If one wouldn’t kill it, should one eat it?

[Herbie]

Easyly answered though I used to think a lot about it , the answer is yes. If you are morally ok with it but emotionally not so much that is. I would feel horrible doing a surgery like appendictomy or something like that but its not morally wrong, so I would have one if needed but leave the job to someone less uncomfortable doing it. Its just divison of labour :)

It’s interesting how he operating theatre works that they cover everything but the small area of surgery to take that human aspect out of it. Today at work an old lady and man where sitting out the front of the place waiting for the car to be serviced and the lady collapsed, couldn’t get up, laying on the concrete for an hour, nauseous, faint, had to be there and help and get stuff and call the ambulance, but I had no emotions towards it.

 

[Herbie]

Reminded me of this funny oldie:

View attachment 34845

LOL this is awesome

 

[Eberhardt]

It’s interesting how he operating theatre works that they cover everything but the small area of surgery to take that human aspect out of it. Today at work an old lady and man where sitting out the front of the place waiting for the car to be serviced and the lady collapsed, couldn’t get up, laying on the concrete for an hour, nauseous, faint, had to be there and help and get stuff and call the ambulance, but I had no emotions towards it.

I agree its interesting. Of course parts of it might have to do with hygiene as not all surgery are like that. My mum likes to watch if shes having surgery (she has lots of joint issues), so she asks them to remove the covers and let her watch. Only thing that botheres her a bit is the sound of the bone saw!! but its not easy to predict. I think lots of people can have different reactions to animals then humans- going both ways. Maybe we sense a (percieved) innocense of evil intent in animals - lots of people feel worse when seeing animals get hurt but still would (thankfully) rather kill a mouse then a man.

 

[FoodForeal]

Would it be possible to thrive on only pastured raw eggs and pastured raw milk and its byproducts (cheese, butter, ice cream made with honey, cream, kefir, whey, and yogurt)?

 

[Jennifer]

Would it be possible to thrive on only pastured raw eggs and pastured raw milk and its byproducts (cheese, butter, ice cream made with honey, cream, kefir, whey, and yogurt)?

I imagine it depends on the person, but I have thrived on the diet you described.

 

[FoodForeal]

I imagine it depends on the person, but I have thrived on the diet you described.

It seems that the diet I described would be amenable to vegetarians and also many carnivore and keto dieters. Even vegans, who normally reject food produced by animals usually on the grounds of the awful conditions of factory farmed animals that the food comes from might try eating pastured egg or pastured raw milk products because of the demonstrable health of the animals that produced them.

 

[mayku-T-meelo]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_X3dWslj8

 

[Jennifer]

It seems that the diet I described would be amenable to vegetarians and also many carnivore and keto dieters. Even vegans, who normally reject food produced by animals usually on the grounds of the awful conditions of factory farmed animals that the food comes from might try eating pastured egg or pastured raw milk products because of the demonstrable health of the animals that produced them.

Absolutely, for vegetarians, carnivores and keto dieters, but it gets complicated with vegans due to accepted practices even outside of CAFOs, such as the culling of male chicks and debeaking of hens, and the forced "enslavement" and "rape" a.k.a insemintation of the cows, and the separating of the calves from their mothers and slaughtering of the males. With that said, there are vegans who eat eggs a.k.a veegans and also ones who eat bivalves a.k.a ostrovegans or bivalvegans—they assume bivalves can’t feel pain because bivalves lack a central nervous system. There are pasture-based, small-scale farms that practice calf-at-foot where the babies aren't separated from their mothers—this is the type of farm I get my raw goat's milk and eggs from—but the use of animals as commodities makes it inherently not vegan by definition, though, I no longer believe there is such a thing as a vegan.

 

[Eberhardt]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_X3dWslj8

 

[FoodForeal]

Absolutely, for vegetarians, carnivores and keto dieters, but it gets complicated with vegans due to accepted practices even outside of CAFOs, such as the culling of male chicks and debeaking of hens, and the forced "enslavement" and "rape" a.k.a insemintation of the cows, and the separating of the calves from their mothers and slaughtering of the males. With that said, there are vegans who eat eggs a.k.a veegans and also ones who eat bivalves a.k.a ostrovegans or bivalvegans—they assume bivalves can’t feel pain because bivalves lack a central nervous system. There are pasture-based, small-scale farms that practice calf-at-foot where the babies aren't separated from their mothers—this is the type of farm I get my raw goat's milk and eggs from—but the use of animals as commodities makes it inherently not vegan by definition, though, I no longer believe there is such a thing as a vegan.

I like calf-at-foot, I will have to look for that in the future now that I know there's a name to ask for. When you say you no longer believe there is such a thing as a vegan do you mean that it's impossible for them to thrive on whatever diet a self described vegan would call "vegan"? I would agree. I dislike the idea of animals as commodities. I believe the farm that raised them from birth should take responsibility unto death for that animal. It is negligent to sell a live animal to someone who will almost certainly not treat it according to the standards you have treated it. If we have to kill animals, I believe anybody who doesn't wish for an animal ready for slaughter to be in tbe environment it is accustomed to and completely unaware that it is going to be slaughtered is completely and totally in the wrong and must rethink their position. There is no reason we can't do away with hellish slaughterhouses and give animals a good life from birth to death.

