Anyone ever cured severe dysbiosis with bifido bacteria?

[TheBeard]

So, have you fixed your gut issues?

I just started chelation, gut issues don't disappear until you're done with chelation.

 

[Perry Staltic]

I have taken this and still have some lying around.

Noticed no difference. I get extreme bloating and gas as well and tried antimicrobial, antifungal and pro and prebiotics with no results.

But perhaps I never stuck with one thing long enough.

The Megaspore product is pretty weak doses (CFU) per species. I'd have to take 15 Megaspore caps (1/4 of the bottle) to get the same CFU of b. coagulens as I get in one capsule of what I take.

 

[Peatful]

@dogtrainer

Have you explored phages?
Ie: Florassist

It won’t solve your problems long term; but if they work for you- they can give you relief and a clean slate so to speak- to start rebuilding.

 

[Perry Staltic]

@dogtrainer

Have you explored phages?
Ie: Florassist

It won’t solve your problems long term; but if they work for you- they can give you relief and a clean slate so to speak- to start rebuilding.

What do the phages do?

EDIT: n/m I found something

They are remarkable because unlike antibiotics that kill all bacteria indiscriminately, often leaving the gut in a state of disrepair, bacteriophage are viruses that only attack the harmful bacteria not the human cells. And better yet, they don’t negatively impact the microbiome and may even improve gut health.

Bacteriophages: The Next Gut Friendly Antibiotic Replacement

Bacteriophages. Are They Next Gut Friendly Antibiotic Replacement? New Bacteriophage for Gastrointestinal Health (PHAGE) shows this may be a solution to antibiotic overuse.

todayspractitioner.com

 

[Jkbp]

You stated that taking HCl and enzymes helps you with digestion. I recommend you take HCl and enzymes with every meal that contains protein. Have you done the HCL test? I know many people who did not get relief from the bloat, until they took a sufficient amount of HCl, sometimes up to 10 capsules, with their meals. Check out the Facebook groups for HCl, H. pylori, and SIBO. I have learned a ton of information from those Facebook groups.

 

[benkiller47]

Hey, i have chronic digestive issues and I'm 22. It got really really bad to the point where I feel like dying most days and can't stand up. Bloatings and malaise feeling truth the roof.
Its been going on for 6 years.

I've tried a lot lot lot of things.
At 19 years old i had 2 month totally symptoms free after taking Bifidobacterium Longum (infantis) or its name is Alflorex.

I was healed of any symptoms and just was feeling phenomenal. No one ever explained to me what happened there. But that's what keep me motivated to find solutions to my problems and that's why I keep searching hard since then. My research pointed me to water kefir which is with what I had the most results recently.

So try Alflorex and try water kefir. Alflorex almost killed me at first and then it totally healed me. So go slow.

When i was symptoms free , i go a sinusitis at some point and took antibiotics. Which cancelled the benefics of the probiotic and made me loop into symptoms again, i then tried taking probiotics again but they didn't work this time. Well maybe I should try them again but I'm kind of afraid...

If your microbiote works properly then your health should be perfect. The thing is that to restore a healthy microbiome you need to go truth very very bad Herx and they are very hard on the already weak systems so it's very tricky when it reaches some very bad lows.

 

[TheBeard]

Hey, i have chronic digestive issues and I'm 22. It got really really bad to the point where I feel like dying most days and can't stand up. Bloatings and malaise feeling truth the roof.
Its been going on for 6 years.

I've tried a lot lot lot of things.
At 19 years old i had 2 month totally symptoms free after taking Bifidobacterium Longum (infantis) or its name is Alflorex.

I was healed of any symptoms and just was feeling phenomenal. No one ever explained to me what happened there. But that's what keep me motivated to find solutions to my problems and that's why I keep searching hard since then. My research pointed me to water kefir which is with what I had the most results recently.

So try Alflorex and try water kefir. Alflorex almost killed me at first and then it totally healed me. So go slow.

When i was symptoms free , i go a sinusitis at some point and took antibiotics. Which cancelled the benefics of the probiotic and made me loop into symptoms again, i then tried taking probiotics again but they didn't work this time. Well maybe I should try them again but I'm kind of afraid...

If your microbiote works properly then your health should be perfect. The thing is that to restore a healthy microbiome you need to go truth very very bad Herx and they are very hard on the already weak systems so it's very tricky when it reaches some very bad lows.

Did you get vaccines over the past 10 years?

 

[benkiller47]

Did you get vaccines over the past 10 years?

Hey not 10 years but like 13 years ago


I'm planning on soon doing a hair mineral analysis to see if i have aluminum poisoning or other thing like that

 

[Nighteyes]

Fixing bile flow is the most important thing for dysbiosis and gut problems.

