Hypogonadism

[Cirion]

@Cirion
To be honest I dont track my pulse and temp anymore. It didnt seem all that helpful for me. When i did my heart rate was 60 bpm every day no matter what. My temp. was between 97.5 or so to 98.0.

I think you’d have to try higher fat in your current context before any conclusions can be made. Considering your context overall (from what you’ve posted on the forum) I’m not so sure that we can conclude pulse and temp are the ideal metrics above them all.

EDIT: I dont recommend everyone eat 200g of fat, this was just my example.

Ahh, there it is then. I know you will disagree, but I think your diet isn't/wasn't optimal or at least back then it wasn't., I can't comment on now if you don't have recent temp/pulse measurements.

That said, if you truly feel good, no depression, good sleep, good energy, great libido, workout recovery, all that, then by all means keep at it though.

Yeah fat makes me fat, so I'm not doing that again.Only as a last resort. And I doubt I will, because I have many days now I get well over 98F and 80 bpm with high carb low fat.


One other biometric that is really good too is CO2. I would track this if I had a Capnograph. The ideal CO2 saturation to be is 6%. With most people being at like 4% or less.

Considering your context overall (from what you’ve posted on the forum) I’m not so sure that we can conclude pulse and temp are the ideal metrics above them all.

I have only recently begun to seriously track waking temp and pulse. I was messing around earlier with crappy macros that were making me sicker and fatter until about a month or two ago.

 

[CLASH]

@Cirion
I work and live on a night schedule so until I hop off I doubt anything is going to be perfect. All of the subjective metrics you listed are great for me, despite having fractured sleep and sometimes only getting 2-4 hours at most. I can still workout, i can still have sex mutliple times a day, my mood is fine, my hair isnt falling out, my brain works well. The night shift is murderous on my sleep tho.

I did the low carb thing man, it wrecked me. All of the metrics you listed above were terrible. I couldnt even get an erection at 22 years old.... i went from sex multiple times a day on low carb high fat to impotent on low fat. Low carb did have its own problems tho so I definetly dont support that. I have seen the results i got, mirrored in 4 other people of completely different races: a caucasian jewish male, a chinese female, a hispanic- black female and a hispanic male. A few of them came from low fat and where having the same issues I was.

Are you currently losing significant amounts of weight? I think some of these specific metrics may be too reductionistic, especially
In isolation. Plus I dont think many people know how to interpret them properly.

 

[Cirion]

@Cirion
I work and live on a night schedule so until I hop off I doubt anything is going to be perfect. All of the subjective metrics you listed are great for me, despite having fractured sleep and sometimes only getting 2-4 hours at most. I can still workout, i can still have sex mutliple times a day, my mood is fine, my hair isnt falling out, my brain works well. The night shift is murderous on my sleep tho.

I did the low carb thing man, it wrecked me. All of the metrics you listed above were terrible. I couldnt even get an erection at 22 years old.... i went from sex multiple times a day on low carb high fat to impotent on low fat. Low carb did have its own problems tho so I definetly dont support that. I have seen the results i got, mirrored in 4 other people of completely different races: a caucasian jewish male, a chinese female, a hispanic- black female and a hispanic male. A few of them came from low fat and where having the same issues I was.

Are you currently losing significant amounts of weight? I think some of these specific metrics may be too reductionistic, especially
In isolation. Plus I dont think many people know how to interpret them properly.

Well, I am certainly happy it seems to work well enough for you seemingly.

My weight is almost directly correlated to my body temps and pulses. I have not yet consistently gotten my body temps and pulses to 98.6F and 85 BPM each and every day. Therefore I haven't really gone down much yet. I am sure people will be quick to pounce on that and say "See, you're wrong", but well, people can think what they want but I know I'm right. But, I am definitely eager to get on the train of 98.6F and 85BPM every day, so that I can actually start losing weight in earnest, and people will be quick to believe me then I'm sure, but that's fine. The proof will be coming soon. I'm very very close to figuring out how to get the temp and pulse up every day.

