I'm Done Looking For A Method To Lower Body Fat Without Caloric Restriction

[stevrd]

@Ron J I wouldn't even go by BF percentage, just go by how you look in the mirror. Also, waist size to height ratio is good. A 32" waist is a good standard for most average height males. I go between a 32 and a 34 inch waist during bulking or cutting and if I go outside this range too much I either look too skinny or too fat for my liking.

If you're going to reduce calories than nutrition quality becomes even more paramount. The reasons are two-fold. (1) Of course, you can lose weight on any diet, even twinkies, by just restricting calories, but the main difference between doing it with junk food vs healthy food is healthy food is going to make it easier to lose weight because it's more satiating. I can't stress the importance of occasional junk food though. This is why we have "cheat meals." (2) Eating healthier foods while in a calorie deficit is going to give you a better chance of avoiding nutrient deficiencies. You are already at a disadvantage of getting enough nutrition by eating less calories, so don't add insult to injury by making your food sources ones that are devoid of nutrition.

Have you read the perfect health diet? Its pretty Peaty. Paul Jaminet is very against PUFAs, but he promotes a diet of meat, fruits, vegetables, and starchy potatoes/tubers. I'll say I don't think there's anything wrong with adding lowfat milk in there which won't hurt weight loss and will provide more useful nutrients. This is a great diet for weight loss. It is not only satiating, but provides all the required nutrition to avoid issues.

 

[Ron J]

@Ron J I wouldn't even go by BF percentage, just go by how you look in the mirror. Also, waist size to height ratio is good. A 32" waist is a good standard for most average height males. I go between a 32 and a 34 inch waist during bulking or cutting and if I go outside this range too much I either look too skinny or too fat for my liking.

If you're going to reduce calories than nutrition quality becomes even more paramount. The reasons are two-fold. (1) Of course, you can lose weight on any diet, even twinkies, by just restricting calories, but the main difference between doing it with junk food vs healthy food is healthy food is going to make it easier to lose weight because it's more satiating. I can't stress the importance of occasional junk food though. This is why we have "cheat meals." (2) Eating healthier foods while in a calorie deficit is going to give you a better chance of avoiding nutrient deficiencies. You are already at a disadvantage of getting enough nutrition by eating less calories, so don't add insult to injury by making your food sources ones that are devoid of nutrition.

Have you read the perfect health diet? Its pretty Peaty. Paul Jaminet is very against PUFAs, but he promotes a diet of meat, fruits, vegetables, and starchy potatoes/tubers. I'll say I don't think there's anything wrong with adding lowfat milk in there which won't hurt weight loss and will provide more useful nutrients. This is a great diet for weight loss. It is not only satiating, but provides all the required nutrition to avoid issues.

I haven't read the perfect diet.
I have one of those electronic devices that measures body fat, but I'm just going by what I look like in the mirror. Although I mentioned that I wasn't going to weigh myself, the results made me wonder how much I've lost. My weight scale isn't working, so I don't know my current weight.
I don't plan to introduce starch for a while. My fat consumption is med/low(sub 50g), and it's mostly for fat solubles in one meal that's about 30g of fat.

 

[Kelj]

