Fasting to heal when all else has failed?

[Ben.]

Hi @Ben

I've seen the post Masterjohn wrote yesterday. The part about inborn error of metabolism was also interesting to me.

I'm not sure the idea he proposes is equivalent to dry/water fasting. It might be a good replacement for those who are not able to fast though.

My idea about micronutrients was rather general (as I discover that more and more nutrients seem to be involved in the fasting/water restriction response the more I read about it, or at least what I understand of it). Not eating and not drinking involves a response from the body and that requires nutrients. I like to think and tell that because I have the impression that some people think that fasting is magical while ones would be in trouble if he happens to be severely difficient in a crucial nutrients while he fasts.

Loading on full spectrum vitamins and minerals might be a good idea but I've not tried it. It was more like trying a supplement and then fasting to see if it eases my fasts. I've found nothing particularly miraculous for the moment.

Thanks for the reply. Well my reason for dryfasting would be to clear a chronic infection which is the causation for the lack of micronutrients and its utilization. If what you propose is correct im in a catch 22 situation. 9 days dry fast "protocol" as suggested by Sergey Filonov is what one lyme success story had to do but that seems just insane to me. Being someone who sometimes gets ravenously hungry isnt helpful either.

 

[LLight]

@Ben.
Don't listen to me and try it (if you haven't already).
I've read the book of the woman having cured her Lyme disease. Powerful story but it doesn't prove you have to do it this way.

 

[Ben.]

@Ben.
Don't listen to me and try it (if you haven't already).
I've read the book of the woman having cured her Lyme disease. Powerful story but it doesn't prove you have to do it this way.

I woudn't think of "following/listening" anyone blindly :)
Your original response just resonated with me and i wanted to see if there might be more to elaborate on it.

Im contemplating to attempt a dry fast this weekend.

 

[LLight]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jdi.13976

This publication is also interesting to explain why some may have issues fasting.

When you are fasting, you may be releasing toxins in your blood stream and you become hungry quickly so as you to eat and then stop the need for lipolysis?

The question is how to increase our detoxification capacity if it's an issue.

I have been interested in colloidal preparation of precious metals (silver and gold) lately because I think there is a possibility we might be deficient in them. Moreover, vasopressin and oxytocin, peptides whose levels can be elevated during dry fasting, seem to be able to carry silver (and maybe gold).

I was reading on colloidal gold this morning and an article said (it was an excerpt of another article published by the company Optimox, the one which was created by the guy named Guy E. Abraham who "push" iodine supplementation and who happened to sell gold supplements too) that gold could improve detoxification in the liver, among other thing. Well, improving detoxification is a really common claim in alternative health so I'm not sure if we can believe it but this is interesting.

The excerpt:

A study conducted with 10 rheumatoid arthritis subjects who had not responded to other medical treatment, resulted in a marked reduction in joint pain, swelling and an increase in mobility in only a week. Six months of continued supplementation with 30 mg of colloidal gold resulted in tenfold lower mean scores for joint pain and swelling. Blood tests performed after a year of supplementation with Aurasol indicated no signs of toxicity.
The company’s literature explains how colloidal gold differs from the gold salts used in traditional medicine. “Gold is a precious metal which exists in nature in 2 basic forms: metallic gold and gold salts. Metallic gold is called a noble metal because it does not react with other compounds easily and is usually inert. This is true for bulk gold, such as gold nuggets. If metallic gold is divided into fine particles with sizes ranging from one to one hundred billionths of a meter, metallic gold becomes colloidal and possesses new properties due to the larger amount of gold atoms exposed at the surface of the particles. Colloidal gold possesses a negative charge at the surface of the particles and absorbs strongly to other molecules without changing their chemical and biological properties. On the other hand, gold salts contain positively charged gold that forms strong chemical bonds with other compounds normally present in the body and changes their properties. This causes toxic reactions in the body because the immune system does not recognize these gold salt complexes as self.”
Their literature goes on to say: “even though gold is present in minute amounts in the human body, mainly in the liver, this metal is not considered an essential element for good health and there is no minimum daily requirement. It is possible that metallic gold in the colloidal form may play important roles in human health. Such colloids enhance the effects of antioxidants by catalyzing electron-transfer in oxidation-reduction reactions. This antioxidant effect in protecting from free radical damages may play a role in the beneficial effects of colloidal gold. Since colloidal gold concentrates in certain cells of the body, involved in surveillance and protection against infectious microbes, and foreign compounds; in detoxification of the liver; and in destruction and elimination of dead cells from the body; it is likely that colloidal gold plays important, if at the present unknown, roles in overall well-being.”

