Is pro-metabolic nutrition just another fad or a cult?

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
I’ve been on this forum for 3 years now. At first, I thought I stumbled across some hidden, esoteric superior knowledge on physiology, hormones, nutrition.
As time went by, I noticed more and more overwhelmingly negative reports. Pro-metabolic nutrition didn’t work. People just got fat and estrogenic in the name of “healing”.
The largest thread on this forum is Anti-Peat. Danny Roddy wrote an ebook for hairloss, has no results/ testimonials to show for, and profits from consulting.
Haidut’s supplements don’t really work either, nobody can get thyroid hormones working long-term. Nobody raises their T levels from taking Pansterone. Carrot salat is just a band-aid.
People wrecking their dental health eating sugar. People losing their hair from high dose K2.
People getting type 1 diabetics from peating.
Claims that caffeine heals the liver, but it doesn’t really work.
Ray’s critical thinking is questionable.
People that do get better, most often not because of Peat principles, but because of applying a different kind of advice.
Seems to me that everyone is in denial on this forum.

Stay tuned for Part 2.
 

Peatful

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
3,582
To answer your question:
Yes. Of course it is.

This has nothing to do with Peat. Nor his teachings, writings, recommendations, life’s work etc.


And you are incorrect.
He saved my life.
I am well and alive because of him and said teachings, books, articles etc.


Sounds like you simply need time off the internet- and or probably this forum?
 

JamesGatz

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
3,189
Location
USA
Ray Peat is unironically right about everything - If anyone here is in denial it is you

The only issue with the RP community is that "health" extends way more than diet/supplements and thats why people like you only focus on that and are lost when they don't get better

Also - I like when people on this forum bring up "gaining weight" like its a bad thing

Have you ever noticed the weight of the elderly in nursing homes, dying hospital patients are all skinny/scrawny skeletons, they all have NO weight to them?

And then I have something better - any healthy primate in the wild weighs 400+ pounds with massive ribcages, arms, legs that can snap thick tree branches with minimal effort - they are the same height or actually shorter than people and weigh twice as much - that weight isn't from "getting fat" its from massive bones

The issue is people here can't even tell the difference between their ribcage expanding and "getting fat"

In the real world - their exist plenty of people who are "peating" without knowing it and there's plenty of people here thinking they are "peating" because they avoid PUFA when they are not

When you single out someone like Danny Roddy - I respect dude but in my view he is not peating - he only eats wet/damp food and barely eats any calories - by definition his metabolism is not processing as many cals as he should be - No disrespect to Danny whatsoever I respect him a lot but you're a clown bringing up specific people claiming it doesn't work

Every mammalian species in the world:

1) Grows out their hair (this includes facial hair)
2) Grows out their nails
3) Lives in Nature
4) Is grounded
5) Eats whatever they want
6) Is not exposed to any toxic/estrogenic clothing/shoe materials
7) Is inna healthy social environment
8) doesn't use toxic shampoo/soap that disrupts the endocrine system
9) doesn't have a stressful job/school

Etc, etc.
 

LuMonty

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
426
I browsed your post history to get an idea what you struggle with. Stand-outs are protein digestion, fat digestion, salt retention, and estrogen conversion (as you claim).

All of these except maybe fat digestion are specifically mentioned by Peat as hypothyroid symptoms, which I can also personally attest. I've dealt with fat digestion issues, which I handle by eating limited fat but using bile acids and espresso to stimulate bile. I had liver flukes so it's unclear how much scarring I have and if full recovery is possible.

What I find alarming is it seems that only just last month in June did you question if stomach acid is needed for protein digestion. If you have bad digestion, no combination of pro-metabolic foods will have any effect, especially with the corresponding endotoxin. Low stomach acid is a classic hypothyroid symptom. I also saw your post about having trouble retaining sodium; it's incredible to me you could diss Ray when he has said in numerous interviews and articles that it's a marker of poor thyroid function.

I have to wonder how much of Ray's work you've actually read.

From my POV, you've tried very little and you're all out of ideas.
 
OP
G

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
Yeah, I'm not buying anymore the "everything is caused by hypothyroidism" angle. Unless one has Hashimoto or has had a thyroidectomy, they thyroid is probably not the problem.
 
OP
G

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
I have to wonder how much of Ray's work you've actually read.
That's the problem with this forum. Ray is absolved of any judgement. His principles are immune to criticism.
Oh, you're having problems with X hormones/ pro-metabolic substance? Your thyroid is too low/ cortisol too high/ Vitamin D too low/ endotoxin too high.
It's never-ending. There's always something that needs to be worked on, something that can be further optimized.

In contrast, if you see an anecdote of someone doing bad with cod liver oil or whatever Morley Robbins principle, you guys are always quick to dismiss him/ mock him or look down on his teachings. You never care about context when it comes to criticizing someone else than Ray, but when someone criticizes Ray, you quickly jump to defend him.
 
