Struggling to get fat intake down

[Rinse & rePeat]

Have you tried low fat cheeses? I love low fat string cheese and eat it a lot. There is also low fat cheddar and swiss.

But now that I am thinking about this more I do wonder if what you are actually craving is salt? I find the most difficult part about the Peat diet for me is eating less starch. I don't feel satiated without starch. If you switch bread and potatoes for fruit and milk you are not only dropping starches you are dropping all the salt in the bread and potatoes. Recently I have been adding 1/8 tsp salt to every glass of milk or juice and all of a sudden I feel satisfied without starch. I think I must have a bit of an adrenal insufficiency and need a lot of salt.

I always eat cheese especially mozzarella. The cheese is not satiating to me, even with the honey and so I end up overeating it to feel satisfied. The volume in the the skimmed milk paired with the honey is much more satiating. Drinking a lot of milk in a day with regular meals is also a disaster for me, slowing down digestion too much. I LOVE those string cheese singles!

 

[Braveheart]

Have you tried low fat cheeses? I love low fat string cheese and eat it a lot. There is also low fat cheddar and swiss.

But now that I am thinking about this more I do wonder if what you are actually craving is salt? I find the most difficult part about the Peat diet for me is eating less starch. I don't feel satiated without starch. If you switch bread and potatoes for fruit and milk you are not only dropping starches you are dropping all the salt in the bread and potatoes. Recently I have been adding 1/8 tsp salt to every glass of milk or juice and all of a sudden I feel satisfied without starch. I think I must have a bit of an adrenal insufficiency and need a lot of salt.

Peat said somewhere here the only supplements needed are E and salt.

 

[76er]

@KRB8

You can get below 30% (fat from total kcals).

Little change by little change.

I used to think I couldn't get that low too but now I can regularly hit 26%-28%.

Today was 31%.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Peat said somewhere here the only supplements needed are E and salt.

@KRB8

You can get below 30% (fat from total kcals).

Little change by little change.

I used to think I couldn't get that low too but now I can regularly hit 26%-28%.

Today was 31%.

I just had a quarter pound of king crab meat in a little butter with Tabasco and a couple of fried egg yolk for my days fat, and a some from 4 glasses of skim milk. How much fat do you think that is?

 

[Rafe]

I agree with an important detail @Rinse & rePeat said. So right. If I can put skim or low-fat milk in my morning coffee instead of cream then my energy is better set up for the rest of the day. Just don’t pine for that rich, creamy coffee color & you may not miss it at all. If I don’t look at it much it goes down fine.

Then I’m not giving my cells any PUFA first thing in the morning, or much less. With Thant my temps get higher earlier in the day. Since trying very low fat for 3 mos I got off T3. My temps stay in the 99s most of the time now.

I think you could be more satiated with less fat because you’d be using the sugar you are eating. The PUFA in the higher fat may tend to block that even if it’s not very much. Add a happy, easy walk around after eating & that will also drive your cells to use the sugar. Someone else said that.

It’s counterintuitive but there’s a kind of worst of both substrates-combination with a lot of sugar & not-low fat. I’m thinking that’s especially true for women who have had sub-clinical insulin resistance & hypothyroidism.

I still have fat to lose & I don’t know anything about pregnancy. I have lost effortlessly on peating, but only when stress is rock bottom. Which it hasn’t been.

Another reason to keep fat lower, you can eat more & you probably need it:

Pregnant women are basically endurance athletes: study

Cranky pregnant moms, prepare for vindication. Researchers studying the limits of human endurance have determined that the physical intensity of pregnancy is basically like running a 40-week marath…

nypost.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I agree with an important detail @Rinse & rePeat said. So right. If I can put skim or low-fat milk in my morning coffee instead of cream then my energy is better set up for the rest of the day. Just don’t pine for that rich, creamy coffee color & you may not miss it at all. If I don’t look at it much it goes down fine.

Then I’m not giving my cells any PUFA first thing in the morning, or much less. With Thant my temps get higher earlier in the day. Since trying very low fat for 3 mos I got off T3. My temps stay in the 99s most of the time now.