The thing about achieving a normal weight is, we have to trust the rationality of the organism. That is what Dr. Peat says, and I found success when I started doing that. Just like every creature on earth, we should be able to maintain a normal ( human) weight for our whole lives. If we compare ourselves to a hibernating animal, like a bear, we can see where we go wrong and put on weight. Bear naturally hibernate every winter, so every spring, when they start eating again, they put on fat. Human bodies do the same when they are forced to live off of their own tissue for a while. Any low carb eating will cause the body to metabolize it's own tissue. Low calorie and or low carb eating will cause metabolic slow down and fat storage with any consumption of calories above the needs of the current metabolism. How to stop forever this fat storage response? Never try to cause a calorie deficit through eating and/ or exercise. Ray says the body can waste excess calories. It will always do that in an environment of abundance. If a person eats anything they want, whenever they want, and in the quantity they want they will not store fat. They are not hibernating. No fat stores needed. Here's the catch...if a body is eating excess calories sometimes, and not enough at others, the body will store fat. However, if a body consistently eats as many calories as it can, and doesn't cause a calorie deficit by exercise, it will gradually lose the excess fat, because the fat stores are not optimal physiognomy. This kind of eating also ensures enough energy for "remodeling" the body, as Ray puts it. This is what many of the commenters here were beginning to experience, but became concerned. Many of the strategies talked about here are over thinking it. I had been very low carb for a couple of years. As a nutritionist and researcher, I came across a lot of health research that seemed to support this way of eating. Then, I found Ray and his own research which pointed me in the right direction, thank goodness, because I was experiencing negative health effects. I had lost weight doing low carb, but my metabolism was low and I had lost a lot of muscle. I combined Ray's recommendations about sugar with Billy Craig's and the eating disorder bloggers' advice about not restricting calories at all and resolved all my health issues and lost weight. I'm still losing weight, gradually, but consistently. The body is working on many things when energy is available. Be warned. It is healing that causes pain, degeneration is not painful. The ideal, is to be so consistently well nourished that tweaking is happening all the time and no repairs are major repairs. If you have been restricting, are in a fat burning metabolism, or have been exercising to excess your body will store fat for a few months when you begin eating enough and return to a normal glucose burning metabolosm, to ensure against future famine. Your body wants to save your life. My experience was eight months of added abdominal fat. At the same time, I was gaining muscle without doing any exercise except normal daily activities. I was feeling more well. Eventually, cellulite was spontaneously eliminated, and I began to lose fat and weight. The success of this method is reliant on the individual persisting in eating plenty of food and riding out the weight gain. The beauty of it is, you will never have to worry about weight gain again. Every starving person loses weight, but no starving person can be well.

 

[Ron J]

Welcome to RPF @Kelj
Interesting post. What's your diet like and calories? What are the ratios of your macros?

 

[Runenight201]

The thing about achieving a normal weight is, we have to trust the rationality of the organism. That is what Dr. Peat says, and I found success when I started doing that. Just like every creature on earth, we should be able to maintain a normal ( human) weight for our whole lives. If we compare ourselves to a hibernating animal, like a bear, we can see where we go wrong and put on weight. Bear naturally hibernate every winter, so every spring, when they start eating again, they put on fat. Human bodies do the same when they are forced to live off of their own tissue for a while. Any low carb eating will cause the body to metabolize it's own tissue. Low calorie and or low carb eating will cause metabolic slow down and fat storage with any consumption of calories above the needs of the current metabolism. How to stop forever this fat storage response? Never try to cause a calorie deficit through eating and/ or exercise. Ray says the body can waste excess calories. It will always do that in an environment of abundance. If a person eats anything they want, whenever they want, and in the quantity they want they will not store fat. They are not hibernating. No fat stores needed. Here's the catch...if a body is eating excess calories sometimes, and not enough at others, the body will store fat. However, if a body consistently eats as many calories as it can, and doesn't cause a calorie deficit by exercise, it will gradually lose the excess fat, because the fat stores are not optimal physiognomy. This kind of eating also ensures enough energy for "remodeling" the body, as Ray puts it. This is what many of the commenters here were beginning to experience, but became concerned. Many of the strategies talked about here are over thinking it. I had been very low carb for a couple of years. As a nutritionist and researcher, I came across a lot of health research that seemed to support this way of eating. Then, I found Ray and his own research which pointed me in the right direction, thank goodness, because I was experiencing negative health effects. I had lost weight doing low carb, but my metabolism was low and I had lost a lot of muscle. I combined Ray's recommendations about sugar with Billy Craig's and the eating disorder bloggers' advice about not restricting calories at all and resolved all my health issues and lost weight. I'm still losing weight, gradually, but consistently. The body is working on many things when energy is available. Be warned. It is healing that causes pain, degeneration is not painful. The ideal, is to be so consistently well nourished that tweaking is happening all the time and no repairs are major repairs. If you have been restricting, are in a fat burning metabolism, or have been exercising to excess your body will store fat for a few months when you begin eating enough and return to a normal glucose burning metabolosm, to ensure against future famine. Your body wants to save your life. My experience was eight months of added abdominal fat. At the same time, I was gaining muscle without doing any exercise except normal daily activities. I was feeling more well. Eventually, cellulite was spontaneously eliminated, and I began to lose fat and weight. The success of this method is reliant on the individual persisting in eating plenty of food and riding out the weight gain. The beauty of it is, you will never have to worry about weight gain again. Every starving person loses weight, but no starving person can be well.

