How Crucial Is Getting Enough Calories? How Destructive Is Inadequate Calories?

[theLaw]

In his response to the question what he thinks about grape juice.

And I’m pretty sure I’ve heard him say it more than a few times, always in reference to either fat or sugar content.

So just circular logic = you just want to argue. My mistake.

 

[tara]

Also, constant hunger is a stress. It sounds simplistic, but some people try to blame other issues for their hunger instead of eating more fat/carb/protein.

Something we agree about. :)

Even if the components of the diet were ideal - digestibility, vitamins, minerals, ratios etc. - how destructive is, say, getting 2000 calories when your body needs 3000?

Depends a lot on context and duration. If you need 3000 and you get 2000 there's a deficit. If it's short term, and you are healthy, and you have some reserve, not problem, and you can catch up another day.
If it is long term, the body will have to adapt. Which combination of the available adaptations it will choose to make is hard to predict and harder to control, and I'd guess they may depend on your current health state, other current conditions, your history, genes, epigenetics.
Possible adaptations include at least (not necessarily in this order):
- reduce NEAT
- increase appetite and focus on food
- reduce fat-mass
- defer some body maintenance and healing,
- reduce lean mass that is energy-expensive to maintain (muscle and other organs, particularly those not obviously required for short-term survival - eg skin, thymus, muscles that are not being actively worked, ...)
- reduce base metabolism
- reduce reproductive system functions
- reduce other energy intensive functions (including brain-function).

dropping even to 2500 (which is more than what many people get, which makes me wonder how most people even function)

Remember most adult European men eat more than this even if they say they eat less (most people underestimate how much they eat). (Except in some parts of the world where they don't have access to enough food, or where people are on average of significantly smaller stature than Europeans.)

 

[Hairfedup]

but peat wrote that a tropical climate reduces metabolism (need less food to stay warm)

Then wrote coconut oil boosts metabolism.........

So it depends on where you live, and if you take things like coconut oil

"G. W. Crile and his wife found that the metabolic rate of people in Yucatan, where coconut is a staple food, averaged 25% higher than that of people in the United States. In a hot climate, the adaptive tendency is to have a lower metabolic rate, so it is clear that some factor is more than offsetting this expected effect of high environmental temperatures. "

Why are those living in tropical/sub-tropical climates i.e. Niger-Volta basin, Senegambia, etc so lean with visibly high metabolism?

 

[Kunder]

Why are those living in tropical/sub-tropical climates i.e. Niger-Volta basin, Senegambia, etc so lean with visibly high metabolism?

Street and jungle warfare, piracy, pilferage and non consensual sex are all very energy exhaustive activities. Plus I don’t think there’s enough food around in general to create constant caloric surpluses even without those daily errands.

But it is also entirely possible that it’s all BS including your national geographic-induced fantasy about the slim, fit and shiny black jungle people with spears and leopard skin underwear.

Obesity epidemic has emerged among Nigerians

 

[Luckytype]

Something we agree about. :)


Depends a lot on context and duration. If you need 3000 and you get 2000 there's a deficit. If it's short term, and you are healthy, and you have some reserve, not problem, and you can catch up another day.
If it is long term, the body will have to adapt. Which combination of the available adaptations it will choose to make is hard to predict and harder to control, and I'd guess they may depend on your current health state, other current conditions, your history, genes, epigenetics.
Possible adaptations include at least (not necessarily in this order):
- reduce NEAT
- increase appetite and focus on food
- reduce fat-mass
- defer some body maintenance and healing,
- reduce lean mass that is energy-expensive to maintain (muscle and other organs, particularly those not obviously required for short-term survival - eg skin, thymus, muscles that are not being actively worked, ...)
- reduce base metabolism
- reduce reproductive system functions
- reduce other energy intensive functions (including brain-function).


Remember most adult European men eat more than this even if they say they eat less (most people underestimate how much they eat). (Except in some parts of the world where they don't have access to enough food, or where people are on average of significantly smaller stature than Europeans.)

This is a great post. Its funny you mention NEAT. When i was healthy and higher energy with a general sense of "lets go get some ***t done today" I had a lot of energy. I was a mild fidgeter and usually had to adjust my position in chairs and lying down alot. I was lean, could eat anything, super interested in many things and wanted to be doing something.

Eventually as my metabolism took a dive my fidgeting went away(i didnt even notice) and slowly i became tolerant to positions so much that still I can literally sit in a simple chair for hours on end. I can lay without turning over and just read or watch netflix or type on the computer. There was a point where I would walk into work with a plan, sit down and forget what i was going to do. Its really amazing what the body will do to survive.

Just lately am i started to get my brains energy and excitement back and kill the fog. Hopefully this coming year my body will come back online.

Great post.

 

[DaveFoster]

Your metabolic rate decreases after a couple weeks of a hypocaloric intake.

Disadvantages include insulin resistance, but we're talking many months of undereating, and even then, some advantages exist in caloric restriction. Unfortunately, we have indifferent eaters who consume high PUFA in their diet, along with other toxins juxtaposed against the very particular "CRON" crowd who eat only nutritious foods and exercise regularly, so there's limited control in these epidemiological studies.