I think you could be more satiated with less fat because you’d be using the sugar you are eating. The PUFA in the higher fat may tend to block that even if it’s not very much. Add a happy, easy walk around after eating & that will also drive your cells to use the sugar. Someone else said that.

It’s counterintuitive but there’s a kind of worst of both substrates-combination with a lot of sugar & not-low fat. I’m thinking that’s especially true for women who have had sub-clinical insulin resistance & hypothyroidism.

I still have fat to lose & I don’t know anything about pregnancy. I have lost effortlessly on peating, but only when stress is rock bottom. Which it hasn’t been.

Another reason to keep fat lower, you can eat more & you probably need it:

Pregnant women are basically endurance athletes: study

Cranky pregnant moms, prepare for vindication. Researchers studying the limits of human endurance have determined that the physical intensity of pregnancy is basically like running a 40-week marath…

nypost.com

That is exactly why starches don't work for me losing weight, they are too satiating and there is not enough appetite left for my 80+ grams of protein. Starches also make me crave more starches.

 

[bogbody]

1% milk, mozzarella, and low fat cottage cheese are major staples for me. i find them really satisfying and i don’t miss the fat.

 

[teds]

HI @KRB8
congratulations on preggers! I hope the weight issue doesn't become the focus for you. You are growing a bebe so be kind to yourself- your body will change and that's okay.. but i do understand not wanting to put on weight.

As the others have said- ice cream is really a no go generally. haha

you mentioned that you didn't think you could get below 40% fat.. i thought it might be helpful to post a day of eating with lower fat.. my main vice is cream in my coffee.. if i cut that then i can get v low. Reducing starch is difficult for me bc that's what makes me feel full.. I've struggled with high liquid amounts and not feeling full despite getting the required calories.. now, i don't pretend to have to all worked out BUT, here's a day of food 2300cal with 19% fat- this is my day today:

breakfast:
2xeggs, 2pieces rice/pumpkin bread, 5g butter, collagen, cream (in my coffee), apple juice, orange juice (this is over the space of about an hour)

snack: coffee w light milk and a sugar

lunch: mix fo potato, sweet potato, beetroot, 5 g ghee (baked), 2 tins of drained oysters, papaya, melon, honey (in my tea and on the melon mix)

snack: 500ml light milk w collagen

dinner: fish baked with small amount of potato with ghee (5 g), pinapple and papaya

C: 333, F: 51, P: 145

i hope this helps. :)

edit: to be clear- i don't stick at this amount fat every day.. i range between this and up to 30%.. but that would be a high day.. probably one where i've consumed chocolate....

 

[LadyRae]

HI @KRB8
congratulations on preggers! I hope the weight issue doesn't become the focus for you. You are growing a bebe so be kind to yourself- your body will change and that's okay.. but i do understand not wanting to put on weight.

As the others have said- ice cream is really a no go generally. haha

you mentioned that you didn't think you could get below 40% fat.. i thought it might be helpful to post a day of eating with lower fat.. my main vice is cream in my coffee.. if i cut that then i can get v low. Reducing starch is difficult for me bc that's what makes me feel full.. I've struggled with high liquid amounts and not feeling full despite getting the required calories.. now, i don't pretend to have to all worked out BUT, here's a day of food 2300cal with 19% fat- this is my day today:

breakfast:
2xeggs, 2pieces rice/pumpkin bread, 5g butter, collagen, cream (in my coffee), apple juice, orange juice (this is over the space of about an hour)

snack: coffee w light milk and a sugar

lunch: mix fo potato, sweet potato, beetroot, 5 g ghee (baked), 2 tins of drained oysters, papaya, melon, honey (in my tea and on the melon mix)

snack: 500ml light milk w collagen

dinner: fish baked with small amount of potato with ghee (5 g), pinapple and papaya

C: 333, F: 51, P: 145

i hope this helps. :)

edit: to be clear- i don't stick at this amount fat every day.. i range between this and up to 30%.. but that would be a high day.. probably one where i've consumed chocolate....

