I'm Done Looking For A Method To Lower Body Fat Without Caloric Restriction

[Jon]

Here comes a warning: please nobody light a match.

Lmao

 

[Ron J]

It seems that I've lost some water weight, so fat loss should follow. Unless something drastic happens, I'll update every 3 weeks or so.

 

[Glassy]

I’ve spent the last week and a half minimising my fat intake. I don’t consider it to be a long term thing as what I’m doing is not very sustainable and pretty monotonous. I’m still intermittent fasting for around 16-18hrs per day and my hunger has been pretty controllable. I’m not sure why I felt so hungry previously but it may be to do with the fact I would usually go high carb low fat on my workout days which are days when I’d typically be hungrier anyway.

What I’ve noticed is that I’m looking a bit leaner especially around my belly. It’s still a bit early to tell much and I have been trying to maintain a deficit for about 3 weeks now (so it’s not all the low fat). I took 2 x fasts closer to the 20hr mark this week and noticed a bigger stress response than I was used to. I’m probably not going to push them that long again because it really didn’t feel good and I started feeling quite anxious.

I’ve never really gone low fat for more than a couple of days at a time and it’s an interesting experience. On the whole my overall mood and energy has been really positive. I’m not counting my fat grams but the only significant fat I’m getting is from a little lean beef (I’ve cut back on my meat a bit) and the fat with my weekly cheese and oysters. I’m eating lots and lots of white rice (cooked in the pressure cooker), boiled egg white (I get about a dozen eggs a day from my chooks right now) and some fruit, lollies and home made Jello. Chilli sauce, salt and Maggie seasoning has been saving my taste buds. I’m also having a carrot salad to break my fast when I’m at home (probably also helping with my mood).

Edit: TLDR ~ I’m not feeling bad on low fat high starch and adequate protein = interesting (to me anyway)

 

[saraleah]

Hi Saraleah. What solutions were you looking for?

I’m just wondering what worked?

Cutting fats helped. Switched to low fat dairy from the A2 raw milk I was drinking, ... Im using red meat rarely now more as a condiment, eating more rice and well cooked potato, cod, oyster. My protein probably isn't high enough

 

[saraleah]

I’ve spent the last week and a half minimising my fat intake. I don’t consider it to be a long term thing as what I’m doing is not very sustainable and pretty monotonous. I’m still intermittent fasting for around 16-18hrs per day and my hunger has been pretty controllable. I’m not sure why I felt so hungry previously but it may be to do with the fact I would usually go high carb low fat on my workout days which are days when I’d typically be hungrier anyway.

What I’ve noticed is that I’m looking a bit leaner especially around my belly. It’s still a bit early to tell much and I have been trying to maintain a deficit for about 3 weeks now (so it’s not all the low fat). I took 2 x fasts closer to the 20hr mark this week and noticed a bigger stress response than I was used to. I’m probably not going to push them that long again because it really didn’t feel good and I started feeling quite anxious.

I’ve never really gone low fat for more than a couple of days at a time and it’s an interesting experience. On the whole my overall mood and energy has been really positive. I’m not counting my fat grams but the only significant fat I’m getting is from a little lean beef (I’ve cut back on my meat a bit) and the fat with my weekly cheese and oysters. I’m eating lots and lots of white rice (cooked in the pressure cooker), boiled egg white (I get about a dozen eggs a day from my chooks right now) and some fruit, lollies and home made Jello. Chilli sauce, salt and Maggie seasoning has been saving my taste buds. I’m also having a carrot salad to break my fast when I’m at home (probably also helping with my mood).

Edit: TLDR ~ I’m not feeling bad on low fat high starch and adequate protein = interesting (to me anyway)

Glassy I feel good on it too. I needed help finding a solution to an auto immune skin condition,dr says powerful steroid and estrogen are the only cure. I am not sure yet I think dairy is a trigger, even A2 raw milk which I got from a local farm, as I could never tolerate milk even as a child...and it was healthier 55 years ago!!

Hi Saraleah. What solutions were you looking for?

I’m just wondering what worked?

Hi Saraleah. What solutions were you looking for?

I’m just wondering what worked?

