Hypogonadism

Satellite

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Jun 22, 2018
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Why beta-sitosterol?

According to raw forest foods dot com, it’s the main ingredient in nettle root that provides most of the benefits. They say either works, but nettle root is more general/holistic, whereas beta sitosterol is if you specifically want more prostate benefits.

Check out their blog posts on androgens too, it’s pretty interesting.
 

Satellite

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Sodium D-aspartate is the ionic form of aspartic acid which in solution dissociates into a sodium ion and aspartic acid. This is simple acid base chemistry. Consumption of the ionic form of aspartic acid could possibly increase absorption however.

Thank you for the clarification, I am not a technical expert, so that’s interesting to know.

What I really meant though was not to confuse the two. Plain aspartic acid does not work, only the sodium d-aspartate works. Quite well really. Just watch out for signs of neurotoxicity if using high doses.

Unfortunately, the study the doctor referenced used 3g on an empty stomach in the morning.

I usually use half scoops twice a day if possible.

But that’s also why I suggested purchasing it but only using the AI powder. I did that replacing it with tongkat Ali and pine pollen and it works really well too.

My favorite though is the Thor’s hammer with driven sports activate and lean xtreme. Those three turn me into a man freak with great energy and memory too. The only thing better is 4 andro for me, but 4 andro is hard to do long term because I get too muscular! Being big is exhausting.
 

Spondive

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According to raw forest foods dot com, it’s the main ingredient in nettle root that provides most of the benefits. They say either works, but nettle root is more general/holistic, whereas beta sitosterol is if you specifically want more prostate benefits.

Check out their blog posts on androgens too, it’s pretty interesting.
I have low Total T and low shbg and normal range free T..I would think in my case beta sitosterol would be counter intuitive in my case..estradiol is low probably due to low Total T because not much to aromatize
 
Joined
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Thank you for the clarification, I am not a technical expert, so that’s interesting to know.

What I really meant though was not to confuse the two. Plain aspartic acid does not work, only the sodium d-aspartate works. Quite well really. Just watch out for signs of neurotoxicity if using high doses.

Unfortunately, the study the doctor referenced used 3g on an empty stomach in the morning.

I usually use half scoops twice a day if possible.

But that’s also why I suggested purchasing it but only using the AI powder. I did that replacing it with tongkat Ali and pine pollen and it works really well too.

My favorite though is the Thor’s hammer with driven sports activate and lean xtreme. Those three turn me into a man freak with great energy and memory too. The only thing better is 4 andro for me, but 4 andro is hard to do long term because I get too muscular! Being big is exhausting.

How much sodium D-aspartate do you take and how do you dose it? Also are you taking the supplements "Thor's hammer", "Driven Sports Activate" and "Lean Xtreme" and Sodium D-aspartate all at the same time?
 
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Hairlosssucks

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Can low e2(Estradiol) be causing these problems. Since I’m in the U.K. the test for it is not possible under the nhs. But my low e2 could be due to low t?
 

Satellite

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I have low Total T and low shbg and normal range free T..I would think in my case beta sitosterol would be counter intuitive in my case..estradiol is low probably due to low Total T because not much to aromatize

Hard to say until you increase testosterone. Shbg could just be low because you have no testosterone.

The raw forest strategy is three fold: supplement, produce, maximize. I use this strategy even if I use other products.

Supplement androgens, take something that tells the body to produce maximum androgens, and then maximize the usage.

If you supplemented with pine pollen (contains all four male sex hormones in bioavailabile form), take tongkat Ali to get the testis/hpta axis full force, then keep the androgens free using nettle or beta sitosterol, then you cover all bases and will see major improvement in masculinity.

I used this stack with great success. I’ve also used other stacks successfully, but always the same methodology.

