How To Follow RP With No Eggs, Dairy, Liver, Gelatin?

[Zpol]

My concept of good health and healing depends on avoiding toxic foods, supp's, etc, and eating nutrient dense foods.
And I understand why diet (and lifestyle) modifications are better than supplements and medications, as well as why these foods increase cellular respiration and balance hormones and neurotransmitters, but for those of us who are already sick and can't eat the foods that are nutrient dense what do we do? what do we eat to heal?

I know there are others similar to me who...
Gluten, grains, dairy (incl butter), Eggs = systemic pain, brain fog, rashes, and/or digestive issues (basic autoimmune flare ups)
liver, veggie water = heartburn and GERD (...due to minerals??)
Gelatin, bone broth = shingles flare ups, due to high arginine to lysine ratio
vit. C, asprin = gastritis

I already take T3 and T4, benfotiamine, d chiro and myo inositol, progest-e, vitex, vit. e, d, and k2.

Anyone know?

 

[Diokine]

Are you responding well to the thyroid supplement? If you are getting heartburn from veggie waters, I would suggest more salt. I've never met anyone that can't tolerate steeped greens broth and salt.

Is there anything that is appealing to you, that you want to eat?

 

[Zpol]

Are you responding well to the thyroid supplement?

I take levothyroxine - 50 MCG 6x per wk & liothyroxine - 5 MCG daily
And no, I am not responding well. Having a hard time finding a sweet spot. My blood test results are all over the place. Natural dessicated thyroid brings me too low, and the synthetics vary. My temps are pretty steady at 97.6 F to 98 F and pulses 80bpm to 100bpm, this has not changed much no matter what my blood tests read. But none the less, I should probably get back to the doc and get help straightening out this issue.
Do know if the natural dessicated is better than a blend of T3 T4 synthetics?

If you are getting heartburn from veggie waters, I would suggest more salt. I've never met anyone that can't tolerate steeped greens broth and salt.

I will try more salt. It has something to do with the high minerals and poor digestion. I get the same thing with herbal tea, green smoothies, and fresh green juices; these things I do not consume anymore though.

Is there anything that is appealing to you, that you want to eat?

Yes, I do have an appetite, not a big one though. The things I crave are cheese, milk, ice cream, eggs, white rice, and potatoes ... all of which cause flare ups unfortunately. I do also crave OJ so I'll start adding in more of that. I don't really enjoy meat but it's my only protein source.

I have a severe motility issue, so I think I'm going to do zero fiber; veg broth (with more salt as you recommend), strained fruit juice, and meat.

Thank you @Diokine for your reply!!

 

[jitsmonkey]

thyroid supplementation requires ample fuel not only in your mouth but into the cells to be effective
from your description it doesn't sound like either are happening.

Ray has spoken about people who cannot get proper nutrients because of their digestion being so poor
and utilizing fresh potato juice for a period of time.

I'm sure you can track that down
in the search function of this forum or www.L-I-G-H-T.com

 

[Zpol]

thyroid supplementation requires ample fuel not only in your mouth but into the cells to be effective
from your description it doesn't sound like either are happening.

True, neither of these are happening.

Ray has spoken about people who cannot get proper nutrients because of their digestion being so poor
and utilizing fresh potato juice for a period of time.

I'm sure you can track that down
in the search function of this forum or www.L-I-G-H-T.com

Wow, LIGHT.com is awesome! It did give me some interesting results. Nothing conclusive though. In one recording RP mentions how he's seen people dying of mysterious illness "pop" out of their illness after a couple meals of this potato juice and then in the same recording he agrees with the host that potatoes are highly allergenic and should not be consumed if the person has an allergy. To find out if they have an allergy he says to eliminate them for a week and see if health improves. So, an extreme elimination diet is about where I'm at right now.

Thanks!

 

[jitsmonkey]

True, neither of these are happening.