 

[saraleah]

Help from anyone with an autoimmune skin condition that has nearly ruined my life. Very low fat vegan that I did for cardiac health really helped for a while but I didn't know about Ray Peat, was eating soy, other beans. Was freezing cold from being vegan. Found this forum as very low fat vegan is hard to maintain and not necessarily healthy, its freezing cold here in New England in winter. Because of Ray Peat and this forum I was able to eat animal protein without scary chest pain, breathlessness..Im older. I did put on some fat so I cut waaay down on sat fat and got back under 130 with definition...but skin condition is flaring up and I am freaking out.

 

[saraleah]

Hi Saraleah. What solutions were you looking for?

I’m just wondering what worked?

Also I am very careful to NOT eat anything at all for 2 hours after workout.I eat some fruit and sugared coffee before, protein/carb 2 hours after an intense short workout, no BCAA Whey or any artificial foods

 

[saraleah]

For me personally very low fat (10g/day) works, I have 0 problems after months of not eating any fats ever. Though everybody is different.
I personally believe that some people require more fats than others, similarly to the ayurvedic and traditional chinese medicine views and the 20th century views of the fast and slow oxidizers. These all emphasize the different macro needs for different people.
Myself I have always had a weak nervous system, I would fit the description of an ectomorph/slow oxidizer/sympathetic dominant etc. My digestion is not strong like that of others, also I need a lot of time to recover from doing things such as heavy squats compared to others. In addition to this I have thin joints/bones (6 inch wrist at 6'7 height), an ectomorph.

I don't know what you would describe yourself as? From the observations in my personal surrounding it usually seems the endomorphs usually fare better with more fats/proteins and the ecto's with less (my mother who is also an ecto fares a lot worse on fatty/protein foods while my dad, who has a more endo/meso build, thrives on it. Similarly my mother recovers slowly from intense exercise such as weightlifting while my dad recovers very quickly).

If I follow the exercise regimen tailored for myself (low stress on the CNS, low weight, higher volume), and my diet (carbs, 90-100g protein, as low fat as possible), I find myself able to maintain very low bodyfat (like 7%, literally no fat anywhere with veins all over my abs/legs etc), while feeling okay. While in the past I would have absolutely no chance at this eating a higher fat diet or doing very intense squats/bench press etc. It would be extremely stressful to try to get lean using the standard bodybuilding recommendations and usually plateaued aswell. Also sunlight is of huge value to me, I find I can eat less and feel the same when I am outdoors exposing my body to the sun a lot.

Totally agree with all. What are you using for lean protein?

 

[Glassy]

Glassy I feel good on it too. I needed help finding a solution to an auto immune skin condition,dr says powerful steroid and estrogen are the only cure. I am not sure yet I think dairy is a trigger, even A2 raw milk which I got from a local farm, as I could never tolerate milk even as a child...and it was healthier 55 years ago!!

I’m a little surprised I’m not getting fat cravings to be honest and I still feel pretty good still. I’ve only lost about a kg over 4-5 weeks but I look like I’ve lost more than that judging by my belly fat. I’m definitely eating my carbs both in starch and sugar and not worried too much about maintaining a caloric deficit (figuring that the LFHC might bump my metabolism up a notch and is an interesting experiment). I’m relaxing the IF but find it really strange to eat in the AM, I do have some OJ with added OJ concentrate during my workout and I eat a starchy meal straight after working out.

I don’t know much about skin autoimmune conditions. I’ve been reading a lot into endotoxins recently which seems to cause inflammation through the body. Beans and legumes seem to be pretty bad for feeding the bacteria that produce them though. I’ve started doing daily carrot salads again and taking cascara for its healing properties trying to take just enough to speed up the bowels without causing cramps/liquid BMs.

A big source of my protein is lean beef and gelatine (as home made jelly/jello). I’m eating a lot of salted mashed potatoes which apparently has some decent protein (at least compared to White rice). I have bags of whey and BCAAs which I should probably throw out (I’m unlikely to consume them now). I don’t even eat cottage cheese because of the gums. I’d drink low fat milk but I’m not loving the taste and it has more fat than I’m prepared to eat at the moment running this low fat “experiment”.