This video is a good example of the type of slaughter that I believe is the only tolerable form, all others should be outlawed as cruel and inhumane:
View: https://youtu.be/7IQP5aXEXJo?t=237

 

[Jennifer]

@FoodForeal, I mean that I don't believe there are people who live the definition of vegan. I share a similar view regarding the raising and slaughtering of animals. I completely agree that we should be giving animals a good life from birth to death.

 

[FoodForeal]

@FoodForeal, I mean that I don't believe there are people who live the definition of vegan. I share a similar view regarding the raising and slaughtering of animals. I completely agree that we should be giving animals a good life from birth to death.

That's what I was getting at with vegans, and I agree. I realize that my post made it sound like you can't sell an animal at all without it being irresponsible, so just to clarify, I meant that you shouldn't sell a live animal to have it slaughtered by someone else. The person who raised the animal should slaughter it where it was raised, therefore if someone wants to raise or breed the animals themselves then you should make sure before selling to them that they are someone who would be willing to be taught how to slaughter an animal and either sell the body, pay for butchering, or butcher the animal themselves.

I'm amazed at how astray the world has gone. I guess the convenience of store bought packaged meat is what keeps it going. If you don't know what to look for you can't see the misery in the meat, but it's certainly there and undoubtedly contributes to making the people who eat it miserable too.

 

[cardochav]

All I know is I kill a lot of milk and oj everyday and I feel no remorse.

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you for clarifying, @FoodForeal. I figured that’s what you meant so no worries. I can only really speak for myself but prior to following the vegan lifestyle, as a vegetarian, I was unaware of what takes place in conventional dairy and egg farming. I thought because I wasn’t eating meat or buying leather that I wasn’t contributing to animal deaths. It wasn’t until my spine collapsed and I had to start consuming animal protein again that I became aware of the fact that more humane farming exists. My doctor at the time, who was passionate about traditional diets, even authored books on the subject, had put me on an ancestral/WAPF inspired diet and I began researching and visiting local farms. My family didn’t have much money while I was growing up so unfortunately, even if they had known they existed, my parents could not have afforded the high cost of meat, eggs and dairy from more humane farms. We were reliant on conventional animal proteins from the supermarket and I’ve since learned that our health suffers on 100% plant-based so that would not have been an option, and I imagine my context isn’t unique. Thankfully, people are becoming more aware of the horrors of CAFOs, but the cost may still prevent people who would love to support more humane farms from doing so. When a gallon of conventional milk and a dozen conventional eggs here costs just under $3 and $2, and a gallon of milk and a dozen eggs from the farm costs me $14 and $6, as upsetting as it is, I can see humanely raised just not being feasible for everyone.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

This may sound cold and callused, but we ought to become willing to kill animals.

It’s the circle of life that no creature on earth has tried to divorce itself from until humans transcended our humanity with false spiritualisms.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

All I know is I kill a lot of milk and oj everyday and I feel no remorse.

Based

 

[FoodForeal]

Thank you for clarifying, @FoodForeal. I figured that’s what you meant so no worries. I can only really speak for myself but prior to following the vegan lifestyle, as a vegetarian, I was unaware of what takes place in conventional dairy and egg farming. I thought because I wasn’t eating meat or buying leather that I wasn’t contributing to animal deaths. It wasn’t until my spine collapsed and I had to start consuming animal protein again that I became aware of the fact that more humane farming exists. My doctor at the time, who was passionate about traditional diets, even authored books on the subject, had put me on an ancestral/WAPF inspired diet and I began researching and visiting local farms. My family didn’t have much money while I was growing up so unfortunately, even if they had known they existed, my parents could not have afforded the high cost of meat, eggs and dairy from more humane farms. We were reliant on conventional animal proteins from the supermarket and I’ve since learned that our health suffers on 100% plant-based so that would not have been an option, and I imagine my context isn’t unique. Thankfully, people are becoming more aware of the horrors of CAFOs, but the cost may still prevent people who would love to support more humane farms from doing so. When a gallon of conventional milk and a dozen conventional eggs here costs just under $3 and $2, and a gallon of milk and a dozen eggs from the farm costs me $14 and $6, as upsetting as it is, I can see humanely raised just not being feasible for everyone.

Inflation and simultaneous proportional decrease in food quality has obscured the decline in our wages over the years while degrading us with fake food. Real food is unobtainable for many, even though that is all we should tolerate. We are at a point where most people have been forced to accept a lower existence. Still, if people really wanted real food they could have it if they realized "you are what you eat" is true and you should discard everything else besides clothing and shelter before you forgo real food.

 

[Jennifer]

@FoodForeal, that's for sure. Sourcing real food is a full-time job these days.

 

[Lord Cola]

If you feel bad about killing, butchering is another horrible experience you would need to deal with if handling meat yourself. Recognizing that most animals culturally considered food sources are potential friends, eating animals isn't something I want to do unless necessary for my well being. Unfortunately I don't know of anything that could replace animal liver or gelatin so I eat those (and would get them from animals with my own hands if I had to) but I don't have any desire to eat steak and such for enjoyment.

 

[Jennifer]

@Lord Cola, when you say you don’t know of anything that could replace liver and gelatin, do you mean nutritionally or that give you the same benefits?