ORN 4_19_21: mRNA Vaccine Dangers, Immunity, Nutrition

[gaze]

That study addresses metabolic and work efficiencies during exercise. It's not rigorous science to equate those with increased lifespans. In fact it's not science at all.

you can't separate the two. a benefit now is a benefit for later. what exactly are you looking for? that altitude leads to longer life spans or that co2 is the reason for the longer life span?

 

[Perry Staltic]

you can't separate the two. a benefit now is a benefit for later. what exactly are you looking for? that altitude leads to longer life spans or that co2 is the reason for the longer life span?

What I'm looking for is specific research that supports directly, not indirectly as you're trying to do, this claim Ray made in the third paragraph. As far as I'm concerned, until I see research that directly confirms this, it's bull****:

RP (30:04)- Moving to a 8,000 or 9,000 feet altitude. Leadville Colorado if you can adapt to it. The heart disease, cancer, and dementia rate goes down every thousand feet higher you live in altitude, the lower the cancer and heart disease.

PT (30:24)- Wow is that right? So just because more CO2 is retained?

RP (): Right

 

[grithin]

You make some good points about vitamin C flushes, which should create the same effect in our bodies but don’t. Perhaps the free radical production is different in our bodies than it is in a jar of distilled water.

While I can’t find the study Peat references, there’s evidence that ascorbic acid chelates and binds with copper and iron, leading to free radical production.

Trying to Solve the Puzzle of the Interaction of Ascorbic Acid and Iron: Redox, Chelation and Therapeutic Implications

Iron and ascorbic acid (vitamin C) are essential nutrients for the normal growth and development of humans, and their deficiency can result in serious diseases. Their interaction is of nutritional, physiological, pharmacological and toxicological interest, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

From the abstract:

“ Ascorbic acid and its metabolites, including the ascorbate anion and oxalate, have metal binding capacity and bind iron, copper and other metals. The biological roles of ascorbate as a vitamin are affected by metal complexation, in particular following binding with iron and copper. Ascorbate forms a complex with Fe3+ followed by reduction to Fe2+, which may potentiate free radical production.”

That was a useful paper on Vit C and Iron.
I had assumed that Peat was skipping a step and exaggerating a little, and your reference supports my assumption.

There are many biological implications of the interactions of the ascorbate–iron complexes with cellular and sub-cellular components. In particular, the effect on iron transport through ascorbate–iron complexes in cells appears to be of physiological and toxicological importance. In this context, it was suggested that there are several routes of iron accumulation in cells, including the ascorbate-dependent ferrous iron uptake via the divalent metal transporter (DMT1), plus an independent route for ferric iron uptake [39,99]. For example, it was previously demonstrated that the reduction of ferric iron by ascorbic acid provides bioavailable ferrous iron to DMT1, and also directly enhances the uptake of ferric iron into Caco-2 cells through the formation of an Fe3+–ascorbate complex [109]. The Caco-2 cell line consists of human epithelial colorectal adenocarcinoma cells, which are generally used as an in vitro model of the human small intestinal mucosa to predict the absorption of orally administered drugs [109]. Two routes of iron accumulation have also been shown in studies with astrocytes, one involving the ascorbate-dependent ferrous iron uptake via DMT1, and the other an independent route for ferric iron uptake [110]. Since DMT1 is not involved in the uptake of ferric iron complexes, it is suspected that a different transporter system is in operation, similar to the mode of action observed by lipophilic chelators, which can facilitate the transport of ferric iron across cell membranes as previously shown in in vitro cell studies [111,112].

IE, you have a greater uptake of iron into cells, which, via vitamin C, remains as Fe+2, and, when introduced to H202 in the cell, will result in a fenton reaction, and lead to lipid peroxidation.

This is not, however, vitamin c - iron complexes causing "instant" lipid peroxidation. I also expect, given the wide use of vitamin c as a supplement, that the significance of this chain of reactions is not as dire as Peat made it out to be in the quote.

will inevitably find some Polyunsaturated fat to make rancid instantly, so the combination of a trace of Copper or Iron plus Vitamin C, plus fat creates extreme lipid peroxidation

Instead, I expect this to be part of the therapeutic use of vitamin c in cancer, where, if I recall, iron and H2O2 are abnormally high. From the paper:

In contrast, in some cases the pro-oxidant activity of ascorbic acid can be considered a positive factor in cancer therapy, especially if used in combination with other anticancer agents such as the redox active quinone chelators [57,120,121].