You are right that most people don't know how to interpret bio metrics correctly though. I am not gonna lie, if I wasn't an engineer professionally, I probably wouldn't be able to do it. Luckily, I have extensive experience with deciphering complex data sets. And that is one of many reasons I am so confident that I am on the brink of finally getting where I need to be. I dunno if you saw my thread already, but I'm writing about my experiences and discoveries here.

Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

I'd like to have CO2 measurements also, but capnographs can cost like $5000, which I don't really care to shell out at this point in time. One day perhaps.

The thing is weight loss isn't even my main goal - optimizing hormones and metabolism is. That's why I ask about temps and pulses (and CO2 levels). Weight loss IS EASY. I can do it any day I want. But most traditional methods of weight loss make me feel like *** and completely ruin me, so no, I'm done losing weight just to lose weight.

 

[CLASH]

@Cirion
Are you getting consistent hormone panels then?

At what point have you set for yourself to determinr that your current protocol isnt working for you? 1 month? 2 months? A year?

I think avoiding weightloss as a metric would be foolish. With that said I dont recommend starvation or low carb or excessive exercise as solutions.

 

[Cirion]

@Cirion
Are you getting consistent hormone panels then?

At what point have you set for yourself to determinr that your current protocol isnt working for you? 1 month? 2 months? A year?

I think avoiding weightloss as a metric would be foolish. With that said I dont recommend starvation or low carb or excessive exercise as solutions.

I don't think hormone panels are that helpful to be perfectly blunt. Ok, let me rephrase. They have some value, but only for determining the effects of changes over a consistent, long period of time, and not for the minutae and optimizing multiple small changes. Also, doing that frequently is expensive. Hence temp/pulse/(CO2, if you can).

I don't avoid weightloss as a metric. Here is my most recent data analysis. What I did was plot 3 day rolling average carb/protein/fat intake vs. 3 day rolling avg waking pulse,temp, and weight change (gain or loss). Then I put red line "limits" at the points of interest (threshold of wt gain or loss, threshold of 80+ bpm pulse and 98.4F+ temp), highlighted the areas/ranges of interest for fat/protein/carb intake, and finally took the intersecting areas/ranges of all 3 to narrow down the appropriate protein/carb/fat intake (roughly). By taking the intersection of all 3 pulse,temp and weight, I achieve the goal of not only losing weight but also optimizing metabolism. There is still a lot of fine tuning to do.

For your last question, 1 month of 98.6F temp and 85 bpm pulse each and every morning should be more than sufficient to determine its working. I haven't been able to do this for more than 2-3 days in a row yet. Even just 2 weeks will probably be enough. It'll certainly take a few months to a year to get fully well, but I won't need that long to know I'm on the right track.

 

[Satellite]

I am trying to stay away from these T based threads. I guess I will never know life with anything higher than 400's. No matter what supplement I try.

What have you tried?
What is your metabolism like?
And I don’t mean fast or slow.
I mean are you more acidic with a cancer metabolism (fat burning)?
Or are you more alkaline with an oxidative metabolism and burn sugar?

Someone else like you on here tried the supplements below with great success, have you ever taken anything that specifically tells your body (testicles) to produce more test?

You have to take test boosters not just exogenous test.

Try Thor’s hammer by Valhalla-Labs dot com
Or
Tongkat Ali, raw pine pollen, and beta sitosterol by raw forest foods dot com

They work really for everyone I know who has tried them and there are studies backing them up.

 

[Satellite]

I’m in the same boat. Exactly the same level of testosterone, and it’s been the same for years (400). Nothing improves it. But get this, I’m 6ft, muscular, I have thick facial hair and a deep voice. Yet a teenager with no facial hair, a squeaky voice and no muscle can have twice my testosterone level. I think these hormonal lab values are pretty meaningless. I paid £300 to have all my hormones tested and to be told that I have low everything basically. My DHT is also 29 (an absolute joke). Yet girls tell me I’m ‘manly’. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. They are just numbers on a screen and tell me nothing.