Serotonin suppresses the appetite, whereas thyroid hormone encourages the breakdown of serotonin and tends to increase the appetite, particularly for sugars. You see this among bodybuilders, who have to deal with "carb cravings." You're fighting a losing battle when you pursue strictly dietary or behavioral interventions.

Hormonal health primes your "internal guidance" mechanisms, so you allocate calories pertaining to your needs at any given point in time. Consuming food when you're not hungry raises cortisol. Dietary and behavioral restrictions derails the entire organism in a destructive way.

 

[superhuman]

This is a great post. Its funny you mention NEAT. When i was healthy and higher energy with a general sense of "lets go get some ***t done today" I had a lot of energy. I was a mild fidgeter and usually had to adjust my position in chairs and lying down alot. I was lean, could eat anything, super interested in many things and wanted to be doing something.

Eventually as my metabolism took a dive my fidgeting went away(i didnt even notice) and slowly i became tolerant to positions so much that still I can literally sit in a simple chair for hours on end. I can lay without turning over and just read or watch netflix or type on the computer. There was a point where I would walk into work with a plan, sit down and forget what i was going to do. Its really amazing what the body will do to survive.

Just lately am i started to get my brains energy and excitement back and kill the fog. Hopefully this coming year my body will come back online.

Great post.

This is really important and the biggest one of all factors related to fat loss as well. A good amount of papers lately has discovered that NEAT drops like crazy after a while in calorie deficits. Like you said this will also have a huge impact on life zest in general. Counting steps everyday and other stuff has been important for people that lives sedentary lifestyles because it helps with everything without making you feel tired or hamper recovery.

 

[Luckytype]

This thread

This is really important and the biggest one of all factors related to fat loss as well. A good amount of papers lately has discovered that NEAT drops like crazy after a while in calorie deficits. Like you said this will also have a huge impact on life zest in general. Counting steps everyday and other stuff has been important for people that lives sedentary lifestyles because it helps with everything without making you feel tired or hamper recovery.

And with this, im really hoping that daily walking is going to help kickstart my body back.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Hormonal health primes your "internal guidance" mechanisms, so you allocate calories pertaining to your needs at any given point in time. Consuming food when you're not hungry raises cortisol. Dietary and behavioral restrictions derails the entire organism in a destructive way.

I was unaware that eating when you’re not hungry raises cortisol. If one is not hungry but cortisol is high because of low sugar, how can you lower cortisol without eating?

 

[DaveFoster]

I was unaware that eating when you’re not hungry raises cortisol. If one is not hungry but cortisol is high because of low sugar, how can you lower cortisol without eating?

Cortisol promotes carbohydrate cravings.

 

[johnwester130]

Why are those living in tropical/sub-tropical climates i.e. Niger-Volta basin, Senegambia, etc so lean with visibly high metabolism?

I don't know

But it makes sense. In hot weather , you need less food

 

[Hairfedup]

Street and jungle warfare, piracy, pilferage and non consensual sex are all very energy exhaustive activities. Plus I don’t think there’s enough food around in general to create constant caloric surpluses even without those daily errands.

But it is also entirely possible that it’s all BS including your national geographic-induced fantasy about the slim, fit and shiny black jungle people with spears and leopard skin underwear.

Obesity epidemic has emerged among Nigerians

It begs belief how much of an idiot you are. Forreal. Sad. Typical non-functioning white male behaviour characterised by feelings of being threatened. Love you!

 

[Andman]

Cortisol promotes carbohydrate cravings.

so thats why cypro etc promote hunger?

 

[Luckytype]

so thats why cypro etc promote hunger?

I believe its the serotonin reduction

 

[Andman]

I believe its the serotonin reduction

was just messing around :)
afaik its actually the reduction of cort/adr/estr/sero thats the cause of increased appetite

 

[schultz]

"G. W. Crile and his wife found that the metabolic rate of people in Yucatan, where coconut is a staple food, averaged 25% higher than that of people in the United States. In a hot climate, the adaptive tendency is to have a lower metabolic rate, so it is clear that some factor is more than offsetting this expected effect of high environmental temperatures. "

I remember him saying this. I tried to confirm this once and what I found was that they tested the heart rate of Yucatan men and they had extremely low pulses. I may be exaggerating but for some reason I remember a few of them being in the 30's! Maybe I'll try looking for this information once again.

 

[Hairfedup]

I remember him saying this. I tried to confirm this once and what I found was that they tested the heart rate of Yucatan men and they had extremely low pulses. I may be exaggerating but for some reason I remember a few of them being in the 30's! Maybe I'll try looking for this information once again.

That is crazy interesting....

 

[johnwester130]

I remember him saying this. I tried to confirm this once and what I found was that they tested the heart rate of Yucatan men and they had extremely low pulses. I may be exaggerating but for some reason I remember a few of them being in the 30's! Maybe I'll try looking for this information once again.

a low pulse ?

isn't that a bad sign ?

 

[schultz]

a low pulse ?

isn't that a bad sign ?

That's what Ray says... This is why I was confused. I am reading through 2 or 3 papers right now to try and parse out some info.

 

[Andman]

That's what Ray says... This is why I was confused. I am reading through 2 or 3 papers right now to try and parse out some info.

that would def. warrant its own thread