Newbie - UK - 100 + Lbs To Lose - Probably NAFLD Too

Milena

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Hi all

MIlena from UK. Looking to lose 100+ lb post menapausal and lose the swollen odema which shows in my hands and feet along with paper-thin and vertically splitting nails, shiny cuticles and arthritis in my fingertip joints. I also have been diagnosed with sarcoidosis which shows overtly as lumps in my lymph system, high inflammatory markers and some drop in kidney function. I was deficient in Vit D but that is now sorted and back at reasonably perky levels - I take ~40-70K UI per week.
I am not a serial dieter but have tried two or three in my lifetime that were stickable - the Zone (seems to meet the nice macro ratios and be Peat-friendly in the way protein was balance with carbs), Herbalife and raw (mainly fruit). The raw just helped stabilise inexorable weight gain not lose it and did little for my teeth but was GREAT for my skin and candida (candida and athletes' foot is no longer an issue).
All other diets recently last about a week before I have cravings for crap food which I rarely eat (pizza is common)

I've started doing a little PEAT eating but gelatin is expensive here and not a regular option apart from jelly cubes with that naughty high something fructose. I have been making bone broth and have found a butcher who sells all sorts of 'bits'. Boiler chicken feet, pigs trotters, oxtail, lamb neck, chicken wings, cow heel and offal. I only have a small slow cooker so make up small batches of broth so of which gels and some not. I don't know if I am getting enough gelatin this way. I can't get or afford grass-fed so would like to still to a bit more lamb even though it costs.

I have had thyroid issues, I guess, for a lot of my life. I don't generate heat when I don't move, used to have to take baths to warm up in the morning (not now) and have, in the past been prescribed thyroxine (T4) Then I was 'sub-clinical' but had slow reflex test. T4 levels atm ar normal but TSH is about 5. My doctor won't do T3 or rT3 and says that the thyroid are normal - I disagree. I have been on Spironolactone for the odema (75mg = quite high) I presume this was to kill the aldosterone production that makes me excrete a lot of salt through my skin when not sweating. I have junked this but much keep the pitting odema down else I will have to restart - it is moderate atm reaching to mid calf.

Not doing a lot of exercise but don't run a car so walk a reasonable amount to work and shopping etc.

The peat diet does ring true as when I was a child all the family were slim - looking at photographs now you would think my parents were drug addicts they were so slim. We ate cheap cuts of meat including heart, boiled, fish once a week and roast lamb or pork on Sundays - chicken was rare and a treat. Potatoes accompanied everything with small amounts of other boiled veg. We ate butter, cake, eggs and a lot of milk and milk with jelly - the milk doesn't quite agree with me and I got a lot of eczema as a child.

Reading the forums a bit (there is a lot here) I guess I need to pay attention to dealing with PUFAs. I have always been a fan of butter but everything seems to include PUFAs as a additive or main ingredient. I see from a quick google they are actively trying to screw the profile of ALL eat animals in UK by increasing their O3 fat content in the name of my health - grrr, I didn't know. Is goat any better?

Any suggestions for threads I might read would be much appreciated. I am not in the restrict calories camp but will if necessary. I see the building of my mitochondria and metabolism highest on my list. And BTW do I need a supplement for Vit e or can I scoff two or three walnut halves instead? I do eat brazil nuts (1 or 2) for selenium on occasion.

Many thanks
 

tara

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:welcome Milena
Seems like you are on to a good butcher, and your thoughts on lowering PUFA and possible low thyroid function make sense to me (as a non-expert).

Have you have a go at entering a typical day's diet into cronometer or similar to see if there are any obvious gaps in micronutrients?
If you want you can post the whole listing and/or the summary of nutrients here for more opinions.
There is not a single diet that Peat advises for everyone, or that everyone here agrees about for everyone - there are some really useful principles, and then you get to figure out how things work for you.

Once you've checked that you are covering likely nutritional needs, you might consider cautious thyroid supplementation. Emphasis on cautious. A number of people here have found ways to supplement thyroid hormones without the help of a dr. Some do very well with it, and some have trouble. With a TSH of 5, it wouldn't surprise me if you might find it helpful. T3 has a short half-life, but is only produced at a rate of 3-4mcg/hr in healthy body, so tiny amounts can be supplemented several times a day if needed. T4 hangs around longer, so you have to start small and increment slowly (eg every 2-4wks).

More questions, if you feel like it -
Are you managing to get regular sunshine on your skin?
Is your breathing relaxed, diaphragmatic, nasal, including at night?

the Zone (seems to meet the nice macro ratios and be Peat-friendly in the way protein was balance with carbs)
I think 'the Zone' tends to have quite a high protein: carb ratio?

