I am QUITTING COFFEE for 100 days

[Mister]

Btw, isn't coffee addiction/quitting/relapsi g a problem only because of the jobs we have? I think is the root problem. If one would live an easy life with no stressful/very demanding job would it be so difficult to quit it? I suspect no.

Ding ding.

Correct.

 

[Runenight201]

I've suffered from suicidal level depression as well as serious anhedonia. For myself certain foods 100% were behind both. Coffee absolutely causes anhedonia for me personally. I can literally turn it off and on with zero other changes in my life. Don't underestimate the powerful serotonin stimulation that can result from gut irritation, food sensitivity and bacteria overgrowth.

I’m the same and I’m only now just thankfully feeling better day in day out, but if I’m not careful I know I can fall back into that hole. Breaking out of my orthorexic, reclusive tendencies and forcing myself out in public spaces like parks and universities have done so much for my mental health. I certainly have that orthorexic spirit embedded in me, but I can’t disregard the effect the social environment has on our health as well!

I feel like it’s more than just a single food. Other users explained how by supplementing manganese they could tolerate coffee. I recall experiences where I would drink one cup of black coffee and instantly became overtaken by paranoia, thinking I would die at any moment. But then I would drink that same black coffee one week later, and I would note just a slight uptick in anxiety, but I got that cognitive boost I was looking for.

I for one would love to restore my starch digesting metabolism, and is something I’m working towards. I do know that I’ve had experiences where I would eat straight salted potatoes plain or salted pasta plain, and over the next 2 hours deal with very intense suicidal thoughts, breathing difficulties, and lowered energy output. All of this very much so from digestive irritation, serotonin overload, perhaps bacterial overgrowth, etc….

But then last night I had a more properly prepared pasta dish and I handled it better, with complete absence of any type of negative, suicidal thoughts. No doubt the protein, fruits, and vegetation I ate the pasta with helped tremendously in ensuring my body received all the necessary cofactors and support to help my body properly assimilate the pasta.

Digging my heels into this, “humans are omnivores and we need diversity of food consumption to be healthy!” ground…

@Makrosky, while not plugging functional patterns here, one REALLY good takeaway I got from their messaging was that our bodies (and consequently) minds get stuck into patterns that we have to break. TMJ, poor posture, anxious minds, etc… have to be stemming from the sum of your entire lifestyle. Desk job, sitting all day, stressed about work? That’s a pattern that results in a typical physiological expression. Cause + effect.

 

[Pulstar]

I noticed that when I take about 3000iu of vitamin D, my coffee needs are significantly reduced. I can skip morning coffee with no problem. I also think that I would benefit from less coffee consumption. Racing thoughts, difficulty to focus and anxiety with increased hunger are the most annoying side effects I get from coffee.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

A shame a 100 day experiment turned into a 9 day one…
Would have been interested to hear your experience as time went on further

 

[Peachy]

Don’t reset the timer! Embrace and continue on

 

[Korven]

A shame a 100 day experiment turned into a 9 day one…
Would have been interested to hear your experience as time went on further

Don’t reset the timer! Embrace and continue on

Oh I still intend to make it to 100 days, just debating whether or not I should count this as day 1 again (i.e. reset the timer, I realize I wasn't being very clear about that).

In some ways I am disappointed about breaking the streak, but also not terribly disappointed as I feel like I'm making good progress towards being permanently decaffeinated, coming from a long history of coffee (ab)use.

I'm not sure how to tackle Christmas/holidays though... there will be many "good" opportunities to drink coffee with friends and family. I have to have some strategy to avoid that from happening.

 

[Peachy]

Oh I still intend to make it to 100 days, just debating whether or not I should count this as day 1 again (i.e. reset the timer, I realize I wasn't being very clear about that).

In some ways I am disappointed about breaking the streak, but also not terribly disappointed as I feel like I'm making good progress towards being permanently decaffeinated, coming from a long history of coffee (ab)use.

I'm not sure how to tackle Christmas/holidays though... there will be many "good" opportunities to drink coffee with friends and family. I have to have some strategy to avoid that from happening.

Honestly I’d not be disappointed in that at all. That’s how I break away from things successfully. A little hair of the dog relieves stress from the process and I for one am interested in the organic journey

 

[Makrosky]

Oh I still intend to make it to 100 days, just debating whether or not I should count this as day 1 again (i.e. reset the timer, I realize I wasn't being very clear about that).

