Is Fiber Really All That Bad?

[Westside PUFAs]

I don't recall Ray Peat saying saturated fats as being bad in the way PUFAs are. So, I'm surprised that you would link saturated fats with a host of health problems. Ray Peat may not like pork fat because he thinks pigs eat food that contain plenty of PUFAs and pork fat would contain plenty of PUFAs, but his aversion to pork fat is not tantamount to an aversion to saturated fat. Coconut oil is a saturated fat, but Ray likes it for many reasons.

I may start to eat potatoes now, seeing that it isn't as bad as what I thought it was, having come from the school of glycemic indexing and having potatoes deemed unhealthy from its high glycemic index. Now I can bring out my Fissler food mill from storage and start making mashed potatoes with it. I don't know if I'll want to eat it without accompaniments such as butter and sour cream, as I'm not used to eating it plain. I really think that I ought to enjoy what I eat, and if there's no healthful reason to keep me from enjoying my food, I wouldn't want to. And butter isn't unhealthful to eat.

I don't think in terms of low-fat, or low-carb. I laugh at this country that went crazy with low-fat and got bulding waistlines in return. I now laugh at low-carb because the country went the other way because low-fat made them fat, a tribal knee-jerk reaction. And I laugh at myself for believing that taking simple sugars is bad, only to learn that my healthy lifestyle of taking EFAs religiously only made be worse off in dealing with simple sugars. Just when I thought I had figured out a healthy lifestyle of eating, Ray Peat comes along and throws my comfort level off once again, and I have to relearn everything I once knew to be gospel truth.

I get that this forum is not where one comes to find straight answers from one or a few experts. There are a lot of opinions more than facts floating around. And that is fine with me. And I'm fine that I'm called out if I say something that is already dated information, or for being simply wrong. In fact, I appreciate that, as hard as it is for my ego. I just hope that I can come out from this forum with more facts than opinions, and better informed than confused.

Anyway, from this thread I'm thankful that I've learned that fiber isn't the simple answer to digestive health- a belief I had since childhood. I'm not quite ready to ditch fiber though, as I find brown rice suits me better than white rice, not in taste, but in terms of my blood sugar and insulin response. But now I won't be thinking someone is strange, or simply doesn't get it, if he says white rice suits him better health-wise. Maybe as I learn more from Ray Peat and this forum, my digestion and my body's metabolism of glucose will improve, such that I will eventually prefer white rice over brown. But maybe not, as I have yet to find out if it will harm me if I miss out on the b-vitamins that brown rice provides.

You must have not read these peat quotes:

Why Do I Find Dairy Fat To Be Particularly Fattening?

Some other ones:
"If the basic foods were chosen for minimal unsaturated fats, then coconut oil wouldn't add much of value."

"Just about everything that goes wrong involves FFA increase. If they are totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose and turning on various stress related things; By lowering the carbon dioxide production I think is the main mechanism."

And the idea that the country ate "low fat" is a myth. We never lowered fat. We've increased it and we've increased everything overall. Just because there were a few grocery products that were labeled low fat doesn't mean that people that became obese actually ate low fat. They've increased their fat intake mainly from two sources, oil and dairy fat. Cheese added to the inside of the crust of the pizza. On the pizza itself wasn't enough.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Also, "if you're gaining inches instead of muscle," (meaning inches on your waist as in your belly is getting bigger), "then you're probably eating too much fat and overall calories." from one of the east west shows.

 

[schultz]

Honestly, most people here have a lot of health problems. Otherwise they wouldn't be here, would they?

Not necessarily true! I have zero health problems. I'm here because I don't want to develop any in the future. Also, I want my kids to be healthy. I guided my wife through her 2 pregnancies and she had zero problems with them! (I'm so proud of her) She gave birth in our living room to an 8lbs 10oz girl and 2-1/2 years later to a 9lbs 6oz boy. Both healthy with no health problems. I think the information I've learned from the podcasts, Ray's website and this forum helped significantly.

I also enjoy learning and since nutrition is such a huge social topic now and misinformation is rampant, it can be a good idea to equip yourself with a bit of knowledge.

I'm not sick, just proactive. I'm guessing there are a lot of healthy people here.

 

[schultz]

I am curious as to how much fibre people on this forum tend to eat on average? Does anybody track their nutrition? Myself, I got 29g of fibre yesterday from fruit and instant coffee, though according to my cronometer it is an above average day.

 

[lollipop]

Not necessarily true! I have zero health problems. I'm here because I don't want to develop any in the future. Also, I want my kids to be healthy. I guided my wife through her 2 pregnancies and she had zero problems with them! (I'm so proud of her) She gave birth in our living room to an 8lbs 10oz girl and 2-1/2 years later to a 9lbs 6oz boy. Both healthy with no health problems. I think the information I've learned from the podcasts, Ray's website and this forum helped significantly.

I also enjoy learning and since nutrition is such a huge social topic now and misinformation is rampant, it can be a good idea to equip yourself with a bit of knowledge.

I'm not sick, just proactive. I'm guessing there are a lot of healthy people here.

This.