I also have ED, and that’s a fairly obvious side effect of my hormonal status situation I guess (?), but what can I do? Nothing on this forum has worked. And I’ve been hardcore PUFA restricting for five years now.

So I give no more craps about this silly insignificant rubbish (hormonal labs). There’s more important things to worry about in life. And not wasting my money on it again.

Put it this way, the RP lifestyle has done nothing for my androgens. I’ve messaged Peat himself and he doesn’t have any answers because as we know, he’s never going to compromise his own position by risking his neck and giving out medical advice to people. Hence his answers are always ‘how is your thyroid and vitamin D status’. I love the guy, but you are very much on your own with this stuff. After my health problems started (years after following his dietary/lifestyle recommendations) my family have been trying to beg me to stop bothering with these alternative health interests (they think my alternative approach, in opposition to mainstream advice, has led to my health issues), and the embarrassing thing is, I don’t have a leg to stand on. I can’t exactly disagree with them. It used to be me guiding them and trying to make recommendations to them (because I knew ‘the truth’), and now they realise that I was wrong all along, and they now think that I am a quack that has been following the wrong advice. And they are right. Well they are. The results speak for themselves. I have chronically low androgens, ED and proteinuria. And I presume that is just the start of my health problems. My situation, as I age, will only get progressively worse and not better.

So where do I go from here? Go on the dark web and get TRT? What else can I do? I will always restrict PUFA. That’s one thing I take with me from the Peat lifestyle, but I follow nothing else that he advises because it hasn’t really worked out for me.

Just reading this back, it sounds like I’m ranting. I’m really not. Just letting you guys know that you’re not the only ones with this miserable disorder.

I need to PM some ppl to speak about TRT and how to get it. I get one life and that’s it. I’ve wasted enough of my time with this now.

Good luck to everyone #thumbs up

You are correct, bloodwork is only useful if you get it monthly, maybe quarterly. But it still doesn’t explain how your body utilizes things. It can offer better perspective though if you know what you’re doing.

Sounds like you have good androgen sensitivity, so your body gets the most out of the little bit it produces. That’s a good thing.

My guess is that you have high progesterone since you are muscular with nice hair. Progesterone combats estrogen but too high and it combats test too. Too high progesterone contributes to gyno too.

If your dht is also low, you probably have good dhea >test > estrogen, it’s turning to estrogen and then you’re producing a ton of progesterone to balance it out. It should be dhea > test > dht instead.

The production path starts at cholesterol > pregnenolone then splits to either of two paths: preg > prog > dht or preg > dhea > test > dhea

Of course it’s more complicated than that, there’s a diagram of it in a thread somewhere.

You don’t need trt necessarily, just a shift from estrogen dominance to androgen dominance.

So supplement test, produce more test naturally, and also utilize that test best is the three prong approach needed.

Try raw pollen powder, tongkat Ali, and beta sitosterol from raw forest foods dot com

Or Thor’s hammer by Valhalla-labs dot com

Or driven sports products are good too

Arimistane or letrozole is a must.

The thing people misapply about peat is that it’s this or that, like it’s never one thing like just add vitamin D and you’re all fixed up.

Peat’s work is about metabolism. In short, acidic cancer/tumor metabolism (fat burning) vs alkaline oxidative metabolism (sugar burning). The metabolism determines everything else.

It’s not really possible for Peat to give you proper advice like you want as that’s highly individualistic. But he’s given the high level advice needed through his articles. You are right though, it’s up to you to figure things out, even if you use a doctor.

You can PM if you want.

 

[Satellite]

Shrunken testicles, watery semen, weight gain without changing diet, no libido, bad sleep and my doctor says it’s stress. What a ****head.

How can I fix this, it’s clear I’m suffering from low t. I’m getting my blood test results soon. But even if it’s low it will probs be in the “norm” ranges e.g the having the test levels of a 60 year old.

