Fasting to heal when all else has failed?

[yerrag]

I’m the one who posted about fasting ! I’m not fasting bc anyone told me , It was already on my mind.. what does that mean what you said w the spring and animals ? Idg it

You sound like you are undecided about it, or you were being polite to suggestions you fast since it has worked for other people.

The animals who go into fasting/hibernation go into it with healthy consitutions and survive. Those who do not survive you hardly hear from because they are dead.

 

[LLight]

There is no such thing as a free fast

 

[tommyg130]

There is no such thing as a free fast

Idg it?

 

[Makrosky]

Not a fan of fasting myself but in terms of mercury have you seen this thread?

Can we get to the bottom of mercury toxicity solutions

I Believe this is a huge problem and causing many of peoples issues. I’m just looking for some advice or anecdotes of people who have suffered greatly and post removal detoxed w results. From what Ive gathered mercury is at the root of iron mobilization issues. Causes Alzheimer’s autism and so...

raypeatforum.com

I especially found this post to be interesting:

hey Ben. Feel a bit lazy to go through all the video. Does that chelator work even if having an amalgam or is it like other chelators ala Cuttler style that you have to first remove all metallic amalgams?

Thanks

 

[Makrosky]

So ive been really neurologically messed up, as I was very mercury toxic, 16 fillings all poorly done, then a botched steroid cycle just really caused hard to explain nervous system dysfunction. Will go blind for minutes at a time, bad gut issues , severe dehydration. Sensitive to light. Hard time processing reality and my ego is my worst symptom.

I’ve done just about everything with little success. Physically I look okay im functional on the surface and look okay . My body aches oh so bad. Facial numbness. Just so much pressure in my head/face. I studied endocrinology in school and I have a good idea of what is going on, but can’t remedy myself. Despite having success fixing up clients.

My hormone levels are in the gutter. Thyroid is within range. Supplements don’t help bc my electrical circuit and communication within my own system is simply broken atm.

I wake up hungry, but in the mood for nothing and eating always makes me feel worse. I think maybe I’m not hungry but just looking to dampen the stress response. Histamine issues through the roof when I eat. I suppose to the histamine is there in a protective manner bc of mercury. I tend to eat a good amount of high quality red meat eggs honey coconut oil and fruits.

I’ve realized I think my body wants to detox and not build at the time. So Meat and eggs and idk about milk make me feel worse. Too stimulated. I crave fruit the most. Calming things. Nourishing fat soluble rich meals like meat eggs potatoes and rice make me feel strong but so agitated and sweaty.

I guess what I came to say and ask is how would a fruit only diet play out ? Proteinless. Obviously not long term. Im going to try it with mineral supplementation. And then ik its not loved here but I’m going to do a 3 day fast and try to reset my system. My gut and brain just aren’t working so if this fails then so what. My appetite and Brian/ gut signaling is destroyed and I’m hoping a fast will just give my Stomach rest and reset my being and let it cleanse.

16 metallic amalgams? If I understood you well, I think you'll have to take those out first. That is an insane amount of mercury and other metals going in your body every minute.

Plus galvanic currents that can explain your neurological symptoms.

Regarding fasting, it has a very bad reputation on this forum and it is unfair. First of all (as always here) people only post studies demonizing fasting so it reinforces the preconcibed idea. Confirmation bias.

Second, there have been great results for millions of people over 3000 years by fasting correctly so I really doubt it is bad.

Long fasts are dangerous if done uncorrectly and for certain bodies (malnourished, weak, etc.). But a dry fast of 3 days can't be bad. We do this when we are sick or if we go to the hospital for some surgery. Can't be the devil as people here try to claim. Or water fast. Or juice fast. I think the key is not going extreme like 28 days or similar.

Also, since fasting is a natural remedy, I would try to follow simple natural rules. Do it on summer and when not having to work/major stressors.

 

[tommyg130]

16 metallic amalgams? If I understood you well, I think you'll have to take those out first. That is an insane amount of mercury and other metals going in your body every minute.

Plus galvanic currents that can explain your neurological symptoms.

Regarding fasting, it has a very bad reputation on this forum and it is unfair. First of all (as always here) people only post studies demonizing fasting so it reinforces the preconcibed idea. Confirmation bias.

Second, there have been great results for millions of people over 3000 years by fasting correctly so I really doubt it is bad.

Long fasts are dangerous if done uncorrectly and for certain bodies (malnourished, weak, etc.). But a dry fast of 3 days can't be bad. We do this when we are sick or if we go to the hospital for some surgery. Can't be the devil as people here try to claim. Or water fast. Or juice fast. I think the key is not going extreme like 28 days or similar.