Gold_Regeneration

 

[Ben.]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jdi.13976

This publication is also interesting to explain why some may have issues fasting.

When you are fasting, you may be releasing toxins in your blood stream and you become hungry quickly so as you to eat and then stop the need for lipolysis?

The question is how to increase our detoxification capacity if it's an issue.

I have been interested in colloidal preparation of precious metals (silver and gold) lately because I think there is a possibility we might be deficient in them. Moreover, vasopressin and oxytocin, peptides whose levels can be elevated during dry fasting, seem to be able to carry silver (and maybe gold).

I was reading on colloidal gold this morning and an article said (it was an excerpt of another article published by the company Optimox, the one which was created by the guy named Guy E. Abraham who "push" iodine supplementation and who happened to sell gold supplements too) that gold could improve detoxification in the liver, among other thing. Well, improving detoxification is a really common claim in alternative health so I'm not sure if we can believe it but this is interesting.

The excerpt:

Gold_Regeneration

interesting. i think hans just recently posted about gold and a discussion about it helping malfunctioning hunger signals or something. my past experiments with trace elements/minerals have been very eye opening. imo they are very underrated. especially their effects on mood/brain is quite fascinating.


anyhow i ended up with a 43 hour hard dry fast and it was quite a experience to say the least. cant go to much into detail at the moment. i think tho a minimum of 5 days or more would be required to have more of an effect with severe issues like i have. i wonder however if a laxative or enema before starting such a fast would accelerate the fasting procedure because im sure theres quite some fluid and other stuff still feeding the "body" trough the colon. all ive read from the russian doctor about it is to not do one of these during the fast ( which makes sense).

 

[LLight]

i wonder however if a laxative or enema before starting such a fast would accelerate the fasting procedure because im sure theres quite some fluid and other stuff still feeding the "body" trough the colon.

If I had to make a bet it would be that it would not be helpful but I also don't practice these interventions (enema and laxatives) so what do I know.
I'm afraid they would disturb more than they may help.

 

[joaquin]

interesting. i think hans just recently posted about gold and a discussion about it helping malfunctioning hunger signals or something. my past experiments with trace elements/minerals have been very eye opening. imo they are very underrated. especially their effects on mood/brain is quite fascinating.


anyhow i ended up with a 43 hour hard dry fast and it was quite a experience to say the least. cant go to much into detail at the moment. i think tho a minimum of 5 days or more would be required to have more of an effect with severe issues like i have. i wonder however if a laxative or enema before starting such a fast would accelerate the fasting procedure because im sure theres quite some fluid and other stuff still feeding the "body" trough the colon. all ive read from the russian doctor about it is to not do one of these during the fast ( which makes sense).

I did 73 hour dry fast and it was amazing. That was 3 months ago and I'm still feeling the rejuvenation. Have you heard of August Dunning? He has a channel on Youtube called The Phoenix Protocol

https://www.youtube.com/@augustdunning

 

[Ben.]

I did 73 hour dry fast and it was amazing. That was 3 months ago and I'm still feeling the rejuvenation. Have you heard of August Dunning? He has a channel on Youtube called The Phoenix Protocol

https://www.youtube.com/@augustdunning

Thanks. Yeah i've read about some differences between Filonov and the Phoenix Protocol but i havent read to much into the phoenix itself just yet.
Had quite some noticeable and positive effects aswell but im still kinda going trough some sensations that i have a somewhat odd time understanding just yet. It realy is a powerful tool it seems. Dangerous, but powerful.

I'll look into it. gracias.

 

[LLight]

some sensations that i have a somewhat odd time understanding just yet

May I ask what they are?

 

[Ben.]

May I ask what they are?

according to dryfast communitys they are not uncommon ... sensations where old injurys or scar tissue are. Drainage ... Legs turning into heatradiators. theres to much shifting and changes in my chronic symptoms happening to put in words. as joaqin said above it seems rejuvenating and youthfull. but i also feel more sensitive ...


ill do one more at the end of the month, ideally 5 days but its probably going to be a 3 or 4 day fast. Some claim they are accumulative but i like to give myself more time inbetween these stressors.

the change in my tinnitus is quite pronounced ... a knot near my second vertebrae that plagued me for years seems to have reduced significantly in size. havent had that much stressfree mobility there for years. it felt like it drained away.