For example,

Supplement: prohormones
Produce & Maximize: Thor’s hammer

Or

Supplement: prohormones
Produce: DS Activate
Maximize: DS Lean Xtreme

Or

Supplement: Pine pollen powder
Produce & Maximize: Thor’s hammer

Or

Supplement: any combo of idealabs andro, kuinone, Pansterone, progesterone, 6-keto etc
Produce & Maximize: Thor’s hammer

Or

Supplement: any combo of idealabs andro, kuinone, Pansterone, progesterone, 6-keto etc
Produce: tongkat Ali
Maximize: nettle root


Just play with it until you find the best combo
 

Satellite

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How much sodium D-aspartate do you take and how do you dose it? Also are you taking the supplements "Thor's hammer", "Driven Sports Activate" and "Lean Xtreme" and Sodium D-aspartate all at the same time?

I just posted another comment that gives examples of what I do, for better perspective.

But yeah what I meant was I buy Thor’s hammer and toss the container with the sodium d-aspartate and vit d3 in it - there are two separate containers making it a combo pack because you aren’t supposed to take the sodium d-aspartate daily, you cycle it.

You’re supposed to take 1, 3g serving in the morning when you wake up but cycle it. However, I take a half scoop twice a day or three-fourths once to avoid the high doses and it still works great. When I eat lots of cholesterol my libido gets insane too.

So I toss the one and use the other which contains the anti estrogens/cortisol and androgen receptor booster and pair it with another test booster product like tongkat Ali or pine pollen powder or whatever else may work best for me.

I will say pine pollen on its own is good, but with the anti estrogens/cortisol and androgen receptor booster I get steroid like effects. I can tell I’m absorbing and utilizing the androgens way more by my physique and personality. It’s like the steroids are on steroids!
 

Satellite

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Messages
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Can low e2(Estradiol) be causing these problems. Since I’m in the U.K. the test for it is not possible under the nhs. But my low e2 could be due to low t?

Don’t take this the wrong way, but I think this is the fundamental problem why people can’t fix their problems on this forum.

They focus on the wrong things.

It isn’t one thing causing your problem. The body is a complex environment- look up complexity science, everything is interacting with everything else competing for resources that are scarce.

Low E2 may be a result of low T, but what if you raise T and keep E2 low? Are your symptoms the same?

You have a systemic issue not an E2 issue- this is the heart of Peat’s work. He gives you all the free articles you need to learn how the systems should operate.

Go high to low. Your hormone system is not working properly. Why? Is it broken or maybe just too much progesterone?

How can you shift your body towards androgen dominance?

What I do is experiment. So supplement with pine pollen or 4 andro, since both have androgens that aromatize, and see what happens.

In the end, I realized that testosterone is good for muscle, healing etc. but dopamine is what gets me sexual and a deep voice.

Test increases dopamine, but dopamine does everything test does for me too, except build big muscles.

So unfortunately your question cannot be answered in the manner you’d like. You must read the articles and understand the systems so you understand what is happening when you experiment.
 

Spondive

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Oct 13, 2014
Messages
357
Hard to say until you increase testosterone. Shbg could just be low because you have no testosterone.

The raw forest strategy is three fold: supplement, produce, maximize. I use this strategy even if I use other products.

Supplement androgens, take something that tells the body to produce maximum androgens, and then maximize the usage.

If you supplemented with pine pollen (contains all four male sex hormones in bioavailabile form), take tongkat Ali to get the testis/hpta axis full force, then keep the androgens free using nettle or beta sitosterol, then you cover all bases and will see major improvement in masculinity.

I used this stack with great success. I’ve also used other stacks successfully, but always the same methodology.