Good luck:)
 
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Milena

Milena

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Thanks for the reply, Tar (and the bump, Bluewren)
From what I remember, the Zone was about 40%C. 30%P and 30%F by calorie, so no, not high protein and close to Peat's ratio. When I was at school in the 70's,1/3 of each of the macros and the eating of liver was recommended in cookery classes so perhaps we are going full circle :) Zoning, I ate the equivalent (and sometimes only) about 2 chicken breasts spread across the day. The weight dropped with zero exercise at about a lb a week. The headaches at the start were horrendous. I think at the time I thought it was due to arachidonic acid release/production - there seemed no way to mitigate them for 2-3 weeks. After reading in the region of 150 pages of posts here, I think vit e may have helped.

I don't really have a typical day of food. I live on my own and eat random stuff. Less than 25% is actual 'junk' food like Lidl's thin crust pizzas (they're not overtly fatty)


SWEAR and curse *&*&*&&*! damn 'smart gesture' on my touchpad has wiped out my whole response which took 45mins. It'll never be recreated. :(
Work now but short answers.
Will retry chrono app for NEW eating - basic Peat PUFA depletion, OJ, Skimmed milk, bone broth, eggs, shellfish, liver.
Chronic mouth breather - otherwise no idea - I have read about CO2
No possibility of thyroid supplements as skint and in UK with NHS GPs.

Sorry proper response got lost and THANKS for help. I have read about 150 pages of post on this forum so far and am picking up lots of snippets. Will try to get vit e this lunchtime.
 

tara

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SWEAR and curse *&*&*&&*! damn 'smart gesture'
Bad luck:(
Feel free to ignore the following if you already addressed it in the lost post.

Chronic mouth breather - otherwise no idea - I have read about CO2
There might be some relatively easy gains to make with this, as well as potentially more gains with more time and effort. If you are able to, you can think about it as often as possible through the day and close it, and at night use either a chin strap or a little tape. For me, I also managed to reactivate my diaphragm and switch from chronic chest-breathing to habitual diaphragmatic breathing with just 3-4 sessions with a belt round my chest. Peat has suggested paper bag-breathing a few times a day. I think there are records of some people significantly improving conditions resembling CFS with Buteyko method, so

From what I remember, the Zone was about 40%C. 30%P and 30%F by calorie, so no, not high protein and close to Peat's ratio.
I don't think Peat has proposed a fixed ratio for everyone, though he has mentioned something like that as potentially reasonable at least for some people. I think there's a wide range of what people do here - with people mostly aiming for ~80- 100 odd g protein, varying from low to moderate amounts of fat, and the rest - sometimes several hundred grams - of carbs. Probably many of us are in P: C ranges like 1 :1.5 - 1: 6ish. For most people, 30% of normal calories would be quite a lot of a lot of protein.

I don't really have a typical day of food. I live on my own and eat random stuff. Less than 25% is actual 'junk' food like Lidl's thin crust pizzas (they're not overtly fatty)
If you can be bothered, you could keep a record for a week or so and see how things average out nutrient-wise?
 

Sucrates

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With that amount of weight and possible NAFLD and thyroid issues it might be worth looking into endotoxin. The effects of increased endotoxin in the liver and bloodstream can cause all those things. It's possible that hypothyroidism could cause SIBO resulting in increased endotoxin. There are many foods that can positively or negatively affect this, a lot of the things Ray talks about influence the gut barrier integrity positively, citrus polyphenols in OJ and marmalade for example, coffee too. I've put some of the data in article and podcast forms showing cause and benefit (endotoxin antagonists articles). http://www.resonantfm.com/content-guide/
 

tara

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Milena

Milena

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With that amount of weight and possible NAFLD and thyroid issues it might be worth looking into endotoxin. The effects of increased endotoxin in the liver and bloodstream can cause all those things. It's possible that hypothyroidism could cause SIBO resulting in increased endotoxin. There are many foods that can positively or negatively affect this, a lot of the things Ray talks about influence the gut barrier integrity positively, citrus polyphenols in OJ and marmalade for example, coffee too. I've put some of the data in article and podcast forms showing cause and benefit (endotoxin antagonists articles). http://www.resonantfm.com/content-guide/

It's been about 5weeks now that I have been drinking OJ (mostly blended oranges with some pith) and two cups of double-strength instant coffee a day with either cream or 1/2 milk both with sugar, I also added about a week of carrot, vinegar amd CO salad in the afternoon. The oranges alone were great at reducing (not removing) the odema in my legs but about two weeks ago the odema flared again and I got salty skin with no sweating which tends to indicate my aldosterone has gone way high.
I think I have had spleen problems for a long, long time by the tenderness in my left side. It has become very swollen and tender for the last couple of weeks too so perhaps that is the best place to attack (estrogen dominance) Has peat said anything about PUFA release without vit e affecting the spleen or making estrogen dominance worse. I have searche bit not found, As I have reduced fact and increase sugar I was wondering if I am realising PUFA generating damage.
 