 

[Richiebogie]

Ray Peat talks about rats with sterile guts living much longer.

I think this was achieved by using antibiotics and near zero fibre.

He also tells of a farmer that cured his stunted pigs by feeding them charcoal.

I think Peat attributed both benefits from reducing endotoxin.

Lowering transit time could reduce endotoxin and help elimination of toxins your body dumps in the intestines.

Fruitarians are supposed to have fast transit times. A test you can do is to swallow fresh corn kernels or eat beetroot or sesame seeds - something you don't eat every day which you can identify in your stool.

From What Does Your Bowel Transit Time Say About Your Health?

"A daily bowel movement does not necessarily indicate a healthy colon. Even if you are having a bowel movement every day, you still could be suffering from constipation. Without doing a bowel transit test, you could be unknowingly eliminating something you ate 4 or 5 days ago. The longer a meal remains inside the colon, the longer toxins and putrefaction of digesting food have time to do damage."

 

[yerrag]

I am curious as to how much fibre people on this forum tend to eat on average? Does anybody track their nutrition? Myself, I got 29g of fibre yesterday from fruit and instant coffee, though according to my cronometer it is an above average day.

I wanted to track these information, but it becomes impractical for me. I just eat when I'm hungry, and just try my best to get good protein, carbs, fats, with enough fiber, enzymes, vitamins, and minerals.

 

[yerrag]

Ray Peat talks about rats with sterile guts living much longer.

I think this was achieved by using antibiotics and near zero fibre.

He also tells of a farmer that cured his stunted pigs by feeding them charcoal.

I think Peat attributed both benefits from reducing endotoxin.

Lowering transit time could reduce endotoxin and help elimination of toxins your body dumps in the intestines.

Fruitarians are supposed to have fast transit times. A test you can do is to swallow fresh corn kernels or eat beetroot or sesame seeds - something you don't eat every day which you can identify in your stool.

From What Does Your Bowel Transit Time Say About Your Health?

"A daily bowel movement does not necessarily indicate a healthy colon. Even if you are having a bowel movement every day, you still could be suffering from constipation. Without doing a bowel transit test, you could be unknowingly eliminating something you ate 4 or 5 days ago. The longer a meal remains inside the colon, the longer toxins and putrefaction of digesting food have time to do damage."

Interesting information, though it troubles me quite a bit.

I wonder if we could actually live with sterile guts if we don't live in a sterile bubble, which may be the conditions the lab rats lived in. But perhaps that is not the point.

The key word for me here is "reducing endotoxins." Can we have bacteria in our guts without the endotoxins? I have the impression that endotoxins come mostly from pathogenic bacteria, but what do I know? My only experience with endotoxins is the ones that come from the anaerobic bacteria that resides in teeth that have undergone a root canal operation. The root canal is supposed to be sealed off and sterile, but in reality it isn't and in the absence of oxygen, it creates conditions for pathogenic anaerobic bacteria to colornize. They are a cause of bad breath as well. They also produce endotoxins that end up going to our blood vessels, and contributing to arterial plaque. I'd like to know more about these endotoxins from bacteria in our gut. It's important to know so I can make distinctions, if there are any, that could keep me from discarding all gut bacteria, and "throwing away the baby with the bath water"

I'll now read your link. Maybe I could find some answers there.

 

[yerrag]

You must have not read these peat quotes:

Why Do I Find Dairy Fat To Be Particularly Fattening?

Some other ones:
"If the basic foods were chosen for minimal unsaturated fats, then coconut oil wouldn't add much of value."

"Just about everything that goes wrong involves FFA increase. If they are totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose and turning on various stress related things; By lowering the carbon dioxide production I think is the main mechanism."

And the idea that the country ate "low fat" is a myth. We never lowered fat. We've increased it and we've increased everything overall. Just because there were a few grocery products that were labeled low fat doesn't mean that people that became obese actually ate low fat. They've increased their fat intake mainly from two sources, oil and dairy fat. Cheese added to the inside of the crust of the pizza. On the pizza itself wasn't enough.

I wouldn't say the "low fat" obsession this country underwent was a myth. It was widely promoted. There was a war on cholesterol and on anything that has to do with fat, even with the AMA promoting low fat as heart-healthy. Go to the supermarket then and you'd see parents buying low-fat for themselves and for their children. That was the belief of the elite, and that belief flowed down into the masses. The war on fat came, the nation bulged, and it went and left a bitter taste, no one the better for it except large corporations. Citing cases of carbs with load of oil such as potato chips and pizza is not going to make a case for the low fat craze being a myth. Sure, there would be people loading up on them, but that isn't everybody. That small segment of the binge-carb-full-of-fat eaters would only represent a small part of the population, which would hardly create an epidemic of obesity.

As for dairy fat, there is no agreement on milk being fattening. Not everyone can agree on it. A large part is because the effects of drinking milk varies because milk varies so much. Milk can be organic or not, laced with bovince growth hormones and antibiotics or not, from type A1 or A2 cows, purely grass-fed or not, pasteurized or raw.