Hopefully someone can provide better support for your skin problem. What are your symptoms?

 

[accelerator]

What has been most effective for me is choosing leaner cuts of meat and lower-fat versions of dairy. Increasing the percentage of calories from protein and lowering total fat intake.
Carb intake can stay high, just eat lean protein sources. Eating high protein (150 grams) and high carb has resulted in me gaining muscle without doing any exercise while keeping bodyfat low. I can get fat easily simply by eating fatty cheese and a lot of chocolate, so in my experience keeping fat intake low is the key for achieving a lean body.

Can I ask what's your body weight? Is that why you're doing 150 grams?

And how much fat did you lose in how much time doing this?

 

[Hairfedup]

If you ate a diet of, lets say, 84% carbohydrates with minimal fat, you'd be very lean as per West African and Papuan tribes.

 

[Vinero]

Can I ask what's your body weight? Is that why you're doing 150 grams?

And how much fat did you lose in how much time doing this?

I never weigh myself, 150 grams of protein is actually my maximum amount of protein I can eat in a day. Most days I get around 120 grams. I also eat a lot of starch like white rice.

 

[JustAGuy]

Totally agree with all. What are you using for lean protein?

Skim milk and chicken breast usually. Currently dropped my protein to 75g from 90-100g, feel better on this lower protein intake. Also get a better pump in the gym, and my muscles fill out more despite equal calories. (like 75g vs 100g protein I already notice quite a big difference in this, 75g vs 150-200g protein a MASSIVE difference, like my muscles are totally flattened out when I eat 200g protein, where they balloon up on only 75g protein, no clue why this is, just an observation. Have more power aswell on lower protein, the carbs just "reach" my system much better).

I try to eat a bit less wheat now and focus more on cornflakes/rice. I find I feel similar no matter where the "gram" of protein comes from. Like very low quality fruit protein 20g intake feels same as higher quality chicken breast protein intake of 20g. Therefor I assume it would yield me better results to focus on higher quality protein intake since my intake is already not that high (according to the standard protein intake of physically active people).

Found 2 posts which helped me to lower my protein intake despite everyone always screaming "protein protein protein" everywhere, especially the first one is an interesting read including the comment section if you are interested in protein intake and physical activity.:
Living in a (new) country full of lean, jacked dudes on low-protein diets. What gives? : leangains
Bodybuilding.com Forums

I think protein is overrated for muscle gain as long as you get like 30g daily of high quality protein and some more from grains you eat. Just look at human breast milk composition, how low in protein it is and how fast babies grow.

I try not to overdo it on skim milk, since excess liquid intake really drops my temps big time. So I try to stay under 500ml daily on the skim milk.

 

[Andman]

Protein is needed for more than "only" adding and maintaining muscle mass, i agree that 200g+ for most isnt really neccessary, but i wouldnt want less than 70g/day for long stretches of time

 

[Ron J]

@Joeyd
I bought some sunflower lecithin, but I only plan to take some once a week; what do you think my dose should be?

 

[saraleah]

Skim milk and chicken breast usually. Currently dropped my protein to 75g from 90-100g, feel better on this lower protein intake. Also get a better pump in the gym, and my muscles fill out more despite equal calories. (like 75g vs 100g protein I already notice quite a big difference in this, 75g vs 150-200g protein a MASSIVE difference, like my muscles are totally flattened out when I eat 200g protein, where they balloon up on only 75g protein, no clue why this is, just an observation. Have more power aswell on lower protein, the carbs just "reach" my system much better).

I try to eat a bit less wheat now and focus more on cornflakes/rice. I find I feel similar no matter where the "gram" of protein comes from. Like very low quality fruit protein 20g intake feels same as higher quality chicken breast protein intake of 20g. Therefor I assume it would yield me better results to focus on higher quality protein intake since my intake is already not that high (according to the standard protein intake of physically active people).