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Milena

Milena

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Bought some today. Aspirin 75mg nicotinamide 100mg vit e alpha - top 400ui 298mg as all the others I. e. Mixed were in soy oil and I need to do more research.
Now to work out when to take them ;)
 
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Milena

Milena

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Replaced my lost F thermometer but could only get a Centigrade one. Disappointed to see my temp on waking was 35.5C 95.9F down from 35.8 at 4am when I woke (and drank some OJ)

I have started on 400UI mixed E, 100mg B3 (Nicotinamide) 75mg aspirin and 15mg zinc in the am with OJ Milk eggs and sugar.
This week's broth is lamb bones and cow heels.
 
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Milena

Milena

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UPDATE
I eased off on the meat content in the broth (because it was wasted as I only drank the gelatine) and as there is some fat content in the broth (probably PUFA as it won't set) I've switched back and forth from powdered marine hydrolysed collagen and broth made from chicken feet and cow heels to get a more consistent intake. I feel as though I'm making progress. Got a couple of wild large prawns and three wild scallops on Saturday and they didn't last me as long as I'd planned. They were yum!
I've finally made peace with regular skimmed instead of protein enhanced milk but skimmed is still horrible in coffee. Weird how it no longer tastes as if it was water :)
No coffee since a couple of cups on Sunday made me nauseous and I had an adrenaline rush all day and into the evening which made me quite aggressive; sorry to my bridge partner.
Reduced my morning milk & OJ smoothie to one raw egg with 1 tsp collagen powder and a splash of sugar or honey. Wild popcorn shrimp (80-100g) or some white rice mix (contains a little PUFA) with a few bits of seafood and chicken (100g tot.) once a day, sometimes twice. Other than that I've slurped OJ & milk (or Milk, then OJ) and honey and sugar and a little 81% dark chocolate. The odd biscuit has snuck in when there was nothing else available one evening. Sometimes some other juices from M&S range. Oh, and salt, lots of Maldon salt. And liver 200g a week - I prefer lamb.
Supplements
1 or 2 75mg aspirin per day.
1 15mg zinc with copper.
1 or 2 400UI mixed tocopherols in soy.
300 - 600mg B3.
1 mega dose B complex.
Several squirts of magnesium oil.
100-200ug vitK2 MK7 from natto.
15 drop milk thistle (A.Vogel)
1 kelp tablet
10,000UI vit D3 every other day.
dash of a supplement containing biotin.
Since Saturday, the scales have finally moved down a notch in both fat% and weight. Last week, 108Kg 41%F, this week 106.5kg, 40.4%F
Temps are rarely dropping into the 35C range, but normally mid 36C.
Leg oedema is consistently less but toes are still swollen.
Hand joints still painful on bending on waking.
Downsides -
Teeth are achy so I've started rinsing mouth with water after juices.
My spleen area aches, a lot.
I have headaches above the eyes that last for days - just annoying.
Some histamine reactions. I found I might be able to buy cyproheptadine in UK.

So nice to see the scales move. :happy: Thanks all for the posts on the forum and in particular, Ella dna Tara.
 
Last edited:

A.R

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UPDATE
I eased off on the meat content in the broth (because it was wasted as I only drank the gelatine) and as there is some fat content in the broth (probably PUFA as it won't set) I've switched back and forth from powdered marine hydrolysed collagen and broth made from chicken feet and cow heels to get a more consistent intake. I feel as though I'm making progress. Got a couple of wild large prawns and three wild scallops on Saturday and they didn't last me as long as I'd planned. They were yum!
I've finally made peace with regular skimmed instead of protein enhanced milk but skimmed is still horrible in coffee. Weird how it no longer tastes as if it was water :)
No coffee since a couple of cups on Sunday made me nauseous and I had an adrenaline rush all day and into the evening which made me quite aggressive; sorry to my bridge partner.
Reduced my morning milk & OJ smoothie to one raw egg with 1 tsp collagen powder and a splash of sugar or honey. Wild popcorn shrimp (80-100g) or some white rice mix (contains a little PUFA) with a few bits of seafood and chicken (100g tot.) once a day, sometimes twice. Other than that I've slurped OJ & milk (or Milk, then OJ) and honey and sugar and a little 81% dark chocolate. The odd biscuit has snuck in when there was nothing else available one evening. Sometimes some other juices from M&S range. Oh, and salt, lots of Maldon salt. And liver 200g a week - I prefer lamb.
Supplements
1 or 2 75mg aspirin per day.
1 15mg zinc with copper.
1 or 2 400UI mixed tocopherols in soy.
300 - 600mg B3.
1 mega dose B complex.
Several squirts of magnesium oil.
100-200ug vitK2 MK7 from natto.
15 drop milk thistle (A.Vogel)
1 kelp tablet
10,000UI vit D3 every other day.
dash of a supplement containing biotin.
Since Saturday, the scales have finally moved down a notch in both fat% and weight. Last week, 108Kg 41%F, this week 106.5kg, 40.4%F
Temps are rarely dropping into the 35C range, but normally mid 36C.
Leg oedema is consistently less but toes are still swollen.
Hand joints still painful on bending on waking.
Downsides -
Teeth are achy so I've started rinsing mouth with water after juices.
My spleen area aches, a lot.
I have headaches above the eyes that last for days - just annoying.
Some histamine reactions. I found I might be able to buy cyproheptadine in UK.

So nice to see the scales move. :happy: Thanks all for the posts on the forum and in particular, Ella dna Tara.

Could you share your source of where you bought the niacinamide from thanks
 
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Milena

Milena

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Holland and Barrett (UK) Not my usual source for anything but they had a sale. They show it as no-flush Niacin
 
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Milena

Milena

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@haidut
I've developed some asthma symptoms/breathing difficulties this week and some inflamed nerves with scalp itching as well.
I was looking at getting some anti-histamines and see cyproheptadine mentioned quite a lot (and alongside Mirtzapine which is slightly concerning as I typed the name of this drug many times when I work in a mental health dept.)
Are there any contra-indications in using cyproheptadine (only available online, OCD, not via regular high street chemists so far) or would another over the counter anti-histamine work in the meantime?
 

haidut

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@haidut
I've developed some asthma symptoms/breathing difficulties this week and some inflamed nerves with scalp itching as well.
I was looking at getting some anti-histamines and see cyproheptadine mentioned quite a lot (and alongside Mirtzapine which is slightly concerning as I typed the name of this drug many times when I work in a mental health dept.)
Are there any contra-indications in using cyproheptadine (only available online, OCD, not via regular high street chemists so far) or would another over the counter anti-histamine work in the meantime?

I think the OTC chemicals doxylamine and Benadryl should work just as well. Caffeine and other xanthine derivatives like pentoxifyllline are also used clinically for asthma.
 
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Milena

Milena

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I think the OTC chemicals doxylamine and Benadryl should work just as well. Caffeine and other xanthine derivatives like pentoxifyllline are also used clinically for asthma.

I'll try some to get one of those, then, Haidut. Tomorrow in the lunchtime. Thanks for the response.

Feeling crap today after my left trigeminal nerve went ape last week. Anything I ate gave me massive toothache and the problem lasted 4 days. Nothing worked to kill the pain for long although gin, alcoholic mouthwash, salt water, aspirin and cold water helped. No swelling in the tissue, just in the nerve. Finally, I found some bicarbonate of soda which I was going to brush on with a mix of sea salt and colloidal silver. WOW, instant relief from rubbing a bit of bicarb on the gum. That and some magnesium oil sprayed and a handful of Epsom salts in the morning bath kept the problem away at today at work.
How easily we can disturb the fine tuning of these bodies.
I still have uncomfortable breathing and got home to tinnitus after an unwise snack whilst out late.

Damn, things were going so well :)
 
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Milena

Milena

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Woke up this morning feeling wretched. face swollen, cheek sinuses sore and swollen, throat swollen and sore, gums swollen, tooth nerves sore, headache and poor breathing. I don't feel like eating anything so cleaned my teeth, rinsed with CO and had a bath with a few Epsom salts in. Big toe is shouting "gout" :)

Have to go to work so can't go to the doctor :(
I'll go and wallow...
 
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Milena

Milena

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Got my blood form Feb although they are truncated and don't show calculated values or often the complete units.
Free T4 is 17.0
TSH 4.1 umol/L :(
Urea serum is way high at 9.9mmol?/L but
Creatinine 80 umol/L
Other labs seem regular.
 

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