In some ways I am disappointed about breaking the streak, but also not terribly disappointed as I feel like I'm making good progress towards being permanently decaffeinated, coming from a long history of coffee (ab)use.

I'm not sure how to tackle Christmas/holidays though... there will be many "good" opportunities to drink coffee with friends and family. I have to have some strategy to avoid that from happening.

It depends if the experiment is about what happens to my mind when I completely abstain from coffee (like persisting brainfog, sleep issues, etc)
vs.
What happens if I only drink coffee for fun and not forced by external circumstances like job deadlines, stressful events, etc. to whip myself like a donkey.

 

[redsun]

Good news:

I made it 9 days without drinking coffee which is the longest I have gone without since probably... 12-13 years? The improvements that stand out to me are:

- MUCH better impulse control/executive function. Before my mind would sort of 'drag me around' and it would be hard to focus on tasks, avoid distractions, say no to various temptations and other addictions, and so on. Without coffee this is a breeze, I feel like a zen monk and have no problems at all with staying on task. On coffee = 100 tabs open in browser. Off coffee = 2 tabs open.
- Stress resilience increased by 1000%. It's incredible how much better I am able to deal with stress in life without coffee.
- I look much healthier - skin looks more hydrated, dark eye circles are reduced and I haven't had any rosacea skin flareups. This alone makes ditching coffee worth it.
- I feel better overall and am enjoying life more. It seems like coffee may have been causing some of the anhedonia I was experiencing.
- No dependency on any drug or substance to get going in the morning.

Sleep has not gotten drastically better though, maybe that is something that will improve with time or I need to look elsewhere for sleep gains. TMJ symptoms are possibly a bit better but it could also just be a bad posture thing from sitting hunched over at the computer too much.

I should also mention that quitting coffee hasn't been all roses. One unpleasant symptom has been a sense of unease or low-grade anxiety and more worrying. Coffee can sometimes have the effect of 'calming me down' and not having seed water I guess is a shock to the system, explaining the unease and worrying.

Bad news:

I had 1 cup of coffee yesterday morning for... reasons, lol.

My experience is that quitting coffee is sometimes really easy and sometimes really difficult. Yesterday was a particularly difficult day to not drink coffee. The first few days you experience a "buzz" of doing something new and exciting, but then that slowly fades away and you very much want to go and get a coffee. Still I plan to go ahead without coffee, due to the awesome decaf benefits, but am not sure whether to reset the decaffeinated timer. What do you guys think?

Once in a while caffeine intake will not affect your receptors.

The tolerance goes away within 9 days and there would be very little noticeable difference between stopping caffeine for weeks vs 100 days. If you really want to try to 100 days go for it but I would say enjoy the holidays when they come around and do longer streaks afterwards if you really want to. Thats what I would do but its up to you. Again you would really not notice that much different.

Caffeine is a stimulant that upregulates inhibitory receptors (adenosine, serotonin, acetylcholine, and gaba) and downregulates excitatory ones (beta-receptors). When tolerance breaks, the increased inhibitory neurotransmission goes away. This can show up as more anxiety and worry and more perceived stress because your receptors normalize and thus your "natural" stimulation is higher.

 

[Makrosky]

A shame a 100 day experiment turned into a 9 day one…
Would have been interested to hear your experience as time went on further

I am with you. Truly a shame the guy interrupted an experiment shared on an internet forum.

He should have pushed through it and risk failing exams or getting bad grades, not meeting deadlines at work and risk warnings from his boss or having even more stress because of not being able to cope. Or being fired! Who cares! What would be more important than not disappointing strangers on an internet forum?

 

[Korven]

It depends if the experiment is about what happens to my mind when I completely abstain from coffee (like persisting brainfog, sleep issues, etc)
vs.
What happens if I only drink coffee for fun and not forced by external circumstances like job deadlines, stressful events, etc. to whip myself like a donkey.

That's a good question. I think what sparked the "100 days no coffee experiment" is that I am genuinely curious what it would feel like to be 100% un-caffeinated and experience the world "raw" without any mind-altering substances in the way between me and reality. As I mentioned it was such a long time ago that I can't even remember what it feels like. Maybe I have gotten used to a way worse version of life hooked up on caffeine, but I don't realize it because it's become so engrained into my being?