Wow, that sounds delicious! I eat a LOT of melon, oysters, yams, Greek yogurt, pineapple, papaya, eggs and Masa harina (I make corn pancakes). Yes, it is easy for me to eat very low fat on these foods, and so I maintain the 125 lbs (5'10") II have been since puberty. 4 kids. I'm 43 years old.

When I was running, keto, and intermittent fasting a few years ago, my pants were really tight, anxious mornings made me sweaty and irritable, I was awake at 3am, and I struggled to maintain 130lbs. Now I just walk the dog.

 

[KRB8]

I’ve been meaning to respond for days, but my response in my head was so long, I kept adding to it and couldn’t ever settle on it ?. So here goes:

a huge thanks to you all because I am thinking strongly this will solve many issues I have. For one, I have been trying out all of your advice for a full three days with great success. Immediately I noticed a reduction in fatigue. I kept wondering why I was having so many spells of sleepiness and now I think it was the high fat snacks and meals! I’m only able to get the fat down to like 33% but I think that’s because I don’t know what to eat and it’s just going to take trial and error.
Anxiety is another issue of mine @LadyRae. It becomes really bad during pregnancy for me, especially at the end. I’ve never really solved it. But I’ve noticed the usual afternoon spell I have has been absent over the last few days! Wondering if I’ve just been missing those glucose needs for all of those years. Funny thing is I always ate sugar but it would be during a spurge and always with looots of fats because I was told to always eat sugar with fat to make sure your blood sugar does not sharply rise. I mean, eating a steady diet of high fat, moderate sugar, high starch, no wonder I was gaining so much in pregnancy! I know many of you @teds have mentioned not to be hard on myself about the weight gain, and definitely I fully understand “a lb a week” (so 40lbs) can be normal for many moms. And I’ve told myself this for years, but one of my pregnancies (out of 8!!) I was walking a lot and I think I had inadvertently increased my salt intake and I gained just 10lbs less and I felt sooooo much better. Most of the time however, I’m almost at the 50lb gain mark. My body feels heavy, loaded down, I suffered from horrific leg problems (cramps and extreme heaviness) and looking back to stop the swelling I kept drinking more and more water. Now I just add salt and if swelling is starting (usually in my knuckles) it clears in 10-20 mins! Wow!

another issue of mine has been big baby. This is a troublesome issue for me because I have an Android pelvis and my labors with my bigger babies are HARD, LONG and even dangerous. The last baby was a bad shoulder distocia. Ray Peat told me in an email that PUFA can increase bulk in a baby and it’s less superior energy obviously. Sugar on the other hand will increase brain development and keep unnecessary bulk down. I find his thoughts interesting because I’ve studied gestational Diabetes for years and of course complex carbs and low sugar and only natural oils are promoted (no focus on PUFA vs saturated). In particular I followed this gal Lily Nichols, r.n., who coaches women to eat naturally and reduce sugar and she does have success in reducing the rate of GF. However, so many moms report the baby size isn’t smaller. They themselves report less weight gain and many a remission of GD or rather a “controlling” of it, but babies still rather large. I believe the starches and lack of sugar and higher fat are a major issue, even though she is right about a lot-grass fed meats, bone broths, greens, milk. Anyways, I guess I’ve blabbed enough. So far I feel light, energetic, and happy. I thank you all and will report back soon on my progress!

 

[coffeelover]

I’ve been meaning to respond for days, but my response in my head was so long, I kept adding to it and couldn’t ever settle on it ?. So here goes:

a huge thanks to you all because I am thinking strongly this will solve many issues I have. For one, I have been trying out all of your advice for a full three days with great success. Immediately I noticed a reduction in fatigue. I kept wondering why I was having so many spells of sleepiness and now I think it was the high fat snacks and meals! I’m only able to get the fat down to like 33% but I think that’s because I don’t know what to eat and it’s just going to take trial and error.
Anxiety is another issue of mine @LadyRae. It becomes really bad during pregnancy for me, especially at the end. I’ve never really solved it. But I’ve noticed the usual afternoon spell I have has been absent over the last few days! Wondering if I’ve just been missing those glucose needs for all of those years. Funny thing is I always ate sugar but it would be during a spurge and always with looots of fats because I was told to always eat sugar with fat to make sure your blood sugar does not sharply rise. I mean, eating a steady diet of high fat, moderate sugar, high starch, no wonder I was gaining so much in pregnancy! I know many of you @teds have mentioned not to be hard on myself about the weight gain, and definitely I fully understand “a lb a week” (so 40lbs) can be normal for many moms. And I’ve told myself this for years, but one of my pregnancies (out of 8!!) I was walking a lot and I think I had inadvertently increased my salt intake and I gained just 10lbs less and I felt sooooo much better. Most of the time however, I’m almost at the 50lb gain mark. My body feels heavy, loaded down, I suffered from horrific leg problems (cramps and extreme heaviness) and looking back to stop the swelling I kept drinking more and more water. Now I just add salt and if swelling is starting (usually in my knuckles) it clears in 10-20 mins! Wow!

another issue of mine has been big baby. This is a troublesome issue for me because I have an Android pelvis and my labors with my bigger babies are HARD, LONG and even dangerous. The last baby was a bad shoulder distocia. Ray Peat told me in an email that PUFA can increase bulk in a baby and it’s less superior energy obviously. Sugar on the other hand will increase brain development and keep unnecessary bulk down. I find his thoughts interesting because I’ve studied gestational Diabetes for years and of course complex carbs and low sugar and only natural oils are promoted (no focus on PUFA vs saturated). In particular I followed this gal Lily Nichols, r.n., who coaches women to eat naturally and reduce sugar and she does have success in reducing the rate of GF. However, so many moms report the baby size isn’t smaller. They themselves report less weight gain and many a remission of GD or rather a “controlling” of it, but babies still rather large. I believe the starches and lack of sugar and higher fat are a major issue, even though she is right about a lot-grass fed meats, bone broths, greens, milk. Anyways, I guess I’ve blabbed enough. So far I feel light, energetic, and happy. I thank you all and will report back soon on my progress!

Hi KRB8! Are you still around? Your background sounds SO similar to mine....I am wondering if you would be able to comment on how your 9th pregnancy went and how much weight gained, how big baby was, how you're currently doing now? :)

 

[KRB8]

@coffeelover I haven’t signed on in a while and randomly decided to today while researching vitamin d supplements for kids. Anyway, had baby #9 in March. Interestingly, she was larger than the last baby by about 6oz BUT I think her head circ was larger because although I did have a mild shoulder distocia (I believe the many years of Ritalin I’m my youth made for poor hip development plus both my mom and maternal grandmother have very narrow hips) the baby came out much faster than the last and she has been MY BEST BABY EVER out of 9 kids! Sweetest temperament and great sleeper! A big thank you to Ray Peat, maybe?! Lol. I’m also feeling much better postpartum, especially when I don’t forget my vitamin d and keep calories high! Any more questions? I’m so passionate about this stuff. I’m 38 and we are traditional Catholics so maybe another little one will come someday?! It seems Ray is right that when diet is good your hips will move in labor much easier than when diet is PUFA laden

 

[PeskyPeater]

how old are you OP? thanks

-edit- oops now I see it 38.

congrats

 

[coffeelover]

@KRB8


Congratulations!!

I can relate to so much....the Weston Price way of eating....I discovered it after my first was born 9 years ago. I think it has GREATLY benefitted my children. All those egg yolks and liver as their first foods, along with raw milk, I think have made them very strong and healthy. I am looser now with the sweets but they eat a lot of good quality fats and proteins. For me, however, I don't think it has done my figure any favors. I have about 50+ lb I would LOVE to lose before having another baby...My 4th was born last August and I would like more babies still. She was 11 lb 6 oz. (I think partly due to my high intake of DHA fish oil in the last trimester?? in addition to 2 quarts raw whole milk and lots of juice daily...??) and my weight was at an all time high when I gave birth. That part, I would love to NOT repeat. It was really hard on my body to be so heavy.
Did you successfully reduce the fats and starches for most of your pregnancy? You said your baby's head circumference was larger eating Peaty?? The reason I always try to follow WAP during pregnancy is to have a healthy head circumference/facial/jaw development/space for teeth, but the babies I've had since starting eating WAP have had smaller heads and more crowded jaws So I'm very curious about a higher sugar/lower fat and starch approach.