... wierd stuff happening but i take it as a positive. its odd i barely did it for 2 days and the effects are strong.

 

[LLight]

sensations where old injurys or scar tissue are.

Some people report that scar tissue can disappear/smooth over (after lots of fasting for some I believe). Heat production too.

Cool to hear you had some good results, even if I understand there are some things you might want to wait to see if it's positive rather than negative.

 

[Apple]

For me it took eating ~2 quarts of cooked vegetables a day for a while as well as 250w IR lamp therapy and Buteyko to trigger my first healing reaction in my 10 year journey to better health. Since pursuing this path further I've been having one reaction after another and even purged a couple of small parasites.

What kind of vegetables did you eat ?

 

[TheSir]

What kind of vegetables did you eat ?

Various organic roots, cruciferous and onions. Most often leek, cauliflower, carrots, yams, shallots, broccoli and garlic all cut and thrown together and boiled until soft. Tastes heavenly with a bit of butter and salt.

 

[Apple]

Various organic roots, cruciferous and onions. Most often leek, cauliflower, carrots, yams, shallots, broccoli and garlic all cut and thrown together and boiled until soft. Tastes heavenly with a bit of butter and salt.

Sure tastes heavenly when you eat nothing else :)
I agree it is better to stay on a diet like that (cooked non starchy vegetables) for several days than complete fasting and losing teeth as a consequence...

 

[TheSir]

Sure tastes heavenly when you eat nothing else :)
I agree it is better to stay on a diet like that (cooked non starchy vegetables) for several days than complete fasting and losing teeth as a consequence...

Heh, believe or not, I'd pick a fatty bowl of veggies over fruits and dairy anyday and everyday. It is satisfying on a wholly novel level, hitting cravings I was previously not aware of having. Due to the extensive cooking much of the plant matter gets turned into readily available sugars. Who doesn't enjoy the combo of fats and sugars?

In case I was unclear: rather than being a fasting regimen, this is part of my regular baseline diet.

 

[Ben.]

Sure tastes heavenly when you eat nothing else :)
I agree it is better to stay on a diet like that (cooked non starchy vegetables) for several days than complete fasting and losing teeth as a consequence...

You've lost teeth from fasting?

 

[Apple]

You've lost teeth from fasting?

I have dental fillings and I had to replace some of them after my fasting experiments, or to do root canal treatment.
Dentist said my teeth were very soft

 

[joaquin]

@Apple
did you lose your teeth due to fasting? You said something about your dental fillings and root canals.. but did actually lose teeth? I've never heard of anyone losing teeth while fasting. (heard of vegans that did) Do you think perhaps there was some underlying longstanding issue that had made your teeth soft prior to fasting and perhaps you mistakenly attributed your soft teeth to fasting? And what type of fasting did you do? Water, soft dry fast, hard dry fast? And how long?
The reason for all these questions is because you've made an extraordinary claim and I'm just curious as to what other factors may have been involved?

 

[LadyRae]

Hey guys! So I thought I would jump in here as I used to be quite the avid faster. My longest water only fast was 88 hours. For over a year in my early 40s, I would fast for about 40 hours once a week. Lots and lots of 48 hour fasts... But I never did try dry fasting.

Anyway, I had to stop that lifestyle because it effectively shut down my gonadal system and I didn't have a period for over 2 years. That said, I did notice that my digestion improved and I lost belly fat during that time that I have never regained.

Also whenever I was fasting, my sleep sucked and it was extremely difficult to get any at all after 1:00 a.m. and I was freezing cold all the time!

I think that men can handle fasting better than women absolutely, however I think that men are also experiencing decreased sex hormones it just doesn't show up as obviously as it does for women.

During my year of fasting I developed two rather deep and annoying periodontal pockets. When I quit fasting I began to use methylene blue drops in the pockets and within a few months they healed up.

 

[Apple]

@Apple
did you lose your teeth due to fasting? You said something about your dental fillings and root canals.. but did actually lose teeth? I've never heard of anyone losing teeth while fasting. (heard of vegans that did) Do you think perhaps there was some underlying longstanding issue that had made your teeth soft prior to fasting and perhaps you mistakenly attributed your soft teeth to fasting? And what type of fasting did you do? Water, soft dry fast, hard dry fast? And how long?
The reason for all these questions is because you've made an extraordinary claim and I'm just curious as to what other factors may have been involved?

I didn't really lose teeth but I felt my gums were receding and dental fillings became loose. It was due to fasting 24-48 hours...so If you have fillings and do fasting - be ready for surprises