Also if you’re correctly eating excess calories the body should have so much energy that sitting around doing nothing just seems impossible.

When I’m flying high on sugar and carbs I’m so much more active, my foot starts tapping, i get up much more frequently to do menial tasks, and I’m much more likely to go out of my way to help people, with a little pep in my step.

If one is putting on weight and low energy, than there is something going wrong. As I see it, correctly implemented, excess energy simply gets burned by the body either through increased metabolism or increased movements (even small little movements like twitching, tapping, fidgeting, etc...)

If done wrong it gets stored as fat and you go into hibernation mode, excess starch usually causes this, and so trading off starch for sugar while keeping calories high usually maintains energy while recomping the body. Usually one can feel when too much starch is being consumed, the stomach will start to feel very heavy, and this is when it should stopped being consumed, lest you want to enter temporary hibernation mode (napping), which can be useful if one has been chronically sleep deprived.

 

[Ron J]

Also if you’re correctly eating excess calories the body should have so much energy that sitting around doing nothing just seems impossible.

When I’m flying high on sugar and carbs I’m so much more active, my foot starts tapping, i get up much more frequently to do menial tasks, and I’m much more likely to go out of my way to help people, with a little pep in my step.

If one is putting on weight and low energy, than there is something going wrong. As I see it, correctly implemented, excess energy simply gets burned by the body either through increased metabolism or increased movements (even small little movements like twitching, tapping, fidgeting, etc...)

If done wrong it gets stored as fat and you go into hibernation mode, excess starch usually causes this, and so trading off starch for sugar while keeping calories high usually maintains energy while recomping the body. Usually one can feel when too much starch is being consumed, the stomach will start to feel very heavy, and this is when it should stopped being consumed, lest you want to enter temporary hibernation mode (napping), which can be useful if one has been chronically sleep deprived.

I'm wondering if the ratio of macros is crucial to be able to waste energy instead of storing fat. It has been mentioned that too much fat along with carbs may interfere with carb metabolism.

 

[Blossom]

It is healing that causes pain, degeneration is not painful.

So true. Welcome to the forum, I’m glad you’re here.

 

[Ron J]

If it wasn't for the gyno, I'd be fine with my current physique. Assuming that I gain more surface area when I get to maintenance calories(carbs), I'm about 10 pounds from 10/11% body fat.
Edit: I haven't had strong cravings for starches, and I doubt that I'd have any with an abundance of quality fruit/OJ.

 

[Waremu]

I'm wondering if the ratio of macros is crucial to be able to waste energy instead of storing fat. It has been mentioned that too much fat along with carbs may interfere with carb metabolism.

In my experience this has been the case. I think this is the biggest mistake I see newbies to Peat make. They go overboard on the ice cream and other fats and wonder why they gain more fat mass. Of course some just come from extreme dieting and their metabolism is just really slowed down as well. But I and others have found that it’s nuch easier to stay slim or slimmer by keeping fat low while eating high carb. I eat high carb and low fat, but I do have one meal that has just enough fat because of the fat soluble vitamins I take with it. I also will have a one day per week or every other week where I have a higher fat meal just beaus I feel it is good for hormones. Kind of like how people have carb up days on low carb diets. So I will go to more a more moderate fat day on those days but I personally stay on the lower side most of the time...at least when trying to stay leaner.

 

[Ron J]

In my experience this has been the case. I think this is the biggest mistake I see newbies to Peat make. They go overboard on the ice cream and other fats and wonder why they gain more fat mass. Of course some just come from extreme dieting and their metabolism isn’t just really slowed down as well. But I and others have found that it’s nuch easier to stay slim or slimmer by keeping fat low while eating high carb. I eat high carb and low fat, but I do have one meal that has just enough fat because of the fat soluble vitamins I take with it. I also will have a one day per week or every other week where I have a higher fat meal just beaus I feel it is good for hormones. Kind of like how people have carb up days on low carb diets. So I will go to more a more moderate fat day on those days but I personally stay on the lower side most of the time...at least when trying to stay leaner.

That's exactly what I do. I make it my second meal because I read that stomach acid is lowest in the morning, and I don't consume them at night because MK4 might interfere with sleep. About the once a week high fat meal(s), I may try that after I reach my goal body fat. I'll notice if any hormonal improvements when I lift.