I’m also really ******* depressed about this and don’t want to go on holiday anymore due to the rapid weight gain etc.

Going on t at my age is ******* embarrassing, is their anyway to kickstart my testicles into working like HCG?

Technically, you are not suffering from low T, the low T is a symptom. Yes stress is an issue, but to just say it’s stress and dismiss you is criminal!

Also, there are like 5-6 other steps to be completed before the T is created.

Cholesterol > pregnenolone > becomes dhea > test > estrogen or dht OR preg > becomes progesterone > dht

Do you eat eggs? The most insane libido I ever had was taking Thor’s hammer by Valhalla-labs dot com while eating 12 eggs a day.

I now know it was all the cholesterol and the supplement boosting testicular production via the hpta axis while blocking aromatase.

I mean it was crazy. My balls got so big n full they scared one girl. My semen was thick, white n plentiful. And I could have multiple orgasms.

Same with the herbal stack I took from raw forest foods dot com and also the stack from driven sports.

Give it a try then post the results!

 

[Hairlosssucks]

I guess I am biased. Because testosterone works and works very well. I wasted about 6 years trying all the diet and natural stuff. It rarely works and may work better if your secondary or have other issues that's causing the low testosterone. I have a pituitary issue so nothing natural will work for me. I personally wouldn't give it more than a 1-2 years before going on TRT, especially if your levels are near bottom of range or lower. If your younger than 25 id give it more time to bounce back too.

Why not try a low dose topical testosterone from your doctor? Could always stop and go off after several weeks.

I’m in my early 20s, but I have heard of people using hcg or clomid to kickstart the testicles to correct function.

 

[olive]

I’m in the same boat. Exactly the same level of testosterone, and it’s been the same for years (400). Nothing improves it. But get this, I’m 6ft, muscular, I have thick facial hair and a deep voice. Yet a teenager with no facial hair, a squeaky voice and no muscle can have twice my testosterone level. I think these hormonal lab values are pretty meaningless. I paid £300 to have all my hormones tested and to be told that I have low everything basically. My DHT is also 29 (an absolute joke). Yet girls tell me I’m ‘manly’. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. They are just numbers on a screen and tell me nothing.

That’s because absolute T/DHT levels mean very little. Androgen receptor density is the real biomarker you want to increase. I’m surprised this is not well known on this forum already. It’s been thoroughly discussed in steroid circles for many years. There’s a reason why one guy with 2000ng/dl T grows faster, bigger, stronger than another guy on an equivalent dose - and thats androgen receptor density, something largely predetermined for you by your mothers hormonal levels. There’s a few ways to increase it; blast high doses of AAS and LCTC being the most studied.

Muscle Androgen Receptor Content but Not Systemic Hormones Is Associated With Resistance Training-Induced Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy in Healthy, Young Men

 

[Frankdee20]

What have you tried?
What is your metabolism like?
And I don’t mean fast or slow.
I mean are you more acidic with a cancer metabolism (fat burning)?
Or are you more alkaline with an oxidative metabolism and burn sugar?

Someone else like you on here tried the supplements below with great success, have you ever taken anything that specifically tells your body (testicles) to produce more test?

You have to take test boosters not just exogenous test.

Try Thor’s hammer by Valhalla-Labs dot com
Or
Tongkat Ali, raw pine pollen, and beta sitosterol by raw forest foods dot com

They work really for everyone I know who has tried them and there are studies backing them up.

I checked out the ingredients in Thor Hammer and the only thing in it that may increase Test would be the 7-8 benzoflavone. That works like an aromatase inhibitor, but I’d rather buy that from Barlow’s as a stand alone product for less. I have never tried AI’s of any type.

 

[Satellite]

I checked out the ingredients in Thor Hammer and the only thing in it that may increase Test would be the 7-8 benzoflavone. That works like an aromatase inhibitor, but I’d rather buy that from Barlow’s as a stand alone product for less. I have never tried AI’s of any type.