For example,

Supplement: prohormones
Produce & Maximize: Thor’s hammer

Or

Supplement: prohormones
Produce: DS Activate
Maximize: DS Lean Xtreme

Or

Supplement: Pine pollen powder
Produce & Maximize: Thor’s hammer

Or

Supplement: any combo of idealabs andro, kuinone, Pansterone, progesterone, 6-keto etc
Produce & Maximize: Thor’s hammer

Or

Supplement: any combo of idealabs andro, kuinone, Pansterone, progesterone, 6-keto etc
Produce: tongkat Ali
Maximize: nettle root


Just play with it until you find the best combo
Thanks I will experiment as always
 

bennyha

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Jan 30, 2014
Messages
87
I have just started the journey so not much yet which is why I say, my findings aren't finalized yet. But I'm feeling confident at this point. Because I've got about a couple months worth of detailed data (I am tracking 100+ parameters from macros to micros to # hrs sleep and more) that have led me to this point. At this point, now I just need to get further tracking under my belt to go from 90-95% confidence of my strategy to 100%. Obviously once I start losing significant weight like 20+ lb is when my confidence will rise to 100%.

Actually, what you should aim for, rather than weight loss, is a 98.6F+ waking temp and a 85 bpm waking pulse. Both of these Ray has talked about, of people who have ideal/optimal metabolism. My findings have shown that if I can accomplish both, 9 times out of 10, weight loss is automatically the result. And you can typically only achieve a high waking temp and high waking pulse via high caloric (carb) intake. So there are basically two ways to lose weight. One: High metabolism (98.6F and 85 BPM waking temps and pulses) OR severely slash calories. I choose the former. I used to slash calories, I'm done doing that. Broda barnes says that 97.8-98.2F waking temp is sufficient to not be classified hypothyroid, but I disagree. Anything less than 98.6F waking temp is hypothyroid. Period. I feel like **** with less than 98.6F, and like superman when waking temp is >= 98.6F (and pulse 85+).

I would google Billy Craig. He is well known for his experiments of losing weight and being unable to gain weight by eating 6,000 calories a day every day. I remember him being popular 4-5 years ago with his theory and it was all over the internets
 

Cirion

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I would google Billy Craig. He is well known for his experiments of losing weight and being unable to gain weight by eating 6,000 calories a day every day. I remember him being popular 4-5 years ago with his theory and it was all over the internets

Yup, he's one of my inspirations. Also I recently found out optimizing proteins really seems to be key. I spent the last couple weeks really investigating, and long story short I found this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F3J4HWS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is a truly one of a kind amino acid supplement that has all essential amino acids (complete protein) EXCEPT tryptophan, histidine, cystine, and methionine - making it perfect for a protein supplement that is completely free of the anti-metabolic acids. Just ordered it and planning to give it a go. I had been looking for a couple weeks on how I can alleviate my tryptophan/methionine etc load without going full vegan (Which I did try briefly, which I DID see some potent benefits to--alleviation of brain fog, energy increase, motivation increase, etc..., but I eventually also got protein deficiency symptoms. This is what led me down this path to realize this is gonna be key to recovery--best of all worlds, the benefits of "protein depletion" (vegan) but without the protein deficiency symptoms).

Excited to see how this works for me.
 

bennyha

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Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Messages
87
Yup, he's one of my inspirations. Also I recently found out optimizing proteins really seems to be key. I spent the last couple weeks really investigating, and long story short I found this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F3J4HWS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is a truly one of a kind amino acid supplement that has all essential amino acids (complete protein) EXCEPT tryptophan, histidine, cystine, and methionine - making it perfect for a protein supplement that is completely free of the anti-metabolic acids. Just ordered it and planning to give it a go. I had been looking for a couple weeks on how I can alleviate my tryptophan/methionine etc load without going full vegan (Which I did try briefly, which I DID see some potent benefits to--alleviation of brain fog, energy increase, motivation increase, etc..., but I eventually also got protein deficiency symptoms. This is what led me down this path to realize this is gonna be key to recovery--best of all worlds, the benefits of "protein depletion" (vegan) but without the protein deficiency symptoms).

Excited to see how this works for me.

Nice man! I think I’ve heard recently about that same product and people being excited about it but I didn’t look too far into it.