Wow, LIGHT.com is awesome! It did give me some interesting results. Nothing conclusive though. In one recording RP mentions how he's seen people dying of mysterious illness "pop" out of their illness after a couple meals of this potato juice and then in the same recording he agrees with the host that potatoes are highly allergenic and should not be consumed if the person has an allergy. To find out if they have an allergy he says to eliminate them for a week and see if health improves. So, an extreme elimination diet is about where I'm at right now.

Thanks!

The most important thing you said is "nothing conclusive though"
you won't find much that's conclusive
Ray gives you a terrific amount of good information to work with.... "the clay" if you will
but at the end of the day its you testing, trying, thinking, being patient enough to learn
glad that was helpful for you.

Ray's seeming "contradiction" is simple to understand
things are helpful except when they're not. Potato isn't magic nor is thyroid nor anything else.
keep going, keep asking, keep thinking, you'll get there.

 

[Zpol]

things are helpful except when they're not. Potato isn't magic nor is thyroid nor anything else.
keep going, keep asking, keep thinking, you'll get there.

Thank you. Yes, I hope all these bits of info will result in something useful for me, and people like me.
I'm trying to gather as much info as I can, and I reserve time intermittently to sit and think about it, with the ultimate goal of understanding what exactly I must do or try to do.
I just hope i'm smart enough to put all the pieces together.

 

[jitsmonkey]

your level of patience and attention to detail will by far trump your "smart"
just keep asking questions and keep studying your responses to the things you observe/experience

 

[kiran]

You should google for SIBO and perhaps try some antibiotics.

Have you tried making cottage cheese? Its not hard but it does take time.
Have you tried white rice with some butter?

 

[Zpol]

You should google for SIBO and perhaps try some antibiotics.

Have you tried making cottage cheese? Its not hard but it does take time.
Have you tried white rice with some butter?

I tried Xifaxan but it didn't help. It has to be paired with Neomycin for SIBO-C, and after that Erythromycin for life. My doctor refuses to prescribe the Neomycin since it has dangerous side effects. Plus, being on antibiotics long term can cause cancer.

I cannot tolerate cheese of any kind or rice of any kind, I end up in severe pain that sets in about 4 hrs after ingestion (flesh pain, feels like bruises all over). And as of 2 weeks ago, I can no longer tolerate even small amounts of butter.
Thanks for the suggestions though!

your level of patience and attention to detail will by far trump your "smart"
just keep asking questions and keep studying your responses to the things you observe/experience

Thank you @jitsmonkey! This statement makes me feel very hopeful!
I love this forum; it really shifts my perspective.

 

[kiran]

I tried Xifaxan but it didn't help. It has to be paired with Neomycin for SIBO-C, and after that Erythromycin for life. My doctor refuses to prescribe the Neomycin since it has dangerous side effects. Plus, being on antibiotics long term can cause cancer.

And as of 2 weeks ago, I can no longer tolerate even small amounts of butter.

Have you tried taking a tsp of odorless coconut oil with each meal?
Are you willing to experiment with antibiotics on your own?

 

[Birdie]

Have you tried taking a tsp of odorless coconut oil with each meal?
Are you willing to experiment with antibiotics on your own?

Oh, great. I just put "antibiotics" into the search box and came up with 3 comments, all from this thread.
Nothing else. Kiran, would you suggest a trial protocol or point to one?

I can't find my notes from RP or would put em here... I remember he's said low dose and to use the old ones like penicillin or the erythromycins.
Amounts? I usually see 100mg but have seen him suggest just 30. Twice a day. Short periods...

Maybe putting "penicillin" or "minocycline" in the search would be better...

 

[charlie]

Oh, great. I just put "antibiotics" into the search box and came up with 3 comments, all from this thread.

You need to uncheck "search this thread only".

Search Results for Query: antibiotics | Ray Peat Forum

 

[Birdie]

Putting in penicillin got one hit, my comment above... It is penicillin I'm using now, for me and husband...
Sure would like to see some other people's experiences.

You need to uncheck "search this thread only".

Search Results for Query: antibiotics | Ray Peat Forum

I just headed over to the forum section that includes antibiotics and searching there worked.
Trying to help my husband for a few weeks now. My brain is kinda numb, so didn't see that. Thanks charlie.