Also, since fasting is a natural remedy, I would try to follow simple natural rules. Do it on summer and when not having to work/major stressors.

Thank you.. and yes they’ve been removed already . I agree fasting has its place

 

[TheSir]

Second, there have been great results for millions of people over 3000 years by fasting correctly so I really doubt it is bad.

I recall reading from an ex fasting spa employee that books about fasting written less than a mere hundred years ago no longer apply because people have become so depleted and toxic in the last decades. Think of all the PUFA, hundreds of chemicals and dozens of heavy metals that begin to pour out of the tissues while the body is being depleted of the energy and nutrition required to deal with this. Apparently it is not uncommon for people to ruin their health with fasting and even those who don't get mostly disappointing results. It's better to build the body up than to tear it down.

 

[tommyg130]

I recall reading from an ex fasting spa employee that books about fasting written less than a mere hundred years ago no longer apply because people have become so depleted and toxic in the last decades. Think of all the PUFA, hundreds of chemicals and dozens of heavy metals that begin to pour out of the tissues while the body is being depleted of the energy and nutrition required to deal with this. Apparently it is not uncommon for people to ruin their health with fasting and even those who don't get mostly disappointing results. It's better to build the body up than to tear it down.

Short term. Neither of us agree w long term fasting. A single 2-3 day fast isn’t going to cause lasting damage. And it can cleanse you out and reset some issues to then open you to accept the building up, you couldn’t receive prior .. is my take

 

[TheSir]

Short term. Neither of us agree w long term fasting. A single 2-3 day fast isn’t going to cause lasting damage. And it can cleanse you out and reset some issues to then open you to accept the building up, you couldn’t receive prior .. is my take

A 2-3 day fast done once or extremely infrequently could be fine.

 

[LLight]

Idg it?

I believe fasting requires micronutrients and that fasting as a last move when one's health is failing is not necessarily optimal. It's likely that for a fast to be efficient, the required micronutrients should be available to the body, so that detoxification pathway be properly working, for example.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily your case, I'm stating some "fasting philosophy"

And it was a pun based on the "there is no such thing as a free lunch" saying.

 

[Ben.]

hey Ben. Feel a bit lazy to go through all the video. Does that chelator work even if having an amalgam or is it like other chelators ala Cuttler style that you have to first remove all metallic amalgams?

Thanks

I didn't went trough all of it as of yet (but i surely will) but the basic principle is that it binds and never lets go as its binding affinity is quote "infinity". It is thus unlike other "chelators" not redistributing the metal within the body, it will merely float around bounded and thus being nontoxic.

It peaks within the tissues and the cells within 2 hours of ingestion. In the toxicity study in rats they used 2000mg per kg body weight and the rats didnt die nor got sick thus they coudn't determine a threshhold for toxicity.
It is hard for the body to get rid of it however it seems to be nontoxic while it is remaining in the body.


....

Now i have no experience with it nor do i know much research beyond what was stated in the video. Just want to make that clear that thoose are not "my words".
Im also not sure what it does exactly with "good" metals.

 

[Makrosky]

I didn't went trough all of it as of yet (but i surely will) but the basic principle is that it binds and never lets go as its binding affinity is quote "infinity". It is thus unlike other "chelators" not redistributing the metal within the body, it will merely float around bounded and thus being nontoxic.

It peaks within the tissues and the cells within 2 hours of ingestion. In the toxicity study in rats they used 2000mg per kg body weight and the rats didnt die nor got sick thus they coudn't determine a threshhold for toxicity.
It is hard for the body to get rid of it however it seems to be nontoxic while it is remaining in the body.


....

Now i have no experience with it nor do i know much research beyond what was stated in the video. Just want to make that clear that thoose are not "my words".
Im also not sure what it does exactly with "good" metals.

I see. Thanks a lot Ben.

 

[Makrosky]

I recall reading from an ex fasting spa employee that books about fasting written less than a mere hundred years ago no longer apply because people have become so depleted and toxic in the last decades. Think of all the PUFA, hundreds of chemicals and dozens of heavy metals that begin to pour out of the tissues while the body is being depleted of the energy and nutrition required to deal with this. Apparently it is not uncommon for people to ruin their health with fasting and even those who don't get mostly disappointing results. It's better to build the body up than to tear it down.

Good point. I am not convinced though people from previos ages had less toxicity. They didn't know about the toxicity of stuff so they would use arsenicum, lead, mercury... And many other chemicals that are now forbidden. Everything used carelessly. Plus that thing about us having less nutrients than them.... let me doubt it. I don't think they were as well nourished as us. People away from coastal zones was generally lacking lots of iodine. People on northern latitudrd probably VitD. And so on.