Good luck on the high cal experiment. Also, I know Rusty Moore has a similar program of using low fats and high carb approach is you google that as well. Sounds like people are having good success with that as well. Interested to see how this all works for you. We are all so different so what works for me might not work for you and vice versa, but I always love reading about all methods and how they work for certain people. I’m rarely here, but I love stopping by once a month or so and reading the popular threads and seeing what people are trying or discovering
 

Satellite

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Jun 22, 2018
Messages
159

Satellite

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Joined
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Messages
159
Yup, he's one of my inspirations. Also I recently found out optimizing proteins really seems to be key. I spent the last couple weeks really investigating, and long story short I found this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F3J4HWS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is a truly one of a kind amino acid supplement that has all essential amino acids (complete protein) EXCEPT tryptophan, histidine, cystine, and methionine - making it perfect for a protein supplement that is completely free of the anti-metabolic acids. Just ordered it and planning to give it a go. I had been looking for a couple weeks on how I can alleviate my tryptophan/methionine etc load without going full vegan (Which I did try briefly, which I DID see some potent benefits to--alleviation of brain fog, energy increase, motivation increase, etc..., but I eventually also got protein deficiency symptoms. This is what led me down this path to realize this is gonna be key to recovery--best of all worlds, the benefits of "protein depletion" (vegan) but without the protein deficiency symptoms).

Excited to see how this works for me.

Me too actually, I hope it goes well!

It’s funny seeing this, because the best physique I’ve ever had was not from testosterone or any steroids.

It was from uncoupling my proteins/metabolism. Ironically, I looked like I was on steroids though lol. I wasn’t huge, just ripped with “that look.” Full muscle bellies and boulder shoulders, it was awesome!

I’ve never been able to recreate that uncoupling, even with the same stack. Very disappointing.

Anyway I think you’re on to something.

What’s also interesting is that amino supplement. I have to try it.

The thing I notice in fitness is that getting big and muscular seems to work better with a poor metabolism.

Almost like everything slows down so it accumulates better, which would explain why those four aminos comprise a complete protein.

Of course I would prefer to build muscle another way, such as uncoupling proteins so they fold right, but it’s hard to do!
 

olive

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Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
555
Yup, he's one of my inspirations. Also I recently found out optimizing proteins really seems to be key. I spent the last couple weeks really investigating, and long story short I found this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F3J4HWS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is a truly one of a kind amino acid supplement that has all essential amino acids (complete protein) EXCEPT tryptophan, histidine, cystine, and methionine - making it perfect for a protein supplement that is completely free of the anti-metabolic acids. Just ordered it and planning to give it a go. I had been looking for a couple weeks on how I can alleviate my tryptophan/methionine etc load without going full vegan (Which I did try briefly, which I DID see some potent benefits to--alleviation of brain fog, energy increase, motivation increase, etc..., but I eventually also got protein deficiency symptoms. This is what led me down this path to realize this is gonna be key to recovery--best of all worlds, the benefits of "protein depletion" (vegan) but without the protein deficiency symptoms).

Excited to see how this works for me.
Some methionine is needed for liver health. FWIW.
 

Cirion

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Sep 1, 2017
Messages
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Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Me too actually, I hope it goes well!

It’s funny seeing this, because the best physique I’ve ever had was not from testosterone or any steroids.

It was from uncoupling my proteins/metabolism. Ironically, I looked like I was on steroids though lol. I wasn’t huge, just ripped with “that look.” Full muscle bellies and boulder shoulders, it was awesome!

I’ve never been able to recreate that uncoupling, even with the same stack. Very disappointing.

Anyway I think you’re on to something.

Almost like everything slows down so it accumulates better, which would explain why those four aminos comprise a complete protein.

Of course I would prefer to build muscle another way, such as uncoupling proteins so they fold right, but it’s hard to do!

Interesting. I take it you have experience with testosterone and roids then? Now I am even more excited to try this... What was the stack you used? And why did it stop working?

The thing I notice in fitness is that getting big and muscular seems to work better with a poor metabolism.

