideas that have been promoted by others more interested in selling his ideas than he is.

I do find the rear end licking some people give him here a bit embarrassing or cringe. It’s like okay…that’s a bit much. Pull your tongue out of his rear end. I like this forum for the ideas and challenging your beliefs type of thing. I think I get more out of other people’s posts on here than I do listening to 2 hours of Peat mumbling about communicating with cats telepathically cause he’s so jacked on thyroid. That being said, I think healthy people applying his ideas would not need a forum or would be avert to spending time on here. Wasn’t there another Ray peat forum? Maybe all the healthy people are there ha.

 

[sunny]

I think sometimes we are putting on bandaid, until we can get better, or maybe to just keep from getting worse.

Do you have health insurance? A basic yearly will give you liver enzyme tests. You can tell the doctor you have xyz symptoms, and they will be obligated to get you xyz tests.

I agree with the person above, daily morning and evening sun makes a big difference, avoiding phone and wifi emf as much as possible.

I'm sure you are probably not eating crap food, alcohol is a huge strain on the liver, prioritize sleep, have a sleep routine, blue blocking glasses, red filter on your TV, what is your environment like? If it's bad, can you change it?

What are your iron markers? I had high saturation but brought that down while following Peat principles. I think it was the milk and aspirin, not really sure.

Just some ideas. It is tedious. Everything is not perfect for me, but I am better off than I was.

I don't have a scientific background either. I read and reread Peat articles because I will understand more each time, because I have increased my knowledge base. I read them while I am in the sun.

Don't take this wrong, but when you say you don't have time to read and learn, you just want something that works- I think that is an unrealistic expectation. No one can just fix it for you, especially a free forum.

 

[Dr. B]

I’ve been on this forum for 3 years now. At first, I thought I stumbled across some hidden, esoteric superior knowledge on physiology, hormones, nutrition.
As time went by, I noticed more and more overwhelmingly negative reports. Pro-metabolic nutrition didn’t work. People just got fat and estrogenic in the name of “healing”.
The largest thread on this forum is Anti-Peat. Danny Roddy wrote an ebook for hairloss, has no results/ testimonials to show for, and profits from consulting.
Haidut’s supplements don’t really work either, nobody can get thyroid hormones working long-term. Nobody raises their T levels from taking Pansterone. Carrot salat is just a band-aid.
People wrecking their dental health eating sugar. People losing their hair from high dose K2.
People getting type 1 diabetics from peating.
Claims that caffeine heals the liver, but it doesn’t really work.
Ray’s critical thinking is questionable.
People that do get better, most often not because of Peat principles, but because of applying a different kind of advice.
Seems to me that everyone is in denial on this forum.

Stay tuned for Part 2.

most supplements dont work and are harmful. Peat doesnt really approve of any supplements either. thyroid increases cortisol. dessicated thyroid is safer.
have you tried an all milk, whey protein and fruit juice, honey diet

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I don’t have neither the scientific background, nor the time to dedicate endless hours of reading the literature. I just want to find something that works.

You don’t have Time to invest into the most important thing in life: health.

And this you want a quick, spoonfed solution to your issues. Then when you apply ideas to unknown stringency and method, you blame Ray Peat or the forum for the failure. Despite you being not even capable of judging the underlying science.

Most Peat wisdom is ineffective, and not powerful.

I disagree

Trying to lower your cortisol, or your Serotonin is most likely a very wrong approach. You will always return to your baseline, sick state.

definitely wrong

 

[jomamma007]

What I've noticed personally and anecdotally, is that when people get sick they stop doing the things they enjoy. They then find some health group or forum, and there life gets obsessed with how they feel. Every interaction with food, supplements, environment etc is noted, and they restrain from anything that might make them feel worse. I've seen you post all over the forum and try many things over the last few years with some success. Sometimes, you haven't gotten to the root cause, and that doesn't always require some supplement etc. Doing things that work for you , and living your life, is most important IMO. I understand that you might not be able to do all of the things you currently desire, but there are always things you can do and find enjoyment in. For somebody that might be taking thyroid, another it could be therapy, another it could be quitting their job or breaking up with their spouse. You shouldn't underestimate the rest of your environment if no other changes seem to be effective.