Sorry this is so long and rambling but I find it hard to organize my thoughts!

 

[coffeelover]

Some thoughts that I forgot to add: First pregnancy, I was younger obviously, and it was my smallest weight gain at 35 lb. with the other pregnancies I gained 50-60 lb! When I discovered Weston Price Foundation I started slathering butter on everything, drinking whole raw milk, soaking grains, etc. I think I was also slightly hyperthyroid after my first baby because I lost all that baby weight plus 20 lb more. Then getting pregnant with my second, I packed all that weight back on very quickly and have seemingly been hypothyroid ever since (never diagnosed).

Anyway, I completely relate to what you said about changing the way you think about fats and starches... it is hard. Plus, I love to bake and cook and crave foods that are emotionally comforting. It's hard to disassociate food from comfort. And fruit/dairy isn't very fun to cook or bake with

 

[KRB8]

Ok, I think I have some things to say that might be useful. You say you were drinking 2 quarts of whole milk daily—I was drinking 2 quarts of whole milk too, but since delivering I’ve been more serious about skimming and I do believe this has helped me shed some weight. Whole milk for kids is great, but there is a strong positive correlation with whole milk consumption and fat gain in adults. I know Ray has mentioned it as has Kate Deerning. Most adults just store all that fat. I, like you, STRUGGLE with lowering the fat though…I just can’t do super low fat. So, I can live with a little extra weight. In fact I think it’s healthier for a women to be, I think I read in a bioenergetic article the other day, like 28% body fat! Even more is ideal for ovulation. And you birthed an 11lb baby! That is utterly amazing. Clearly you are STRONG. But I do think if you skimmed your milk, ate leaner cheeses, more fruit (I’ve been obsessed lately with cooked apples and pears!), and tried even to walk more (easier said than done) next baby would be smaller and you’d gain less. I also think with the head circ and wider jaw etc, I’m beginning to believe it could take generations of eating this way to change the genetic expression maybe? In my husband’s family there are these narrow palates, but smart genes, lots of intellectuals. On my side we have wide pallets and average intelligence maybe hahaha. Some of my kids have the narrow palate…many of my babies have had the larger heads. One thing I noticed about this baby compared with the last though is she was better proportioned. Last baby I couldn’t keep my fasting glucose below 107-110! When I changed to Peat diet my fasting glucose was 80-90! So this baby was heavier than last but her shoulders weren’t as fluffy—hence she came out easier! Fluffy shoulders apparently common with glucose issues. I do wonder if you are hypothyroid….have you checked pulse and temps?? Getting your thyroid really going could assist with you dropping some weight before next baby. How about your daily caloric intake? You track on chronometer? Anyway, at the end of the day being heavier is healthier IMO. I recently showed a friend an ancient sculpture done if a Greek goddess—she was quite large by today’s standards but absolutely beautiful and fertile. Then contrast that with the disgusting “heroine chic” they call it runway models. They can’t birth no 11lb amazingly healthy baby! NO WAY!!!! A last thing Ray quoted me in an email once, it was something like “Prenatally, PUFA interferes with the glucose needed for brain development, while providing energy needed for body growth.” So higher PUFA = large baby and reduced brain growth!