Bile is a promising gut nutrient that inhibits intestinal bacterial translocation and promotes gut motility via an interleukin-6-related pathway in an animal model of endotoxemia

People who are critically ill have high rates of endotoxemia that can significantly decrease bile flow and increase bile cytokines, the latter of whic…

www.sciencedirect.com

Short fasts + mild laxatives can help clear stuff out and reset

 

[Vins7]

Fixing bile flow is the most important thing for dysbiosis and gut problems.

Bile is a promising gut nutrient that inhibits intestinal bacterial translocation and promotes gut motility via an interleukin-6-related pathway in an animal model of endotoxemia

People who are critically ill have high rates of endotoxemia that can significantly decrease bile flow and increase bile cytokines, the latter of whic…

www.sciencedirect.com

Short fasts + mild laxatives can help clear stuff out and reset

And what do you think that are the causes of bad bile flow?

 

[gd81]

SIBO is caused by hypothyroidism. Ray has written about this a bit if you search.

Association between hypothyroidism and small intestinal bacterial overgrowth - PubMed

The history of overt hypothyroidism is associated with bacterial overgrowth development. Excess bacteria could influence clinical gastrointestinal manifestations. Bacterial overgrowth decontamination is associated with improved gastrointestinal symptoms. However, fermenting carbohydrate luminal...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Thyroid dysfunction in patients with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth] - PubMed

Thyroid function may be impaired in patients with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth which should be taken into account in the diagnostic and therapeutic management of the diseases of these organs.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Introducing more bacteria will likely just make it worse. Haidut has a post about this. It's worth reading everything he has posted about probiotics.

Brain fogginess, gas and bloating: a link between SIBO, probiotics and metabolic acidosis - PubMed

We describe a syndrome of BF, gas and bloating, possibly related to probiotic use, SIBO, and D-lactic acidosis in a cohort without short bowel. Patients with BF exhibited higher prevalence of SIBO and D-lactic acidosis. Symptoms improved with antibiotics and stopping probiotics. Clinicians...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Search results for query: probiotics

raypeatforum.com

You need an antibiotic+ address the underlying hypothyrodism. Daily carrot salad is useful too of course. The tetracyclines are good.

 

[Guacamayo]

I have a prucalopride prescription and it definitely works. There’s a big SIBO doctor who says you can cure all SIBO with a low dose prucalopride pill and no antibiotics.

I’ve been resistant to take it given it’s a 5HT4 agonist.

I don’t want to be on anything for ever but maybe this is just my option at this point

@dogtrainer and @Perry Staltic are you able to shed more light on prucalopride. I've never heard about it and have had constipation IBS/SIBO/dysbiosis for over a decade.

Is it one of those things where your body becomes accustomed to it after a while?

And what exactly is 5HT4. I've been on this forum for years but this is the first I've heard about it.

 

[Perry Staltic]

@dogtrainer and @Perry Staltic are you able to shed more light on prucalopride. I've never heard about it and have had constipation IBS/SIBO/dysbiosis for over a decade.

Nope never heard of it

 

[dogtrainer]

You will never cure dysbiosis with the introduction of bacteria.
If that were the case, they would have settled in your gut long ago and solved your issues.

The issue is heavy metals preventing that ecosystem getting back into place.
You need to chelate mercury and aluminum.

The only two chelators that work are ALA and OSR.

Until you do, your gut issues will remain.

This is an interesting angle. I have an HTMA from last year that shows only high magnesium (I was using it daily to poop).

No high aluminum or mercury. Do you think I can still have high heavy metals hanging around in the gut?

This reminds of Nathan Hatch’s chapter on gut dysbiosis - he said accumulated aluminum makes the intestinal environment more suited to high histamine, dysbiotic strains.

I know what ALA is. Where do you buy OSR? What the hell is it?

 

[rayban]

Almost 4 years of gut issues now, I have periods of improvement but never longer than a few months.

From year 1 to present, I am able to pass more gas rather it just getting stuck/feeling bloated. If I have extreme bloating i am usually able to pass gas with herbal supplements, where before I would be stuck in an extremely bloated state for 8-10 excruciating hours.

But still, extremely limited diet, I have only 1 or 2 foods that I do well on, and even then sometimes meat bloats me.

I’ve tried allllllll of the antimicrobial approaches, for four years. 6 rounds of rifaxamin. Only antibiotics I haven’t tried are neomycin. I won’t take metronidazole or ciprofloxacin.

I won’t say that antimicrobial approaches haven’t worked. It’s that they baaaarely work after long hard rounds and I am still limited to 2 foods at the end of it. Perhaps I haven’t done them long enough, but it’s been four years of trying to kill the dysbiosis and I have still ridiculous amounts of gas and bloating even on what should be a zero fermentation diet - meat and fruit juice.

I think some of the microbes causing my issues are proteobacteria.