Also, I am a hopeless coffee addict so the 100 days was me trying to shoot for the stars and hopefully end up making it without coffee for at least a few days LOL. When I know what it feels to "be on the other side" so to speak, I may entertain the idea of only having coffee on special occasions... or I may not, we'll see!

Once in a while caffeine intake will not affect your receptors.

The tolerance goes away within 9 days and there would be very little noticeable difference between stopping caffeine for weeks vs 100 days. If you really want to try to 100 days go for it but I would say enjoy the holidays when they come around and do longer streaks afterwards if you really want to. Thats what I would do but its up to you. Again you would really not notice that much different.

Caffeine is a stimulant that upregulates inhibitory receptors (adenosine, serotonin, acetylcholine, and gaba) and downregulates excitatory ones (beta-receptors). When tolerance breaks, the increased inhibitory neurotransmission goes away. This can show up as more anxiety and worry and more perceived stress because your receptors normalize and thus your "natural" stimulation is higher.

Huh that is super interesting about long-term caffeine upregulating inhibitory signalling like GABA. So this could explain why I experienced more OCD thoughts and general anxiety/not feeling at ease during caffeine withdrawals. I found myself worrying about a stupid test that I have to do in January and I normally never worry about these kinds of things in the future. This has gone away now though.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Another coffee thread yaaayyyyy. Thanks @Korven.

In the name of trying to be useful:

Over the last 6 years I've tried to keep a finger on the pulse of how coffee has affected me throughout many radical (and often irresponsible) dietary & lifestyle interventions, including taking 10 days off of all caffeine on a few occasions. At this point, it feels rather demystified for me, so I'd like to share various points/hypotheses that I've perceived to be 'true' about the magic brown water:

-coffee doesn't offer MORE energy, it just causes the existing reserves of stored energy to be expended at an increased rate.

-coffee is a STRESS. It depletes all bodily reserves in the name of increasing metabolism. It requires that the liver has protein and saturated fat and that the adrenals have all water soluble nutrients including B vitamins, vitamin C, electrolytes, and trace minerals. For as many weak links are in the chain of the total body nutritional reserves, the stress response of taking coffee will be amplified further and further. On a brief note... when my health was the worst it's ever been, 1 tablespoon of coffee would cause me to lose 2 liters of urine within 30 minutes and I'd be locked in a state of fight or flight for several hours afterwards.

-if coffee is causing appetite suppression, this is an easy way of telling that nutritional reserves are too low.

-coffee will demineralize the body similar to excessive fruit intake or apple cider vinegar. It notably reduces magnesium and B vitamins.

-when coffee is consumed between the solar hours of 6-11AM, it digests WAY better than any other time of day. If looking for caffeine after 11AM solar time, tea will digest best between 12-3PM.

-very low quality coffee will give a more immediate feeling of wired-ness because of heavy metals, mold, pesticides, genetic modification, and over-roasting of the beans.

-high quality coffee will offer a pleasant mood increase without a rushed sensation of mental hyperactivity, and can also be reliably consumed in much larger quantities compared to cheap coffee with little negative side effect.

-well cooked vegetable soups, trace mineral supplements such as concentrated seawater or fulvic acid, vitamin C and the B vitamins altogether are the road to restoring adrenal glands to better tolerate the stress response that comes from drinking coffee. These same substances are what dictate the 'craving' sensation for caffeine. If craving caffeine, you're lacking all of the aforementioned water soluble nutrients. Water itself is also important to this equation.

-raw animal fat, animal protein, and various sugar sources are the primary restorative substances for the liver to deal with the increased rate of action that coffee causes it to work at.

-the adrenal stress effect of coffee means that more sleep will be required for recovery.

-10 days of abstaining from caffeine will reset the adenosine receptors of the brain to baseline.

-if trying to wean off of coffee, chewing a few coffee beans and spitting out the pulp can attenuate some withdrawal symptoms.

-in traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), coffee is said to increase liver qi (energy) yet weaken the spleen. Oppositely, green tea is said to support the spleen.

-when coffee causes excess acidity, this is due to a classic 'detox reaction' of the blood becoming more acidic on account of circulating metals, fats, etc, going into the bloodstream. Appetite suppression is also a result of being excessively acidic.