 

[charlie]

Thanks charlie.

Search Results for Query: penicillin | Ray Peat Forum

 

[kiran]

Oh, great. I just put "antibiotics" into the search box and came up with 3 comments, all from this thread.
Nothing else. Kiran, would you suggest a trial protocol or point to one?

"Butter is protective with starch, and it has a mild antiseptic effect; I often use a little penicillin when I think a food has disturbed my intestinal flora. Different types of antibiotic can be combined or alternated, and very small doses can be helpful for digestive problems. The types I have used most often are penicillin VK, tetracycline, and erythromycin."

As for a protocol, i just use each for as long as i can without side effects, which is about 3 days each at the moment, before giving it a few days off. Not gotten the dosages right fully just yet.

 

[Zpol]

Have you tried taking a tsp of odorless coconut oil with each meal?
Are you willing to experiment with antibiotics on your own?

I use so much coconut oil in cooking that eat it straight up. Do think eating it straight up will have a different effect?

As for a protocol, i just use each for as long as i can without side effects, which is about 3 days each at the moment, before giving it a few days off. Not gotten the dosages right fully just yet.

I am willing to use antibiotics on my own but I'm concerned about developing a diminishing response to them, or worse, developing antibiotic resistance.
Conventional medicine approach to SIBO is using low dose erythromycin long term (after the initial 10 day double ABX treatment) but I haven't really researched the long term effects of this particular antibiotic. It is interesting that RP has mentioned erythromycin in particular as it has been shown to be effective for enhancing motility even in conventional SIBO treatment protocols, although, it is known to have a diminishing response and so not a long term solution anyway. (sorry I cannot find the reference for this, I used to own a book by Dr. Pimentel, I probably read about this there)

Herbal therapy is just as effective by the way...

Herbal Therapy Is Equivalent to Rifaximin for the Treatment of Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth

The problem both these methods are that they are not cures, the overgrowth infections keep coming back.
More research is being done to figure out why.

 

[kiran]

I use so much coconut oil in cooking that eat it straight up. Do think eating it straight up will have a different effect?

Huh. What sort is it?
If you're eating that much coconut oil, perhaps youre dealing with an irritated gut along with SIBO?
(you might also want to try reducing the coconut oil. it can be an irritant all by itself.)

RP Email Advice Comment: Lidocaine For Bowel Complaints

 

[Zpol]

Huh. What sort is it?
If you're eating that much coconut oil, perhaps youre dealing with an irritated gut along with SIBO?
(you might also want to try reducing the coconut oil. it can be an irritant all by itself.)

I've been using different store bought kinds (organic), always refined as the unrefined makes me gag (I used to love it, then one day hated it).
I think I should switch to the Tropical Traditions one exclusively, it's better quality than store brands I think.
I try to keep the amount balanced with the amounts of protein and carbs I'm eating.

Never read that about Lidocaine before, interesting!

 

[Velve921]

I use so much coconut oil in cooking that eat it straight up. Do think eating it straight up will have a different effect?



I am willing to use antibiotics on my own but I'm concerned about developing a diminishing response to them, or worse, developing antibiotic resistance.
Conventional medicine approach to SIBO is using low dose erythromycin long term (after the initial 10 day double ABX treatment) but I haven't really researched the long term effects of this particular antibiotic. It is interesting that RP has mentioned erythromycin in particular as it has been shown to be effective for enhancing motility even in conventional SIBO treatment protocols, although, it is known to have a diminishing response and so not a long term solution anyway. (sorry I cannot find the reference for this, I used to own a book by Dr. Pimentel, I probably read about this there)

Herbal therapy is just as effective by the way...

Herbal Therapy Is Equivalent to Rifaximin for the Treatment of Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth

The problem both these methods are that they are not cures, the overgrowth infections keep coming back.
More research is being done to figure out why.

Have you tried the raw carrot salad, boiled mushrooms or boiled bamboo shoots?

Mushrooms gave me similar symptoms as tetracycline antibiotics; bamboo and carrot cleans up quite well.

If you are not into Anti-Biotics these 3 digestive could be worth investigating.