I have four overgrowths according to a stool test:

Bacillus spp
Streptococcus aureus
Staphylococcus
Pseudomonas spp

Never gotten a SIBO test, but I assume I have it based on the burping.

I assume I have low stomach acid. Lots of pressure and fullness with meat that isn’t remedied by either HCL or high dose digestive enzymes.

I am hypothyroid and on 50mcg Tirosint and 25 mcg T3. My thyroid is barely over the ranges and my doc is really conservative about raising it.

Potential Solutions

Low protein diet -> remove substrate from protein fermenting bacteria

besides making me feel like ***t, this hasn’t worked. There aren’t enough foods I can tolerate. Very few fruits and vegetables are tolerated due to the fiber.

I have tried juice fasting (orange juice, coconut water, pineapple juice) and I still get bloated. It also makes me unable to poo due to the complete lack of bulk.

Low Carb > I did this almost my entire 20s and I think it caused my thyroid problem that earned me the overgrowths in the first place. I would do it if it worked. It doesn’t anymore. Gas and bloating from a plain steak. Gas and bloating from, you guessed it, bone broth.

Just eat what you crave and stop being orthorexic -> this isn’t a bad idea. The problem is, this has caused me massive physical pain every time I have tried to stray even a toe out of line. Ate an orange instead of pulp free OJ? Massive bloating.

Ate two raspberries? Massive bloating.
Barbecue sauce on wings? Massive bloating.

At this point, it’s severely restrict my diet and maintain a level 4-5 out of 10 quality of life some days, or eat slightly outside my safe foods and immediately drop to a 1-2 quality of life most days. The experiment of trying to expand the diet has gone horrifically bad even with literal bites of foods. A bite of rice is guaranteed to put me on my **** for the next three days.

At this point the only thing I haven’t tried with vigor is using other bacteria to kill the bacillus, strep, staph, and pseudomonas in my gut. To be honest I don’t think it will work, or we would have heard about it. I had a brief excursion into BB536 yogurt a couple years ago but improvements were minimal if any.

But I thought it’s worth it to ask one more time here.

Has anyone used bacteria to kill bacteria?

I’m looking at B. Subtilis due to its antibiotic properties. But with a Bacillus overgrowth already overtaking, is this a good idea?

What about the bifido species? I recently tried a 1/4 teaspoon of b. infantis and I was horrifically bloated for 2 days. Worth it to press forward? Will it damage me? They give it to infants so it can’t be that bad right?

What about l.reuteri and it’s lovely reuterin? Likely to help me?

Any experience with probiotics in this forum?

What did you test on your stool sample? there's tons of things to test for. Im going to test this done to see if something shows up for the tongue problem:

What are these white marks on the tongue?

Why did the T4 make her worse? What worries me right is now is the tongue, i always have some discomfort, i dont want to get a biopsy and get told there are cancer cells or something because my body would shut down from the stress most likely. But then again, what else is there to do? i've...

raypeatforum.com

 

[rayban]

You will never cure dysbiosis with the introduction of bacteria.
If that were the case, they would have settled in your gut long ago and solved your issues.

The issue is heavy metals preventing that ecosystem getting back into place.
You need to chelate mercury and aluminum.

The only two chelators that work are ALA and OSR.

Until you do, your gut issues will remain.

How did you find out you have heavy metal buildup? I did a hair test some years ago and I had no heavy metals elevated.

 

[TheBeard]

How did you find out you have heavy metal buildup? I did a hair test some years ago and I had no heavy metals elevated.

It takes an expert eye to read hair analysis reports.
Low levels of heavy metals on paper mean nothing.
There are proxys to heavy metal presence, like rock bottom zinc and lithium levels among others.

You need to submit your test results in the ACC facebook group for them to analyse it.

 

[golder]

It takes an expert eye to read hair analysis reports.
Low levels of heavy metals on paper mean nothing.
There are proxys to heavy metal presence, like rock bottom zinc and lithium levels among others.

You need to submit your test results in the ACC facebook group for them to analyse it.

Sounds quite cryptic.

 

[rayban]

It takes an expert eye to read hair analysis reports.
Low levels of heavy metals on paper mean nothing.
There are proxys to heavy metal presence, like rock bottom zinc and lithium levels among others.

You need to submit your test results in the ACC facebook group for them to analyse it.

Yeah i've read there are endless ratios to look in a mineralogram test. Where can I find this ACC thing? who are they to trust they know what they are doing?

I tought the heavy metals part of the test was as easy as looking at the bars tho, and the complicated stuff was the minerals one.

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah i've read there are endless ratios to look in a mineralogram test. Where can I find this ACC thing? who are they to trust they know what they are doing?

I tought the heavy metals part of the test was as easy as looking at the bars tho, and the complicated stuff was the minerals one.

Andy Cutler Chelation facebook group.
Join and read, you'll know they know what they are talking about.