What makes you say that? Those four aminos certainly make gaining weight easier, but the weight you gain is gonna be more fat than muscle, gaining weight =/= getting more healthy / androgenic / more muscular. Gaining weight would certainly be harder without them, but that's not a bad thing, since what you want to gain is lean mass, which can't be gained at a fast rate (no more than a few lb a year or something, especially if you're not a novice) unless you're also on roids. I really believe optimal health and androgens is best for increasing the so-called P-ratio (ratio of muscle to fat weight gained). I guess increased mass can make you stronger, as there is some evidence to suggest that, even if its fat, but in the long run you're shooting yourself in the foot by being a reservoir of estrogen from all the fat mass. Top powerlifters are frequently super obese, and have all sorts of health problems, so they got really strong, but at the cost of trashing their health.

A poor metabolism absolutely makes getting big and stronger harder and less effective. I always used to stall when I started to push too hard and tank my thyroid and my best gains came when I was in my best health. At my peak health I added 60 lbs to my bench in one month, and later completely stalled as my health degraded.
 
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Hairlosssucks

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Thank you for the clarification, I am not a technical expert, so that’s interesting to know.

What I really meant though was not to confuse the two. Plain aspartic acid does not work, only the sodium d-aspartate works. Quite well really. Just watch out for signs of neurotoxicity if using high doses.

Unfortunately, the study the doctor referenced used 3g on an empty stomach in the morning.

I usually use half scoops twice a day if possible.

But that’s also why I suggested purchasing it but only using the AI powder. I did that replacing it with tongkat Ali and pine pollen and it works really well too.

My favorite though is the Thor’s hammer with driven sports activate and lean xtreme. Those three turn me into a man freak with great energy and memory too. The only thing better is 4 andro for me, but 4 andro is hard to do long term because I get too muscular! Being big is exhausting.

Is sodium d-aspartate a pro hormone?. I would rather not mess with my hormones atm
 

Frankdee20

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You probably won’t as aspartic acid is what is used by mainstream as it is cheaper.

Haidut said aspartic acid is neurotoxic in high doses, so take it slow at first if you decide to try it. I do split doses sometimes and do 2 days on 1 off.

What I have done, albeit not as successfully, is use Thor’s hammer without the sodium d- aspartate and just substitute something else like pure tongkat Ali and raw pine pollen to get the testis going. It worked really well too, but takes longer to take full effect.

If you are just looking for an androgen & dopamine boost, the driven sports stack is a beauty, works like a charm. Or you could add the Thor’s hammer AI powder. I like doing that because it’s viagra-like and keeps me very sexual for the ladies. I think they’ll agree it’s more masculine than big muscles too

Nice, is sodium aspartate also toxic as the acid ?
 
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Hairlosssucks

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But if a weird one but is the cause of a dry glans low estradiol or high estradiol?
 

Satellite

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Interesting. I take it you have experience with testosterone and roids then? Now I am even more excited to try this... What was the stack you used? And why did it stop working?



What makes you say that? Those four aminos certainly make gaining weight easier, but the weight you gain is gonna be more fat than muscle, gaining weight =/= getting more healthy / androgenic / more muscular. Gaining weight would certainly be harder without them, but that's not a bad thing, since what you want to gain is lean mass, which can't be gained at a fast rate (no more than a few lb a year or something, especially if you're not a novice) unless you're also on roids. I really believe optimal health and androgens is best for increasing the so-called P-ratio (ratio of muscle to fat weight gained). I guess increased mass can make you stronger, as there is some evidence to suggest that, even if its fat, but in the long run you're shooting yourself in the foot by being a reservoir of estrogen from all the fat mass. Top powerlifters are frequently super obese, and have all sorts of health problems, so they got really strong, but at the cost of trashing their health.

Yes, I have never used anything illegal.
My strategy is to use the milder prohormones, specifically the andros, like 4 Andro and 1 Andro, etc.
They convert to testosterone well and since they are mild, they are less liver toxic and cause no side effects.