-the dark circles under the eyes which come from excessive coffee consumption are some combination of overwhelmed adrenal glands, sluggish liver, nervous system detox, and lackluster sleep quality (which dramatically slows down nervous system detox).

-fat-deficient people are more prone to emotional swings and 'crashing' after coffee consumption.

-saturated animal fat will greatly slow the rate of caffeine uptake, however fruit fats such as palm, olive, avocado, or coconut will greatly intensify the possible symptoms of excess acidity.

 

[Korven]

This experiment has been really enlightening so far.

So I managed to go without coffee for 2+ weeks again. I have noticed a TON of benefits and will probably write about those in another post. But what I wanted to write about is that I started eating lots of starches again (doing a no dairy experiment) and have gradually started experiencing major gut irritation/endotoxin and serotonin symptoms and cravings for bad stuff. Foolishly I thought I would be able to digest starches such as pasta and bread and oatmeal without coffee in the diet as coffee has been shown to inhibit pancreatic amylase... but alas, no. Maybe I have a persistent gut infection that feeds of starches or fibers in specific starches.

I am 100% sure this is gut related as it always start with diffuse pain in the colon and some bloating, followed by brain fog, flu like symptoms, and an uncomfortable, stressed feeling. This gradually builds and becomes unbearable to the point where I have to get relief somehow (drugs, coffee, porn). I am thinking this has been a problem my entire life but it manifested in different ways when I was younger.

So it seems like it's NOT coffee that is causing these physical and mental issues. What I have observed is that when I feel this crappy I NEED to do something to self-medicate and take away the pain and coffee is perfect for this. is a way to get short term relief (possibly through dopamine/opioid boost, pooping or endotoxin antagonism?) but is not the root cause as mentioned above. If I continue eating the wrong gut irritating foods AND drink coffee I end up in a vicious stress cycle.

I am pretty sure the culprit is either eating gluten and/or starches and fermentable fiber. The PROBLEM is that I need a ton of calories or otherwise I suffer symptoms of under-eating. 5 liters of milk per day diet is okay but seems to give me some skin problems so I am not sure what to do. I may stick with just rice and potatoes and see if those are okay starch sources for me.

TL;DR: I think I have been drinking so much coffee to mask other health issues.

 

[Korven]

@Twohandsondeck thanks that was an epic writeup on coffee, you can only find this stuff on RPF

 

[Vileplume]

@Korven William Blake would be proud of your self-experimentation.

 

[redsun]

This experiment has been really enlightening so far.

So I managed to go without coffee for 2+ weeks again. I have noticed a TON of benefits and will probably write about those in another post. But what I wanted to write about is that I started eating lots of starches again (doing a no dairy experiment) and have gradually started experiencing major gut irritation/endotoxin and serotonin symptoms and cravings for bad stuff. Foolishly I thought I would be able to digest starches such as pasta and bread and oatmeal without coffee in the diet as coffee has been shown to inhibit pancreatic amylase... but alas, no. Maybe I have a persistent gut infection that feeds of starches or fibers in specific starches.

I am 100% sure this is gut related as it always start with diffuse pain in the colon and some bloating, followed by brain fog, flu like symptoms, and an uncomfortable, stressed feeling. This gradually builds and becomes unbearable to the point where I have to get relief somehow (drugs, coffee, porn). I am thinking this has been a problem my entire life but it manifested in different ways when I was younger.

So it seems like it's NOT coffee that is causing these physical and mental issues. What I have observed is that when I feel this crappy I NEED to do something to self-medicate and take away the pain and coffee is perfect for this. is a way to get short term relief (possibly through dopamine/opioid boost, pooping or endotoxin antagonism?) but is not the root cause as mentioned above. If I continue eating the wrong gut irritating foods AND drink coffee I end up in a vicious stress cycle.

I am pretty sure the culprit is either eating gluten and/or starches and fermentable fiber. The PROBLEM is that I need a ton of calories or otherwise I suffer symptoms of under-eating. 5 liters of milk per day diet is okay but seems to give me some skin problems so I am not sure what to do. I may stick with just rice and potatoes and see if those are okay starch sources for me.

TL;DR: I think I have been drinking so much coffee to mask other health issues.