 

[Puffyjacket]

Maybe you can get some better help from Nathan Hatchs book "**** portion control". Its the single most practical piece of information i have read that is rooted in Peats philosophy + more. The guy cured a whole bunch of stuff in himself and others like hypothyroidism, cancer, overweight, alchoholism, hair loss, trauma, ED, ++
He fills in a lot of the holes of information from Peat that i have been missing.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Wanna get your metabolism up? Develop a habit of regular exercise, preferably aerobic. Regular aerobic exercise remodels your vascular system making for more efficient system-wide metabolism. In other words, more blood flow to every cell of your body.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Wanna eat healthy? Eat what your body tells you to eat. If that contradicts what someone says you should eat, ignore them. What works for one person may not work for another.

 

[Dr. B]

Wanna eat healthy? Eat what your body tells you to eat. If that contradicts what someone says you should eat, ignore them. What works for one person may not work for another.

lots of PUFA foods can taste good. lots of icecreams with carrageenan etc taste good.

regarding the cardio, it has to be kept to a limit, I have actually stopped losing weight despite adding in more cardio, and I have actually lost weight and maintained weight from maintaining the same diet but dropping all cardio. cardio can increase cortisol so in certain scenarios, its better to not do it. for example no cardio is better than excess cardio metabolically. smaller amounts cardio are likely better than none

 

[Perry Staltic]

lots of PUFA foods can taste good. lots of icecreams with carrageenan etc taste good.

regarding the cardio, it has to be kept to a limit, I have actually stopped losing weight despite adding in more cardio, and I have actually lost weight and maintained weight from maintaining the same diet but dropping all cardio. cardio can increase cortisol so in certain scenarios, its better to not do it. for example no cardio is better than excess cardio metabolically. smaller amounts cardio are likely better than none

It's not a matter of taste, but of what your body says it wants/needs. If some PUFA, so be it. In all things, moderation. Better to give the body what it wants/needs rather live by some ideology that denies it what it wants/needs for optimum health. Learn to listen and the body will teach what to eat.

Everything has to be kept to a limit. Let each person find what works for them

 

[SamYo123]

@xeliex I don’t have neither the scientific background, nor the time to dedicate endless hours of reading the literature. I just want to find something that works.
My guess is that while Peat may be right on his view of hormones and how everything is interconnected, but he is likely wrong or doesn’t have the answers on effective measures to get to that ideal state.
The carrot salad is just a band-aid, it’s never gonna fix your gut, it’s never gonna pull you out of estrogen dominance.
Most Peat wisdom is ineffective, and not powerful.
All the measures he talks about Estrogen reduction, don’t really work in a powerful way.
Trying to lower your cortisol, or your Serotonin is most likely a very wrong approach. You will always return to your baseline, sick state.
Eating pounds of sugar is not going to permanently lower your stress hormones, it’s just another band-aid.

Durianrider eats about 300g of white sugar sucrose a day

 

[LadyRae]

@xeliex I don’t have neither the scientific background, nor the time to dedicate endless hours of reading the literature. I just want to find something that works.
My guess is that while Peat may be right on his view of hormones and how everything is interconnected, but he is likely wrong or doesn’t have the answers on effective measures to get to that ideal state.
The carrot salad is just a band-aid, it’s never gonna fix your gut, it’s never gonna pull you out of estrogen dominance.
Most Peat wisdom is ineffective, and not powerful.
All the measures he talks about Estrogen reduction, don’t really work in a powerful way.
Trying to lower your cortisol, or your Serotonin is most likely a very wrong approach. You will always return to your baseline, sick state.
Eating pounds of sugar is not going to permanently lower your stress hormones, it’s just another band-aid.

Sounds to me like all of this health stuff is just stressing you out further. I think that stress, or more importantly, the lack of stress is the most important thing for health and personal well-being.

I originally came to this forum because I had screwed myself up a few years ago with keto and intermittent fasting and too much high intensity exercise. I won a few marathons and I thought I was on top of the world, but then the crash was excruciating. I healed by just chilling out on so many levels.

Now I enjoy reading posts here and learning about all sorts of stuff because I think that deep down my true interest lies in exploring all sorts of ways to feel good. Health and fitness are kind of a hobby for me. I'm also kind of naturally a rebel so I enjoy all the banter and I like non mainstream methods.

Some previous comments that resonate with me suggest just doing what feels right to you. Don't stick it out with a certain modality if it annoys you or doesn't feel right. I'd recommend getting out on a long distance backpacking trip somewhere for a few weeks and just checking out for a while.,.