However, the uncoupling that I was speaking of did not come from testosterone.
Specifically, I was taking two supplements.
Lean Xtreme by Driven Sports and tt-33 by iForce.
In short, LX by DS is an anti-cortisol and thyroid boosting supplement for body re-composition and tt-33 was the thyroid hormone T2 with a mega dose of B12.

I ran it for 8 weeks and I had the best physique ever, lean and chiseled.
I stopped taking it and tried to run it again, maybe a year later, and it did not give the same result.
Perhaps my thyroid or hormonal system changed for worse.
I cannot say exactly, but since then I have been seeking for uncouplers.
Proteins are the building blocks of the body, and I think many diseases are probably due to the body not being able to build/fold proteins properly anymore.
If you cannot build new proteins anymore, you cannot grow or even replace the old/bad ones.
Which is a dying state.

For this reason, I think that steroids are helpful, because they improve protein synthesis.
Testosterone does this, but it is not very metabolic, it does not get me super lean.
It does lean me out, but I tend to think it is because I am not eating enough, so it uses my existing fat stores to grow.
The problem here though, is that I do not what to get too big.
I try to keep my weight around 200 while increasing strength. etc.

A poor metabolism absolutely makes getting big and stronger harder and less effective. I always used to stall when I started to push too hard and tank my thyroid and my best gains came when I was in my best health. At my peak health I added 60 lbs to my bench in one month, and later completely stalled as my health degraded.

I tend to think that gaining lean muscle is so hard, because it is unnatural.
Gaining lean muscle is a bodybuilding/physique concept, not necessarily one inherent to the nature of homo sapiens.
It is a manipulation of the natural order.

After purchasing a bodybuilding program from Kelly Baggett, I learned that the metabolism is akin to a car engine.
An efficient auto engine actually burns gas faster.
The same is with the body's metabolism, a faster, efficient metabolism burns energy faster, evidenced by stimulants, etc.
Which is not necessarily ideal.

The most muscular athletes on the planet are not football players, rugby players, combat athletes, sprinters, etc.
They are Sumo wrestlers, whose sport is pretty much eating to get huge and then wrestling.
They do not use roids either, having a full stomach and being well-fed is very anabolic in itself.
They have higher percentages of fat too, but that is our evidence right there.
When the metabolism slows down, it retains energy, allowing for growth.
When you are well-fed and have plenty of energy, the body is not concerned with survival, enabling it to grow.

Gaining lean muscle is possible, but it is still a matter of survival.
Growth does not occur as fast though, as you stated.
But the growth that does occur is going to be survival based.
As in you are lifting weights and applying changes to the body.
Well the body is going to find a way to grow, because if it does not find a way to overcome the stress, it will die.

So stress is not a bad thing, stress that you cannot recover from is a bad thing.
Recovery is the most important aspect of everything biologically related.
After all, we are complex organisms in a complex environment with limited resources.
Everything is competing for those resources all the time.

I notice that powerlifters by-and-large have a very intense mentality.
As in the sport itself seems to attract people who seek to push and punish themselves to the extreme.
They tend to have many injuries too, because they are not super focused on balancing the stress:recovery ratio.
It is just all out bomb blitzing all the time.
The same with many bodybuilders, they just destroy their muscles every workout.

The take away message here, IMHO, is that there is no such thing as too much stress, or overtraining.
Only under eating and not enough recovery.
Theoretically, the human nervous system has no limits as it is our primary survival system.
Potentially, one could squat 5000 lbs etc.
We just do not know how to do that biologically yet.

At the same time, I do agree with you that gaining lean muscle and maintaining a properly working metabolism is the best approach.
I just tend to think that stress causing activity that release stress hormones is not bad, unless you cannot recover from it.
The more stress you recover from, the higher your capacity to recover from increasing amounts of stress gets.
It is a give and take relationship.
Completely avoiding stress IMHO is not a good strategy, because the end result is that it actually weakens you.
Just my 2c.
 

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