 

[yerrag]

But perhaps I am guilty of taking out of context what you're saying. I would agree that perhaps the problem lies not so much with sugar in what we eat, but more so with the fats that we take in. That PUFAs we take in and gets to stay in our body, and released in our bloodstream, and its effect on how we metabolize sugar and use it for energy, is at the root of the problems with our health. Perhaps even high-fructose corn syrup, even as it is man-made and even as it is very much politicized and subsidized by big agricultural, isn't so bad.

 

[yerrag]

Even our need for fiber, to slow down our digestion and assimilation of sugar into our bloodstream, would not be needed as without PUFAs and its effect, we would be able to maintain a normal and healthy level of glucose in our blood.

 

[judge]

you all realize there is a difference between fiber (that scrapes your intestines and ferments) and soluble fiber ( that goes into your blood stream) right? They are both very different

 

[yerrag]

you all realize there is a difference between fiber (that scrapes your intestines and ferments) and soluble fiber ( that goes into your blood stream) right? They are both very different

I suppose you meant that there is a difference between soluble and insoluble fiber. None of the fiber types goes into the bloodstream. Soluble fiber absorbs water, and insoluble doesn't. Between the two, my understanding from reading Ray Peat is that the soluble fibers are the fermentable ones, and they favor production of endotoxins from bacteria, and would be a cause of intestinal irritation.

 

[yerrag]

Ray Peat talks about the benefit of eating raw carrots and bamboo shoots, as unlike other foods with soluble fiber, these have some anti-bacterial effect and so would not encourage bacterial growth in the intestine.

Are there other fibrous foods that would have the same beneficial effect? How about mature coconut meat? Mature coconut meat contains coconut oil, and as such is also anti-bacterial. Would this be a good fibrous food?

 

[YuraCZ]

I had hard time pooping. Since I have really bad SIBO so my fiber sources are drastically limited. So I started using psyllium husk powder. I mix 1/2 tsp with cup of water and after 5 minutes it makes nice gel. I mix it with food or eat alone 2-3 times a day. I go 2-3 times a day pooping and stool is nicely soft. So great for someone with hemorrhoids for example and most importantly. Poops are brown in color which means that they contain some bile and old cells. Which is great because its not usual for me to have poop in normal color.. :)

 

[tara]

Can we have bacteria in our guts without the endotoxins?

It is gram negative bacteria that have lipopolysaccharides (LPS - most endotoxin is LPS) in their cell wall. When they die and break down, the endotoxin is released into the GI tract. I've never heard of anyone having gram-positive bacteria only. Theoretically possible? I don't know.

I have the impression that endotoxins come mostly from pathogenic bacteria, but what do I know?

Some of the bacteria that are widely considered pathogenic are gram positive; some of the gram-positives are pathogenic, producing and excreting pathogenic toxins while they are alive.

I wonder if we could actually live with sterile guts if we don't live in a sterile bubble, which may be the conditions the lab rats lived in.

I doubt it.

 

[EIRE24]

I had hard time pooping. Since I have really bad SIBO so my fiber sources are drastically limited. So I started using psyllium husk powder. I mix 1/2 tsp with cup of water and after 5 minutes it makes nice gel. I mix it with food or eat alone 2-3 times a day. I go 2-3 times a day pooping and stool is nicely soft. So great for someone with hemorrhoids for example and most importantly. Poops are brown in color which means that they contain some bile and old cells. Which is great because its not usual for me to have poop in normal color.. :)

How would psyllium husk work different to the fiber in vegetables? Have you tried anything to get rid of the sibo?

 

[yerrag]

It is gram negative bacteria that have lipopolysaccharides (LPS - most endotoxin is LPS) in their cell wall. When they die and break down, the endotoxin is released into the GI tract. I've never heard of anyone having gram-positive bacteria only. Theoretically possible? I don't know.

Some of the bacteria that are widely considered pathogenic are gram positive; some of the gram-positives are pathogenic, producing and excreting pathogenic toxins while they are alive.

I doubt it.

Thanks Tara. I now need to read up on the significance and distinction of bacteria being gram-negative or gram-positive. Interesting stuff.

 

[YuraCZ]

How would psyllium husk work different to the fiber in vegetables? Have you tried anything to get rid of the sibo?

Vegetable fiber is in gel form...? Most vegetables even well cooked give me constipation, because they feed bacteria even low fodmap vegetables. I find only cucumbers safe. Psyllium husk don't feed bacteria. Carrot is also good but doesn't work for constipation like gel from psyllium for me. Sibo is due to low metabolism, low stomach acid, lack of bile. It's systemic. You can't treat SIBO be just taking some pills or what.

 

[yerrag]

Here is Ray Peat's response to a question regarding the mice living a longer life with a sterile gut:

"RP: Well, the experiments with germ-free animals, they do find they are actually healthier than the normal germ-infected animals, until - if they grow up never exposed to bacteria, they seem very healthy, but then they've never developed their immune defences - and so, when they are exposed, they are extremely susceptible to infection. If we're going to live in a world with germs, we might as well get used to them."

From https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/endotoxin-kmud-november-19-2010.5151/

So, hold off on the plan to have a sterile gut!