 

[Ron J]

I think my body fat is low enough to start getting off NDT. I'd like to use/up thyroid surrogates. I'm using 1mg of MB and 3mg of androsterone. Should I increase MB as I decrease NDT? Would I be at risk of increased serotonin from MB while on dopaminergics?
I'm currently not using aspirin and I'll keep caffeine at 200mg until my body fat goal.

 

[Hans]

No need to increase MB dose. What dopaminergic substances are you using?

 

[TeaRex14]

Pretty much every clever weight loss scheme requires calorie restriction. Only Gary Taubes, who I think is the biggest quack outside of "Dr." Berg, says you can lose weight without calorie restriction. But his low carb diet also restricts calories, lol. The amount of alchemy he uses to fool his constituents about that fact is amazing.

 

[methylenewhite]

Pretty much every clever weight loss scheme requires calorie restriction. Only Gary Taubes, who I think is the biggest quack outside of "Dr." Berg, says you can lose weight without calorie restriction. But his low carb diet also restricts calories, lol. The amount of alchemy he uses to fool his constituents about that fact is amazing.

I lose weight on vegan ( Im not vegan ) high carb high protein zero added fat/oils diet effortlessly eating all day long non stop close to 5000cals. Rice, beans, fruits. Downside is it made me depressed due endotoxin load and fart like a shotgun thanks to colon fermentation of all those fibers and starches. Jus my anecdotal 2c.

 

[Ron J]

No need to increase MB dose. What dopaminergic substances are you using?

I use diamant to potentiate low dose metergoline and bromocriptine(using despite the possible heart side effects after reading that it's dose dependent).

 

[TeaRex14]

I lose weight on vegan ( Im not vegan ) high carb high protein zero added fat/oils diet effortlessly eating all day long non stop close to 5000cals. Rice, beans, fruits. Downside is it made me depressed due endotoxin load and fart like a shotgun thanks to colon fermentation of all those fibers and starches. Jus my anecdotal 2c.

Pretty high caloric intake, are you physically active? I lose weight on a lowfat diet, around 10-15% fat, but I'm typically only eating around 2,600-2,700 calories. For me that's a slight caloric deficit. Despite being lowfat, I've also found coconut oil to be beneficial in weight loss, and my metabolism as well. My experience with coconut oil is a lot like Peat's experience. I can add several hundred calories from coconut oil and actually improve my weight loss, pretty crazy. I do better at 2,700 calories then I would at 2,400 calories removing the coconut oil.

 

[methylenewhite]

Pretty high caloric intake, are you physically active? I lose weight on a lowfat diet, around 10-15% fat, but I'm typically only eating around 2,600-2,700 calories. For me that's a slight caloric deficit. Despite being lowfat, I've also found coconut oil to be beneficial in weight loss, and my metabolism as well. My experience with coconut oil is a lot like Peat's experience. I can add several hundred calories from coconut oil and actually improve my weight loss, pretty crazy. I do better at 2,700 calories then I would at 2,400 calories removing the coconut oil.

Believe or not I was very sedentary, laying down binge watching TV series. This was kinda pufa depletion thing made in very McDougall way. Apart from depression and gas problem it actually improved my health in many aspects.

 

[TeaRex14]

I think McDougall is actually relatively smart. There's a lot of things he recommends that are pro metabolic. Besides the vegan propaganda, and his low protein advice, it's basically a good diet. He's much smarter then the clueless Greger and Fuhrman.

 

[Ron J]

I don't know what my current body fat percentage is, but here's an update on my body composition: Abs are there even unflexed, veins on lower stomach, prominent biceps vein, as well as other smaller ones on the inside of biceps. Christmas tree is up(seems so), as well as thigh veins and a few chest veins. This is with flat muscles due to low calories/carbs; hopefully my physique has less body fat than what I currently have once I gain volume from higher carbs.
Edit: I'm not sure if some people are acting dumb and indirectly trying to put others down, but some people think I got sick. Obesity is rampant here; they have no idea that I look quite muscular when I take off my shirt.

 

[Ron J]

I'm not sure if it has to do with muscle gain over the years of lifting, or due to glandular reduction, but my chest looks squarer than the last time I was very low body fat. A question to those that don't have puffy nipples/gyno: when you look down on your chest, does it look completely flat to the point that you can't tell your nipples are there?