Just think about beef liver. How many servings of it per year you think people could have? Probably not too much, it was reserved for extremelly ill or weak people.

So difficult to know really what their health was compared to ours.

 

[Makrosky]

btw @TheSir if you search this forum or reddit (I know, I know...) you will see lots of testimonies of people healing things with fasting. Is it fake? Isn't it indicating there is some benefit to it? Thinking out loud.

Emphasis on "healing" btw. I yet have to hear anyone on this forum healing anything. Problems stay away as long as you adhere to some RP regime, and like the Cinderella, as soon as you deviate, the solution banishes and you are back to what you were before. Is that healing? My idea of healing is... gone forever no matter what you do. Like when you have an infection you take abx and it goes away forever (or until you catch another infection).

 

[TheSir]

@Makrosky Depending on the food, it is estimated that modern produce contains 1/10 to 1/1000 of the nutrition their counterparts from 100-200 years ago did. The extent of soil depletion is that severe. In addition, all produce is engineered to absorb as much water and grow as big as possible in order to maximize yield, which further drags down nutrient density.

Life expectancy of Victorian era Brits, for example, was equal to that of today, the incidence of neurodegenerative diseases 10% of our time and their intake of nutrients up to ten times higher. Almost everyone today is deficient in multiple minerals at the same time regardless of how well they think they are eating.

Fasting evidently has provided immense therapeutic benefits to some people, and in an ideal world it could produce such benefit to everyone. The main point I was alluding to is that fasting today is risky and that no longer can it be virtually guaranteed that fasting will not harm one further.

Your definition of healing is sound. Interestingly, since you brought up infections, it seems that many of our infections never heal even though the symptoms of the infection may disappear indefinitely. Instead, our bodies tend to stalemate the infection, attempting to contain it to a degree where it is no longer acute. A regimen that fundamentally increases your level of health will cause these dormant infections to become acute again as the body finally has what it takes to deal with them for good. This means that symptoms from an eczema or a pneuonumia from decades ago may suddenly resurface along the path to better health.

Thus, we can surmise that if whatever you're doing is not resulting in any kind of a healing reaction, chances are that you aren't achieving actual changes to your health. As you say, this seems to be the case for this forum for the most part. Frankly, I doubt they are common in modern fasting community either. For me it took eating ~2 quarts of cooked vegetables a day for a while as well as 250w IR lamp therapy and Buteyko to trigger my first healing reaction in my 10 year journey to better health. Since pursuing this path further I've been having one reaction after another and even purged a couple of small parasites.

 

[Makrosky]

@Makrosky Depending on the food, it is estimated that modern produce contains 1/10 to 1/1000 of the nutrition their counterparts from 100-200 years ago did. The extent of soil depletion is that severe. In addition, all produce is engineered to absorb as much water and grow as big as possible in order to maximize yield, which further drags down nutrient density.

Life expectancy of Victorian era Brits, for example, was equal to that of today, the incidence of neurodegenerative diseases 10% of our time and their intake of nutrients up to ten times higher. Almost everyone today is deficient in multiple minerals at the same time regardless of how well they think they are eating.

Fasting evidently has provided immense therapeutic benefits to some people, and in an ideal world it could produce such benefit to everyone. The main point I was alluding to is that fasting today is risky and that no longer can it be virtually guaranteed that fasting will not harm one further.

Your definition of healing is sound. Interestingly, since you brought up infections, it seems that many of our infections never heal even though the symptoms of the infection may disappear indefinitely. Instead, our bodies tend to stalemate the infection, attempting to contain it to a degree where it is no longer acute. A regimen that fundamentally increases your level of health will cause these dormant infections to become acute again as the body finally has what it takes to deal with them for good. This means that symptoms from an eczema or a pneuonumia from decades ago may suddenly resurface along the path to better health.

Thus, we can surmise that if whatever you're doing is not resulting in any kind of a healing reaction, chances are that you aren't achieving actual changes to your health. As you say, this seems to be the case for this forum for the most part. Frankly, I doubt they are common in modern fasting community either. For me it took eating ~2 quarts of cooked vegetables a day for a while as well as 250w IR lamp therapy and Buteyko to trigger my first healing reaction. Since pursuing this path further I've been having one reaction after another and even purged a couple of small parasites.

Sir, thanks a lot for your thoughtful comment. For the first part, wasn't aware of those ratios. Spot on.

