How Crucial Is Getting Enough Calories? How Destructive Is Inadequate Calories?

[Constatine]

Low calories over an extended period of time is very bad for your health. When in a catabolic state for a long time your organs break down (especially intestines) leading to a variety of problems. A very high protein intake can offset this a bit but that creates it's own set of problems. If you are overweight you might be protected from some of the negative effects but I still wouldn't mess around with it.

 

[Luckytype]

This is accurate. All depends on thyroid. The more hypo you are, the more often you have to eat to avoid stress.

Is stress in a situation like this considered strictly lowered blood sugar?

 

[Tarmander]

Is stress in a situation like this considered strictly lowered blood sugar?

Probably not strictly. If you go by Peat's comments on sprinting, then it seems that the presence of glycogen in muscles and liver that is the main determiner if something is stressful or not. For example, you can have higher blood sugar while running on cortisol and adrenaline, and it is the definition of stress. Hypothyroid people have trouble storing glycogen as well...

 

[thisoldtown1978]

adequate calories are by far by far the most important thing for me. i'm a totally different person if i don't get enough food. i need around 4000 to function normally and dropping even to 2500 (which is more than what many people get, which makes me wonder how most people even function) makes me stressed out, sluggish, tired, etc all day

Can you outline how you reach your 4000? :)

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Low calories over an extended period of time is very bad for your health. When in a catabolic state for a long time your organs break down (especially intestines) leading to a variety of problems. A very high protein intake can offset this a bit but that creates it's own set of problems. If you are overweight you might be protected from some of the negative effects but I still wouldn't mess around with it.

Interesting about the organs breaking down. I feel my digestion is permanently damaged from years of high stress low carb.

Any ideas on how to rebuild and repair?

 

[Constatine]

Interesting about the organs breaking down. I feel my digestion is permanently damaged from years of high stress low carb.

Any ideas on how to rebuild and repair?

Eating enough calories and a lot of protein. Gelatin like protein can be useful but some people have problems with gelatin. Colostrum is a high quality protein with growth factors but you would need to take a lot for it to make a difference. Exercise helps the gut heal under some conditions as well. But refeeding with plenty of protein and nutrients is the main component.

 

[lampofred]

Can you outline how you reach your 4000? :)

I drink whole milk instead of low fat milk and I also eat a lot of low fat foods that aren't "strictly Peaty." I eat bread, rice, lean chicken and turkey for example (making sure I drink coffee at the same time to minimize iron absorption). Basically, I view the recommended daily 2 quarts of milk, 1 quart of orange as a supplement to my regular 2-3 meals a day, not as a substitute.

By freely eating starch and not avoiding high fat (as long as the fat is mostly saturated) it's pretty easy to get to 4000 calories.

 

[kreeese]

peat talks about doing great on 50% fat mostly saturated..Which is what I do...I eat alot of sugar and fat all Peat foods without blinking Im at 3300 a day...

 

[Elize]

Reaching 3000 is something I continually struggle with. I've read posts by members saying they reach this by drinking skimmed milk with oranges and melon or whatever. I seem to be eating all day long and never get near 3000. Milk exacerbates my geographic tongue, so my only healthy/Peat options are fruit and potatoes, but starch gives me digestive problems and fruit quality is atrocious. Between a rock and a hard place.[/QUOTE

I'm doing much better GI wise since removing High Fodmap foods and going to the low Fodmap and Peat diet

 

[nbznj]

I'd definitely eat more fat rather than stick to super low fat and high starch which may not make me feel optimal AND would bring me too low in calories.

Most of my fats come from avocado, coconut, cocoa, MCT oil when I workout and some animal fats. I think 1g/kg or .5g/lb is roughly what people should do. Yesterday I tried sheep milk at Whole Foods, it was great although I won't buy more than one a week, it's so pricey.

Just like with drug intake that is often calculated in weight per square meter, I believe grams per pound of bodyweight is often a better measure than an absolute number based on someone else's plan. Ray Peat has 50-70g of fats a day and he is 150lbs ish? I'm 1.5x heavier, so it makes sense to me to eat that much more fat, and proteins, and carbohydrates.

Not so related to the current discussion, I've read a few days ago how David Katz showed that oats improve artery health when eating a high fat meal. I've seen better cholesterol ratios and better general health (and hair health too) when eating more oats in my diet. It took me a while to put 2 and 2 together. I think oats are great overall and could work great in a higher fat diet. Far more pros than cons compared to other common starches like wheat or rice

Vitamin E Helps Arteries Even After a High-Fat Meal

 

[Kunder]

Considering how many people do well on fairly high calories, I find it interesting that Peat seems to stick to the old notion that going over a certain fine line results in automatic weight gain.

He mentions it quite frequently, mostly when talking about a particular otherwise healthy food (whole milk, grape juice etc) when he adds a caution about it being too caloric thus potentially leading to fat gain.

 

[theLaw]

peat talks about doing great on 50% fat mostly saturated..Which is what I do...I eat alot of sugar and fat all Peat foods without blinking Im at 3300 a day...

Actually, Peat tried higher fat (above 1/3 calories) and found that lower/moderate fat was better for him, if memory serves.

Fat intake above 1/3 appears to be an outlier; it's possible, but probably not best for most people as it keeps you burning fat instead of sugar.

 

[theLaw]

Considering how many people do well on fairly highly calories, I find it interesting that Peat seems to stick to the old notion that going over a certain fine line results in automatic weight gain.

He mentions it quite frequently, mostly when talking about a particular otherwise healthy food (whole milk, grape juice etc) when he adds a caution about it being too caloric thus potentially leading to fat gain.

Where does he mention weight gain from grape juice?

Heard him say that about whole milk, but never fruit juices.

 

[Kunder]

Where does he mention weight gain from grape juice?

Heard him say that about whole milk, but never fruit juices.

In his response to the question what he thinks about grape juice.

And I’m pretty sure I’ve heard him say it more than a few times, always in reference to either fat or sugar content.

 

[raypeatclips]

Where does he mention weight gain from grape juice?

Heard him say that about whole milk, but never fruit juices.

He says grape juice is good but quite calorific, so people should be aware of if. Not that it necessarily causes weight gain.

 

[nbznj]

don't forget about satiation. You get satiated rather easily from grapes, not from grape juice. There's also the issue with pasteurized juices, and the preservatives the industry may use to guarantee a long shelf life.

I'm wondering if Ray Peat would rather go for low fat calories a bit too low, or higher fats sufficient calories. Both providing solid nutrition. That's pretty much the only topic that is up in the air in my personal nutrition approach.

 

[Kunder]

He says grape juice is good but quite calorific, so people should be aware of if. Not that it necessarily causes weight gain.

What then?

 

[raypeatclips]

What then?

Pardon?

 

[Kunder]

What is he cautioning about with respect to it being calorific if not weight gain?

 

[CarbAppreciator]

don't forget about satiation. You get satiated rather easily from grapes, not from grape juice. There's also the issue with pasteurized juices, and the preservatives the industry may use to guarantee a long shelf life.

I'm wondering if Ray Peat would rather go for low fat calories a bit too low, or higher fats sufficient calories. Both providing solid nutrition. That's pretty much the only topic that is up in the air in my personal nutrition approach.

Good point about the juice, fiber is very satiating.
At times, Peat has suggested 1/3 of cals from each macro is optimal, then lately he switched to a lower fat regime. Fats are pretty indispensable in terms of calorie content, but they are very satiating, that's why i like his advice of eating your fats at night so you stay hungry during the day.