OP
G

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
Didn’t you use thyroid for a while too? And it didn’t really help?
It never worked consistently.
I realized that taking thyroid hormone is absolutely not the right approach to heal from hypo, it's like pushing the has pedal on the metabolism when nutrient levels are not in balance.
 

LuMonty

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
426
That's the problem with this forum. Ray is absolved of any judgement. His principles are immune to criticism.
Oh, you're having problems with X hormones/ pro-metabolic substance? Your thyroid is too low/ cortisol too high/ Vitamin D too low/ endotoxin too high.
It's never-ending. There's always something that needs to be worked on, something that can be further optimized.

In contrast, if you see an anecdote of someone doing bad with cod liver oil or whatever Morley Robbins principle, you guys are always quick to dismiss him/ mock him or look down on his teachings. You never care about context when it comes to criticizing someone else than Ray, but when someone criticizes Ray, you quickly jump to defend him.
You haven't put forth a criticism, is there anything you have in mind? Seeing as you haven't even stuck with thyroid I don't know how you can claim it doesn't work.

And yeah, the human body is always working in some fashion so there's always something to handle. What's your point?

And I'm not "you guys" so you should save your dishonest generalizations.
 

LuMonty

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
426
Stuck? I tried it for months with continued use and only saw muscle loss and signs of nutrient depletion.
Well that's different. I can't guarantee that I can help but this is something workable. Too much T4 becomes reverse T3. You probably know that, but it bares repeating. From your log you used much more T4 than T3. Too much rT3 from the T4 will outcompete the T3 that you make and/or supplement. So a much lower amount of T4 or even none at all could be the answer. Also, just to make sure, getting enough protein and calcium to support muscle and bone. If the amounts you were using were pro-metabolic, you could still degenerate without enough nutrients/calories.
 

DeadCatBounce

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Messages
174
Location
West Side
I’ve been on this forum for 3 years now. At first, I thought I stumbled across some hidden, esoteric superior knowledge on physiology, hormones, nutrition.
As time went by, I noticed more and more overwhelmingly negative reports. Pro-metabolic nutrition didn’t work. People just got fat and estrogenic in the name of “healing”.
The largest thread on this forum is Anti-Peat. Danny Roddy wrote an ebook for hairloss, has no results/ testimonials to show for, and profits from consulting.
Haidut’s supplements don’t really work either, nobody can get thyroid hormones working long-term. Nobody raises their T levels from taking Pansterone. Carrot salat is just a band-aid.
People wrecking their dental health eating sugar. People losing their hair from high dose K2.
People getting type 1 diabetics from peating.
Claims that caffeine heals the liver, but it doesn’t really work.
Ray’s critical thinking is questionable.
People that do get better, most often not because of Peat principles, but because of applying a different kind of advice.
Seems to me that everyone is in denial on this forum.

Stay tuned for Part 2.
I have a very kind suggestion for you, as you sound frustrated due to lack of proper results- take whatever makes sense TO YOU and leave the rest. Treat every source of information the same way,understand the idea and move on to something new while keeping what works. You say you've spent 3 years on something that does not work for you. You could have seen if it works in the first 12 months. Why bother for another two years ?? You are wasting your time.

Ray and Haidut are a treasure of knowledge and I've incorporated some of the ideas in my daily life but there are things I do not agree with. Some of them being core concepts. We are all humans with limited knowledge, even Ray. Every source of health info I've researched has downsides and is flawed in one way or another. They all seem to know their stuff until their health turns bad and then they die like all of us at around 100 years old. There are still a few key pieces of knowledge missing and it is not the next pill, hormone or superfood.
 
Last edited:

Kram

Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
382
IMO, you haven't figured out the root cause(s) of your health problems. Don't you have gut and liver issues? Have you ever tested for heavy metal toxicity (or some other type of toxin) - these can cause all sorts of issues? Maybe there is something in your environment causing problems. Maybe you have a nutrient deficiency or imbalances and/or insulin resistance.

There is obviously something(s) that is causing you to be hypo. I agree though, taking thyroid isn't going to work for everyone and much of the information on this forum isn't focused on addressing the root causes of health problems. Taking serotonin antagonists, preg/dhea etc. seems kinda worthless to me (for most people, at least) the more I have thought about it.
 

LeeLemonoil

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
4,265
I have a very kind suggestion for you, as you sound frustrated due to lack of proper results- take whatever makes sense TO YOU and leave the rest. Treat every source of information the same way,understand the idea and move on to something new while keeping what works. You say you've spent 3 years on something that does not work for you. You could have seen if it works in the first 12 months. Why bother for another two years ?? You are wasting your time.

Ray and Haidut are a treasure of knowledge and I've incorporated some of the ideas in my daily life but there are things I do not agree with. Some of them being core concepts. We are all humans with limited knowledge, even Ray. Every source of health info I've researched has downsides and is flawed in one way or another. They all seem to know their stuff until their health turns bad and then they die like all of us at around 100 years old. There are still a few key pieces of knowledge missing and it is not the next pill, hormone or superfood.