For the second... it reminds me totally to homeopathy. They say once you start treating with it, the infections in reverse order start to reappear to finally cure.

Have you tried it?

 

[TheSir]

Sir, thanks a lot for your thoughtful comment. For the first part, wasn't aware of those ratios. Spot on.

For the second... it reminds me totally to homeopathy. They say once you start treating with it, the infections in reverse order start to reappear to finally cure.

Have you tried it?

I have no clue how legitimate homeopathy is, but based on what I've read and experienced that premise seems to be accurate. The more recent some issue is, the more readily the body will deal with it, whereas older issues the body has learnt to live with and work around. It's like cleaning up a pile of trash, you have to begin from the top layer. Beyond this the body has some predetermined hierarchy/order of elimination for heavy metals and toxins, for example aluminium or mercury will almost always be elimimated before lead or cadmium. On a hair test you can see which level of elimination you are currently dealing with by checking which metals are beung emilinated. That's a bit beyond my current level of knowledge however. Lawrence Wilson has written more about it.

 

[Validus]

Have you ever looked into or considered MMS/CDS (chlorine dioxide) with DMSO?

 

[Ben.]

I believe fasting requires micronutrients and that fasting as a last move when one's health is failing is not necessarily optimal. It's likely that for a fast to be efficient, the required micronutrients should be available to the body, so that detoxification pathway be properly working, for example.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily your case, I'm stating some "fasting philosophy"

And it was a pun based on the "there is no such thing as a free lunch" saying.

Dear LLight,

may i ask which micronutrients you are talking about and how you would approach a fast wether it is water or dry fasting with these nutrients in mind?
Load up on vitamins, minerals and traceelements 1-2 weeks before the fast? Or use some during the fast (woudn't that interfere with the mechanism of fasting?)

I read something about Chris Masterjohn recommending to a client to add resveratrol to his/her fasting to further increase its effect but im wondering if that "plan" could allow for shortening the length of a fast instead of intensifying one of its mechanisms.

An important signal of the fasting state is adenosine monophosphate-activated protein kinase (AMPK), which is primarily activated by energy depletion. Fasting itself will activate AMPK. However, this can be enhanced by exercising in the fasting state. Fasting involves a shift to fatty acid metabolism, and the exercise that burns the most fatty acids is steady-state “zone 2” cardio.


Resveratrol further enhances AMPK signaling.4,5 The doses used in mice, after adjustment for bodyweight and surface area, are the equivalent of an adult human taking 150-1500 milligrams per day. 2000 milligrams of resveratrol per day has been safely used for one to four weeks.6 However, 2000 milligrams twice per day has caused mild diarrhea in a majority of people.7 At high doses, it has a half-life of 2.5 hours, which would lead to it being mostly gone in 12.5 hours. Food delays the absorption of resveratrol but has no impact on the total amount absorbed.8 Therefore, the dose used here is 1000 milligrams of resveratrol twice a day during the fasting state, and ceasing its supplementation during the refeeding state.

Part of the fasting process involves the activation of enzymes such as sirtuins that irreversibly hydrolyze NAD+, a form of niacin, also known as vitamin B3. NAD+ is also broken down during the repair of DNA during cellular injury. NAD+ is universally used in the fed and fasted states for energy metabolism, and does not need to be taken specifically during the fasting state. Its retention in cells is likely to be better in the fed state, due to the role of ATP in trapping it and most other B vitamins inside cells. Therefore, this protocol uses nicotinamide riboside supplementation during the refeeding phase. Dosing is poorly characterized, and so starts at 150 mg per day. It may be slowly increased to a maximum of 2000 mg per day if this appears to improve symptoms. These doses will also deplete methyl groups and therefore antagonize the SAMe, described below, so dosing should be conservative.

 

[LLight]

Hi @Ben

I've seen the post Masterjohn wrote yesterday. The part about inborn error of metabolism was also interesting to me.

I'm not sure the idea he proposes is equivalent to dry/water fasting. It might be a good replacement for those who are not able to fast though.

My idea about micronutrients was rather general (as I discover that more and more nutrients seem to be involved in the fasting/water restriction response the more I read about it, or at least what I understand of it). Not eating and not drinking involves a response from the body and that requires nutrients. I like to think and tell that because I have the impression that some people think that fasting is magical while ones would be in trouble if he happens to be severely difficient in a crucial nutrients while he fasts.

Loading on full spectrum vitamins and minerals might be a good idea but I've not tried it. It was more like trying a supplement and then fasting to see if it eases my fasts. I've found nothing particularly miraculous for the moment.