Negative. That’s probably the ingredient that’s the least important. You didn’t see the arimistane?! Not sure why 7,8 benzo garnered any attention frankly, it’s weaker.

Sodium D-aspartate is not aspartic acid. The studies are all done using aspartic acid, which doesn’t work, the testers used the wrong kind. I can promise you sodium d-aspartate works better than anything out there for turning the testicles on.

The rest of the products regulate/decrease estrogen and cortisol while also boosting the androgen receptors.

As a standalone this product has given better results than some prohormones. Taking it with prohormones is money.

The herbal stack from raw forest foods is a good one too. I told someone else about it on here and they reported positive results.

Driven sports products work well for me also.

 

[Satellite]

That’s because absolute T/DHT levels mean very little. Androgen receptor density is the real biomarker you want to increase. I’m surprised this is not well known on this forum already. It’s been thoroughly discussed in steroid circles for many years. There’s a reason why one guy with 2000ng/dl T grows faster, bigger, stronger than another guy on an equivalent dose - and thats androgen receptor density, something largely predetermined for you by your mothers hormonal levels. There’s a few ways to increase it; blast high doses of AAS and LCTC being the most studied.

Muscle Androgen Receptor Content but Not Systemic Hormones Is Associated With Resistance Training-Induced Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy in Healthy, Young Men

This ^

Utilizing 100% of 100 mg is better than injections of 500 mg but only utilizing 50 mg , that is how you get the nasty side effects.

It really doesn’t take much to shift towards androgen dominance. More testosterone isn’t always better unless you need it to maintain muscle mass.

 

[Frankdee20]

Negative. That’s probably the ingredient that’s the least important. You didn’t see the arimistane?! Not sure why 7,8 benzo garnered any attention frankly, it’s weaker.

Sodium D-aspartate is not aspartic acid. The studies are all done using aspartic acid, which doesn’t work, the testers used the wrong kind. I can promise you sodium d-aspartate works better than anything out there for turning the testicles on.

The rest of the products regulate/decrease estrogen and cortisol while also boosting the androgen receptors.

As a standalone this product has given better results than some prohormones. Taking it with prohormones is money.

The herbal stack from raw forest foods is a good one too. I told someone else about it on here and they reported positive results.

Driven sports products work well for me also.

Nice, thank you. I did not catch that. I never even heard of Sodium D Aspartate. I certainly cannot find it on Amazon as a distinuishable product.

 

[brix]

Does anyone have any tips for pure testosterone in Vit E or DMSO? Want to make something that is 1mg drop like Ray Peat. Curious where to purchase pure test. Thanks.

 

[Spondive]

You are correct, bloodwork is only useful if you get it monthly, maybe quarterly. But it still doesn’t explain how your body utilizes things. It can offer better perspective though if you know what you’re doing.

Sounds like you have good androgen sensitivity, so your body gets the most out of the little bit it produces. That’s a good thing.

My guess is that you have high progesterone since you are muscular with nice hair. Progesterone combats estrogen but too high and it combats test too. Too high progesterone contributes to gyno too.

If your dht is also low, you probably have good dhea >test > estrogen, it’s turning to estrogen and then you’re producing a ton of progesterone to balance it out. It should be dhea > test > dht instead.

The production path starts at cholesterol > pregnenolone then splits to either of two paths: preg > prog > dht or preg > dhea > test > dhea

Of course it’s more complicated than that, there’s a diagram of it in a thread somewhere.

You don’t need trt necessarily, just a shift from estrogen dominance to androgen dominance.

So supplement test, produce more test naturally, and also utilize that test best is the three prong approach needed.

Try raw pollen powder, tongkat Ali, and beta sitosterol from raw forest foods dot com

Or Thor’s hammer by Valhalla-labs dot com

Or driven sports products are good too

Arimistane or letrozole is a must.

The thing people misapply about peat is that it’s this or that, like it’s never one thing like just add vitamin D and you’re all fixed up.

Peat’s work is about metabolism. In short, acidic cancer/tumor metabolism (fat burning) vs alkaline oxidative metabolism (sugar burning). The metabolism determines everything else.

It’s not really possible for Peat to give you proper advice like you want as that’s highly individualistic. But he’s given the high level advice needed through his articles. You are right though, it’s up to you to figure things out, even if you use a doctor.

You can PM if you want.

Why beta-sitosterol?

 

[marsaday]

You need bloods.

Testosterone may be good, but oestrogen is high, so the ratio is out. SHBG could also be high.

I am 47 and in the last yr have had issues with tiredness, weakness and body aching. I am not over weight and i exercise so i should be ok for testosterone.

I had bloods and SHBG was much higher than previous bloods. So i am actually at the bottom of the range on the androgen index, even though testosterone is mid range.

So i tried clomid first. It did nothing, but made me feel a little worse. I think i put on a bit of weight (fatty/watery stuff around the waist).

The bloods showed testosterone went to the top of the range, shbg went even higher, FSH and LH rocketed and oestrogen went through the roof.

So no good for me.

I am just starting the testosterone gel using a very low dose at the moment. I am doing one pump every other day, so this is 10mg per day.

It helps and i want to see bloods before i go up.

It sounds like your oestrogen is high, thats what i am thinking.

 

[postman]

That’s because absolute T/DHT levels mean very little. Androgen receptor density is the real biomarker you want to increase. I’m surprised this is not well known on this forum already. It’s been thoroughly discussed in steroid circles for many years. There’s a reason why one guy with 2000ng/dl T grows faster, bigger, stronger than another guy on an equivalent dose - and thats androgen receptor density, something largely predetermined for you by your mothers hormonal levels. There’s a few ways to increase it; blast high doses of AAS and LCTC being the most studied.

Muscle Androgen Receptor Content but Not Systemic Hormones Is Associated With Resistance Training-Induced Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy in Healthy, Young Men

LCTC?

 

[outtherebrother]

Negative. That’s probably the ingredient that’s the least important. You didn’t see the arimistane?! Not sure why 7,8 benzo garnered any attention frankly, it’s weaker.

Sodium D-aspartate is not aspartic acid. The studies are all done using aspartic acid, which doesn’t work, the testers used the wrong kind. I can promise you sodium d-aspartate works better than anything out there for turning the testicles on.

The rest of the products regulate/decrease estrogen and cortisol while also boosting the androgen receptors.

As a standalone this product has given better results than some prohormones. Taking it with prohormones is money.

The herbal stack from raw forest foods is a good one too. I told someone else about it on here and they reported positive results.

Driven sports products work well for me also.

Nice, thank you. I did not catch that. I never even heard of Sodium D Aspartate. I certainly cannot find it on Amazon as a distinuishable product.

Sodium D-aspartate is the ionic form of aspartic acid which in solution dissociates into a sodium ion and aspartic acid. This is simple acid base chemistry. Consumption of the ionic form of aspartic acid could possibly increase absorption however.

 

[Satellite]

Nice, thank you. I did not catch that. I never even heard of Sodium D Aspartate. I certainly cannot find it on Amazon as a distinuishable product.

You probably won’t as aspartic acid is what is used by mainstream as it is cheaper.

Haidut said aspartic acid is neurotoxic in high doses, so take it slow at first if you decide to try it. I do split doses sometimes and do 2 days on 1 off.

What I have done, albeit not as successfully, is use Thor’s hammer without the sodium d- aspartate and just substitute something else like pure tongkat Ali and raw pine pollen to get the testis going. It worked really well too, but takes longer to take full effect.

If you are just looking for an androgen & dopamine boost, the driven sports stack is a beauty, works like a charm. Or you could add the Thor’s hammer AI powder. I like doing that because it’s viagra-like and keeps me very sexual for the ladies. I think they’ll agree it’s more masculine than big muscles too