Found 2 posts which helped me to lower my protein intake despite everyone always screaming "protein protein protein" everywhere, especially the first one is an interesting read including the comment section if you are interested in protein intake and physical activity.:
Living in a (new) country full of lean, jacked dudes on low-protein diets. What gives? : leangains
Bodybuilding.com Forums

I think protein is overrated for muscle gain as long as you get like 30g daily of high quality protein and some more from grains you eat. Just look at human breast milk composition, how low in protein it is and how fast babies grow.

I try not to overdo it on skim milk, since excess liquid intake really drops my temps big time. So I try to stay under 500ml daily on the skim milk.

Thank You great info!!!

 

[saraleah]

I’m a little surprised I’m not getting fat cravings to be honest and I still feel pretty good still. I’ve only lost about a kg over 4-5 weeks but I look like I’ve lost more than that judging by my belly fat. I’m definitely eating my carbs both in starch and sugar and not worried too much about maintaining a caloric deficit (figuring that the LFHC might bump my metabolism up a notch and is an interesting experiment). I’m relaxing the IF but find it really strange to eat in the AM, I do have some OJ with added OJ concentrate during my workout and I eat a starchy meal straight after working out.

I don’t know much about skin autoimmune conditions. I’ve been reading a lot into endotoxins recently which seems to cause inflammation through the body. Beans and legumes seem to be pretty bad for feeding the bacteria that produce them though. I’ve started doing daily carrot salads again and taking cascara for its healing properties trying to take just enough to speed up the bowels without causing cramps/liquid BMs.

A big source of my protein is lean beef and gelatine (as home made jelly/jello). I’m eating a lot of salted mashed potatoes which apparently has some decent protein (at least compared to White rice). I have bags of whey and BCAAs which I should probably throw out (I’m unlikely to consume them now). I don’t even eat cottage cheese because of the gums. I’d drink low fat milk but I’m not loving the taste and it has more fat than I’m prepared to eat at the moment running this low fat “experiment”.

Hopefully someone can provide better support for your skin problem. What are your symptoms?

not good its a terrible disease can you pm?

 

[saraleah]

I’m a little surprised I’m not getting fat cravings to be honest and I still feel pretty good still. I’ve only lost about a kg over 4-5 weeks but I look like I’ve lost more than that judging by my belly fat. I’m definitely eating my carbs both in starch and sugar and not worried too much about maintaining a caloric deficit (figuring that the LFHC might bump my metabolism up a notch and is an interesting experiment). I’m relaxing the IF but find it really strange to eat in the AM, I do have some OJ with added OJ concentrate during my workout and I eat a starchy meal straight after working out.

I don’t know much about skin autoimmune conditions. I’ve been reading a lot into endotoxins recently which seems to cause inflammation through the body. Beans and legumes seem to be pretty bad for feeding the bacteria that produce them though. I’ve started doing daily carrot salads again and taking cascara for its healing properties trying to take just enough to speed up the bowels without causing cramps/liquid BMs.

A big source of my protein is lean beef and gelatine (as home made jelly/jello). I’m eating a lot of salted mashed potatoes which apparently has some decent protein (at least compared to White rice). I have bags of whey and BCAAs which I should probably throw out (I’m unlikely to consume them now). I don’t even eat cottage cheese because of the gums. I’d drink low fat milk but I’m not loving the taste and it has more fat than I’m prepared to eat at the moment running this low fat “experiment”.

Hopefully someone can provide better support for your skin problem. What are your symptoms?

Just google lichen sclerosus and you'll understand ,desperate for answers- want to cure not use steroids/ estrogen which are the only known medical treatment. Months of research brought me to this forum. I was in remission it took work, following Ray Peat principles. Buy, had a recent flare, I suspect dairy. So cutting that out, going back to lower protein to see what happens. Post you provided is very helpful, thanks again

 

[Glassy]

Are you doing some carrot salad daily?

It seems to be a simple, cheap and effective protocol but I stopped for some reason. I don’t love the carrot but it feels good to breakfast with it.

Also it seems mash potatoes and rice are around the same in protein content. I still reckon well cooked potatoes are better.

Figured out I don’t know how to cook sweet potatoes in the pressure cooker this week. Not sure it can be done without turning them to slop.

 

[saraleah]

Nope. For the same reason as you, but Ill give it a try, can't hurt! And it makes sense