 

[coffeelover]

Ok, I think I have some things to say that might be useful. You say you were drinking 2 quarts of whole milk daily—I was drinking 2 quarts of whole milk too, but since delivering I’ve been more serious about skimming and I do believe this has helped me shed some weight. Whole milk for kids is great, but there is a strong positive correlation with whole milk consumption and fat gain in adults. I know Ray has mentioned it as has Kate Deerning. Most adults just store all that fat. I, like you, STRUGGLE with lowering the fat though…I just can’t do super low fat. So, I can live with a little extra weight. In fact I think it’s healthier for a women to be, I think I read in a bioenergetic article the other day, like 28% body fat! Even more is ideal for ovulation. And you birthed an 11lb baby! That is utterly amazing. Clearly you are STRONG. But I do think if you skimmed your milk, ate leaner cheeses, more fruit (I’ve been obsessed lately with cooked apples and pears!), and tried even to walk more (easier said than done) next baby would be smaller and you’d gain less. I also think with the head circ and wider jaw etc, I’m beginning to believe it could take generations of eating this way to change the genetic expression maybe? In my husband’s family there are these narrow palates, but smart genes, lots of intellectuals. On my side we have wide pallets and average intelligence maybe hahaha. Some of my kids have the narrow palate…many of my babies have had the larger heads. One thing I noticed about this baby compared with the last though is she was better proportioned. Last baby I couldn’t keep my fasting glucose below 107-110! When I changed to Peat diet my fasting glucose was 80-90! So this baby was heavier than last but her shoulders weren’t as fluffy—hence she came out easier! Fluffy shoulders apparently common with glucose issues. I do wonder if you are hypothyroid….have you checked pulse and temps?? Getting your thyroid really going could assist with you dropping some weight before next baby. How about your daily caloric intake? You track on chronometer? Anyway, at the end of the day being heavier is healthier IMO. I recently showed a friend an ancient sculpture done if a Greek goddess—she was quite large by today’s standards but absolutely beautiful and fertile. Then contrast that with the disgusting “heroine chic” they call it runway models. They can’t birth no 11lb amazingly healthy baby! NO WAY!!!! A last thing Ray quoted me in an email once, it was something like “Prenatally, PUFA interferes with the glucose needed for brain development, while providing energy needed for body growth.” So higher PUFA = large baby and reduced brain growth!

You're so encouraging!!

Lately, I have been checking my basal body temp. It's averaging around 97 degrees F. I'm reading Broda Barnes Hypothyroidism book and I'm ticking all the boxes of hypothyroid symptoms. Some have gotten worse in the past year since my 4th baby. So, I have been increasing my natural thyroid glandular supplement, hoping and praying I start to improve. I agree with you, I really want to get my thyroid working better before conceiving again. I think it would be better for everyone. I still want more children but I can tell my husband is hesitant to have one right now....he has had to help A LOT when I'm pregnant and nursing because I'm always so TIRED and overwhelmed. I think with work being super busy he wouldn't be able to take on all the home stuff he would have to if I was pregnant again right now. I've just been able to start handling house cleaning and dishes and laundry and cooking again myself.

 

[KRB8]

You're so encouraging!!

Lately, I have been checking my basal body temp. It's averaging around 97 degrees F. I'm reading Broda Barnes Hypothyroidism book and I'm ticking all the boxes of hypothyroid symptoms. Some have gotten worse in the past year since my 4th baby. So, I have been increasing my natural thyroid glandular supplement, hoping and praying I start to improve. I agree with you, I really want to get my thyroid working better before conceiving again. I think it would be better for everyone. I still want more children but I can tell my husband is hesitant to have one right now....he has had to help A LOT when I'm pregnant and nursing because I'm always so TIRED and overwhelmed. I think with work being super busy he wouldn't be able to take on all the home stuff he would have to if I was pregnant again right now. I've just been able to start handling house cleaning and dishes and laundry and cooking again myself.

My temps aren’t great either….so I just started a very small dose of T3 because I’m a scared baby…I’ve always been a less is more gal so thyroid scared me but I can tell a bit of it is helping! Funny thing, I JUST bought that book myself. I’d never read it and Danny Roddy recommend I get it so I pulled the trigger. And how I feel you on needing your husband. I too have needed my hubby ALOT during the years. It’s unfortunate we don’t have the proverbial village moms had back in the day! It always takes me a very long while to jump back into the swing after a baby but somehow I get back and here we are with 9 kids! Hugs and prayers for you mama. Keep me posted on your progress if you can