 

[Vileplume]

That was a useful paper on Vit C and Iron.
I had assumed that Peat was skipping a step and exaggerating a little, and your reference supports my assumption.



IE, you have a greater uptake of iron into cells, which, via vitamin C, remains as Fe+2, and, when introduced to H202 in the cell, will result in a fenton reaction, and lead to lipid peroxidation.

This is not, however, vitamin c - iron complexes causing "instant" lipid peroxidation. I also expect, given the wide use of vitamin c as a supplement, that the significance of this chain of reactions is not as dire as Peat made it out to be in the quote.



Instead, I expect this to be part of the therapeutic use of vitamin c in cancer, where, if I recall, iron and H2O2 are abnormally high. From the paper:

Thanks for breaking down the paper and connecting it to what Peat said, in regard to lipid peroxidation. This discussion led me to look more deeply into the mechanisms behind his claims, like you yourself sought, because my understanding of cell biology is still burgeoning.

I also regret saying “did you read the whole thing?” in my comment to you, @Perry Staltic , because that denoted an accusatory tone that implied I myself had a deep and certain understanding of these mechanisms, which I don’t, although I understand them a bit better now.

 

[Perry Staltic]

I also regret saying “did you read the whole thing?” in my comment to you, @Perry Staltic , because that denoted an accusatory tone that implied I myself had a deep and certain understanding of these mechanisms, which I don’t, although I understand them a bit better now.

No need for regrets. I appreciate your sensitivity.

 

[Missenger]

What I'm looking for is specific research that supports directly, not indirectly as you're trying to do, this claim Ray made in the third paragraph. As far as I'm concerned, until I see research that directly confirms this, it's bull****:

He's referred to a Russian study about chemotherapy, tumors and rats several times and has used it to express his mindset but I could never find it.

 

[Nemo]

What I'm looking for is specific research that supports directly, not indirectly as you're trying to do, this claim Ray made in the third paragraph. As far as I'm concerned, until I see research that directly confirms this, it's bull****:

More likely, you're just bull****, Perry.

I've already told you there are plenty of studies. You're just too lazy to look them up and like to posture.

 

[Perry Staltic]

More likely, you're just bull****, Perry.

I've already told you there are plenty of studies. You're just too lazy to look them up and like to posture.

Yet you're incapable of producing one, so perhaps you're the lazy one. But what I suspect is more accurate is that you know such a study doesn't exist, or can't find one, and have simply resorted to attacking me because I called your bluff.

 

[Nemo]

Yet you're incapable of producing one, so perhaps you're the lazy one. But what I suspect is more accurate is that you know such a study doesn't exist, or can't find one, and have simply resorted to attacking me because I called your bluff.

No, I'm unwilling to do the work at the moment. It takes a long time to look up relevant studies, explain why they are relevant, and explain why they support Ray's claim.

And I told you I was unwilling to do the work at the moment. When I first found Ray, I looked into this, and found plenty of studies supporting his claim. So I am passing that info along to you so you can refrain from looking so obnoxious and half-witted.

You are essentially calling Dr. Peat either an incompetent or a bullsh*tter, when he has proven himself over and over again, is very careful in his advice to people, and has been nothing but generous in giving away critical info.

Go eat some PUFAs, Perry.

 

[Perry Staltic]

You are essentially calling Dr. Peat either an incompetent or a bullsh*tter, when he has proven himself over and over again, is very careful in his advice to people, and has been nothing but generous in giving away critical info.

No, I said I will consider his comment to be bull**** until I see actual research directly supporting his claim. It sounds like simplistic BS to me. I don't care who he is, or what people think of him. I follow the data. That's what any real scientist does.

 

[Peatful]

This is what I call sloppy science. Ray has no data for this, nor has he done research to support his point, yet he speaks confidantly. That's not how science works. It's also true that for every 1000 ft higher in altitude, populations and environmental toxins become sparser because industries and concomitant populations concentrate at lower altitudes. That's a huge confounding factor which makes it unwise for him to speak with such certainty.

Protective Altitude – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Looks like studies linked here?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Protective Altitude – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Looks like studies linked here?

Thanks. I'll take a look at them.

 

[meatbag]

What I'm looking for is specific research that supports directly, not indirectly as you're trying to do, this claim Ray made in the third paragraph. As far as I'm concerned, until I see research that directly confirms this, it's bull****:

You're looking for the population data on lower incidence of heart disease, cancer and dementia at increasing altitudes?