I don't really understand how anyone can drink 5 liters of milk a day. If you only drink milk you will only ever be able to tolerate milk because the gut adapts to the food you eat which takes time and can be uncomfortable. The other issue is the sheer amount of liquid and the lack of sodium in milk would further worsen already poor digestion. Most people will see improvement in digestion when they avoid excessive liquid calorie consumption and get more salt (4g+ sodium/day) and only drink based on thirst. Then there's to eventual problem of iron deficiency with all that milk which reduces T3 levels and ATP production.

The more foods you restrict the less tolerant you are to everything. You can have people who were having minor issues from their mixed diet drop some foods and have new issues pop up and then they keep dropping foods until their food choice is incredibly limited and now they are sensitive to almost everything.

 

[Korven]

@Korven William Blake would be proud of your self-experimentation.

Thanks - I am trying!

I don't really understand how anyone can drink 5 liters of milk a day. If you only drink milk you will only ever be able to tolerate milk because the gut adapts to the food you eat which takes time and can be uncomfortable. The other issue is the sheer amount of liquid and the lack of sodium in milk would further worsen already poor digestion. Most people will see improvement in digestion when they avoid excessive liquid calorie consumption and get more salt (4g+ sodium/day) and only drink based on thirst. Then there's to eventual problem of iron deficiency with all that milk which reduces T3 levels and ATP production.

The more foods you restrict the less tolerant you are to everything. You can have people who were having minor issues from their mixed diet drop some foods and have new issues pop up and then they keep dropping foods until their food choice is incredibly limited and now they are sensitive to almost everything.

When I wrote "5 liters of milk a day diet" what I actually meant was a starch-free diet with quite a bit of milk, but also meats, fruit, vegetables etc. Sorry for the confusion, I wrote that post pretty fast/sloppily on my phone and didn't mean that I literally ate only 5 liters of milk per day for months. That would lack some vital nutrients like iron.

You make good points and I agree that unnecessarily restrictive diets can weaken digestion. But even so, I have had periods in my life where I have had zero restrictions - eating 5000 calories per day of meats, potatoes, rice, pasta, fruits and digesting it fine - and still experienced these exact same issues. I guess you could argue that it is 'psychological' but I doubt that. Like I said, I have experienced these states since when I was a small child (gut pain, stressed feeling), and I can switch it on and off pretty reliably just by eating, or not eating, specific foods.

 

[Korven]

I realized the previous post may come off as me not wanting input or advice here, that was not the intention. Any suggestions on how to eat a more balanced and diverse diet (without experiencing negative symptoms) are appreciated! So far the only thing that helps is to eat a pretty strict diet and avoid offending foods.

 

[redsun]

I realized the previous post may come off as me not wanting your input or advice, that was not the case. Any suggestions on how to eat a more balanced and diverse diet are appreciated. So far the only thing that helps is to eat a pretty strict diet and avoid offending foods.

It didnt come off that way to me actually. I know it is frustrating to be in this kind of position.

Thanks - I am trying!



When I wrote "5 liters of milk a day diet" what I actually meant was a starch-free diet with quite a bit of milk, but also meats, fruit, vegetables etc. Sorry for the confusion, I wrote that post pretty fast/sloppily on my phone and didn't mean that I literally ate only 5 liters of milk per day for months. That would lack some vital nutrients like iron.

You make good points and I agree that unnecessarily restrictive diets can weaken digestion. But even so, I have had periods in my life where I have had zero restrictions - eating 5000 calories per day of meats, potatoes, rice, pasta, fruits and digesting it fine - and still experienced these exact same issues. I guess you could argue that it is 'psychological' but I doubt that. Like I said, I have experienced these states since when I was a small child (gut pain, stressed feeling), and I can switch it on and off pretty reliably just by eating, or not eating, specific foods.

I think you should do what you already suggested you wanted to do which is try to include starches that are more tolerable first. If you cant eat others then really its not the end of the world. Its nice if you can but you dont need them to live. But you will have an easier time getting calories if you have some form of starch available to you.

 

[Mll777]

I was inspired by this thread and was hoping that maybe quiting coffee would relieve some of my issues. I am off the coffee now for 3 weeks, and I notice absolutely no difference whatsoever.

How long would you recommend to stop?