Nobody is omniscient or infallible.

Also we can only know so much given what has been researched. Ray Peat too was and is dependent on research conducted by others. His extraordinary talent and merit is that he never swam with the mainstream when his intellect, intuition and integrity forbid it.

He saw through a lot of lies or nonsense in the life sciences and ventured on his own path which enabled him to further refine his intuition - when his personal convictions were disproven by experience, additional data and research or it didn’t square anymore with his model of thinking, he adapted and rearranged. What sounds mundane is actually a rare skill and talent.

Still, I think even Peat had some dogmatic blind spots: to him, Hormesis is a dubious concept. I personally (and big chunks of science) think it’s a basic principle.

Interestingly, especially in the recent years, Peat changed his view on that too it seems.
He has acknowledged a handful of the current mainstream anti-aging research principles:
Methionine restriction (he proposed that long before mainstream) but expanded to a general protein reduction, especially in older age. He didn’t propose that before.

He change his views on DHEA

I think where he still is a bit off is roundhouse Niacinamide recommendation without context.

This forum was too dogmatic in my view on androgens without context.

Still, Ray Peat has given this world invaluable knowledge and example. A great man and researcher, philosopher.
 
Joined
Feb 9, 2022
Messages
73
Age
21
Location
Russia
I’ve been on this forum for 3 years now. At first, I thought I stumbled across some hidden, esoteric superior knowledge on physiology, hormones, nutrition.
As time went by, I noticed more and more overwhelmingly negative reports. Pro-metabolic nutrition didn’t work. People just got fat and estrogenic in the name of “healing”.
The largest thread on this forum is Anti-Peat. Danny Roddy wrote an ebook for hairloss, has no results/ testimonials to show for, and profits from consulting.
Haidut’s supplements don’t really work either, nobody can get thyroid hormones working long-term. Nobody raises their T levels from taking Pansterone. Carrot salat is just a band-aid.
People wrecking their dental health eating sugar. People losing their hair from high dose K2.
People getting type 1 diabetics from peating.
Claims that caffeine heals the liver, but it doesn’t really work.
Ray’s critical thinking is questionable.
People that do get better, most often not because of Peat principles, but because of applying a different kind of advice.
Seems to me that everyone is in denial on this forum.

Stay tuned for Part 2.
Reading Ray's articles, applying the fundamental principles learned from the information he gives, I also had no effect. My health continues to deteriorate and I don't know what to do next. I am 19 years old, and I feel like a dying old man, dreaming of suicide every day.
Never try vegan, keto, carnivore and fasting - it killed me.
 

DeadCatBounce

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Messages
174
Location
West Side
Reading Ray's articles, applying the fundamental principles learned from the information he gives, I also had no effect. My health continues to deteriorate and I don't know what to do next. I am 19 years old, and I feel like a dying old man, dreaming of suicide every day.
Never try vegan, keto, carnivore and fasting - it killed me.
Read from another thread you did steroids while being only 18-19yo. Did you issues start before or after the use of steroids ? What kind of issues do you have besides the chubby cheeks ?

I was too struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts when I was your age. First thing when I wake up and last thing when I was going to bed was thinking I want to die. Those kind of mental diseases are hard to fix but they do get better if persistent and eventually go away. Are you doing drugs, smoking pot or something of this sort ?
 

sunny

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
886
Do you do any bloodwork? Take pulse and Temps? It is a marathon fir sure, not a sprint. As a female, Ray Peat advice on progesterone and estrogen has been life changing. In the area of thyroid- I don't have one. It was demolished by the medical establishment. So I am dependent on replacement thyroid hormone. You would think that would be simple- it is not. There is constant accessing of whether I have all the cofactor to optimize it. I am currently experimenting with just a quarter of a cynoplus at bedtime and small amounts of t3 throughout the day. It is tedious to take it that way- but I have no choice without a thyroid gland. I don't know the manner in which you took the t3 that caused palpitations, but in some interview Ray talked about that. Also, taking too much at one time consistently will cause your liver to just excrete it. Personally, I felt the best on NDT, natural desiccated thyroid, but those products have had production problems for years now. I will be trying the idea labs not on the recommendation of a forum member. I don't think that there is any one specific thing that will work for everyone 100% of the time. I do annual bloodwork- extensive amounts, probably overkill, but I find it interesting. After 20 years of testing thyroid antibodies (hyper after pregnancy, thyroid killed with RAI, antibodies for hashi and hyper subsided to normal years ago) I had a remaining antibody test that was still always high- the TgAB. Every year high. I always read things to find an answer for that. Then, this year, it was in the normal range. Trying to figure that out. ?. I have been in the jack Kruse and Morley arenas. I took some info from there that worked for me. No one has THE answer. It us your personal quest and you must have patience. And that is the hard part.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom