Hairloss Blood Work: Low T + High DHT + High Progesterone

[EIRE24]

If I had to guess what's causing the hairloss based on the dietary template you described I'd say it was the dairy. Dairy is high in quite a few hormones including estrogen, 5ar reduced steroids, progesterone and others. Its also contains opiates that can increase prolactin and lower dopamine. These factors overall can possibly lead to increased prolactin on your blood test which lowers your testosterone and/or push your test towards dht. I've only seen a select group of people tolerate dairy well, many others are hormonal nightmares from it.

On a practical level I think experimenting with dropping all dairy would be worthwhile and replace it with meat, select seafood and eggs. I'd broaden the range of whole fruits you where taking in, as well as 100% juices and salt to taste, no need to add large quantities of salt. As for fats I'd use beef tallow, chocolate, cocoa butter, and coconut oil. Butter wont have the opiate effect but it will have the hormone effect. I'd also add in a carrot with each meal or so for some fiber to keep your regular (in conjunction with the whole fruit).

In order to regrow hair, I have seen some good reports with microneedle with a 1.5mm derminator every 2 weeks. I'm not a fan of the pharma drugs currently available for regrowth, the side effects and mechanisms of the drugs are often problematic and a bit risky in many cases.

Would you say carrot fiber is the most reliable and safest? I have dropped dairy also and found it has helped a number of issues. Do you think you could add other fiberous vegetables like broccoli perhaps, although not peaty....I find it agrees with me when well cooked.

 

[CLASH]

@EIRE24
I actually get the bulk of my fiber from whole fruit. I ate broccoli for a while but eventually i got symptoms of hypothyroidism from it. From what I read it needs to be boiled for something like 20-30 minutes to get rid of the goitrogens. It also can have a high amount of nitrates. By the time you boil it to reduce most of the goitrogens I would guess is offers relatively little nutritional value overall. In general
I think fruit would be better overall but gotta see what works for you. I personally either dont like or find most vegetables disagree with me. Prior to implementing Peat's principles I was doing paleo and even then the only vegetables that i'd eat were greens (spinach, kale, broccoli) boiled to mush and carrots.

The fruit I eat that has a decent amount of fiber includes dragon fruit, pineapple, blueberries, jackfruit, peaches, sometimes grapes, cherries depending on the season, raspberries, cherimoya pulp, passion fruit pulp, acerola pulp and any other fruit that agrees with me that I can find. I try to get around 20g of fiber a day but often get much more because I enjoy fruit so much. Most of the fruit I eat and buy is frozen, as it usually riper and cheaper. Also, if starch doesnt bother you, you can get a decent amount of fiber from tubers like yams or potatoes as well. As for carrots, I buy yellow, purple and white carrots more than the orange ones.

 

[EIRE24]

@EIRE24
I actually get the bulk of my fiber from whole fruit. I ate broccoli for a while but eventually i got symptoms of hypothyroidism from it. From what I read it needs to be boiled for something like 20-30 minutes to get rid of the goitrogens. It also can have a high amount of nitrates. By the time you boil it to reduce most of the goitrogens I would guess is offers relatively little nutritional value overall. In general
I think fruit would be better overall but gotta see what works for you. I personally either dont like or find most vegetables disagree with me. Prior to implementing Peat's principles I was doing paleo and even then the only vegetables that i'd eat were greens (spinach, kale, broccoli) boiled to mush and carrots.

The fruit I eat that has a decent amount of fiber includes dragon fruit, pineapple, blueberries, jackfruit, peaches, sometimes grapes, cherries depending on the season, raspberries, cherimoya pulp, passion fruit pulp, acerola pulp and any other fruit that agrees with me that I can find. I try to get around 20g of fiber a day but often get much more because I enjoy fruit so much. Most of the fruit I eat and buy is frozen, as it usually riper and cheaper. Also, if starch doesnt bother you, you can get a decent amount of fiber from tubers like yams or potatoes as well. As for carrots, I buy yellow, purple and white carrots more than the orange ones.

I see, thanks for the reply. I have issues with fruit due to the acidity and a stomach ulcer which is unfortunate. I may try and incorporate it again and look for some less acidic fruit.

Do you worry about pairing the fruit with the animal meats you eat with the vitamin C and iron? I must try and look for some carrots that are not orange. I live in Ireland (obviously with the name) and have never seen other coloured carrots.

 

[CLASH]

@EIRE24
Vit C doesnt increase heme iron absorption only non-heme iron. Most of the animal protein is heme iron so it doesnt make much difference either way. I'd be more worried about supplemental iron, fortified iron products, and infection/ inflammation causing iron retention in ferritin than iron from eating meat or seafood.

With that said bood donation a few times a year, aspirin use, pomegranate juice, cranberry juice are helpful for chelating excess iron.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

This is typical of MPB: low test, high DHT, high estrogen.
Virtually all studies done on the hormonal profile of men with MPB equate to the above.

DHT and e2 is a symptom of excess inflammation.
Something you're doing is creating it;
- excess adipose tissue
- micro nutrient deficiencies (track via cronometer)
- consumption of inflammatory foods (individual; usual suspect are dairy, soy, gluten)
- dry/damaged skin (moisturize the entire body daily)
- poor sleep (8 hours minimum, same time each night, complete darkness)
- poor circadian rhythm (wake with the sun, eat fruit immediately upon waking, sungaze into morning sun, no food after sundown)
- excess stress
- avoidance of sun light (15+ minutes in sunlight per day with as much skin exposed as possible)

Fix any of the above issues that apply and the symptoms (high e2, high dht, low test - and hence the hairloss) will subside.
Regrowth is trickier. Topical cyclosporine-a and GHK-CU is worth a try.

@olive This is great stuff. Thanks for sharing. I can work on the sleep and getting more sunlight.

I'm wondering if calcification could be a cause here. I posted another thread here about chronic levels of high serum calcium:What's The Cause Of High Calcium?

This goes along with others thoughts that calcification is a root cause of hair loss:
If Calcification Is The Root Of Hair Loss - How To Reverse It? (Magnesium , D, A, K2, Potassium)
How Could You Break Down Topical Calcification And Fibrosis
Scalp Calcification

Thoughts?

 

[Orangeyouglad]

If I had to guess what's causing the hairloss based on the dietary template you described I'd say it was the dairy. Dairy is high in quite a few hormones including estrogen, 5ar reduced steroids, progesterone and others. Its also contains opiates that can increase prolactin and lower dopamine. These factors overall can possibly lead to increased prolactin on your blood test which lowers your testosterone and/or push your test towards dht. I've only seen a select group of people tolerate dairy well, many others are hormonal nightmares from it.

On a practical level I think experimenting with dropping all dairy would be worthwhile and replace it with meat, select seafood and eggs. I'd broaden the range of whole fruits you where taking in, as well as 100% juices and salt to taste, no need to add large quantities of salt. As for fats I'd use beef tallow, chocolate, cocoa butter, and coconut oil. Butter wont have the opiate effect but it will have the hormone effect. I'd also add in a carrot with each meal or so for some fiber to keep your regular (in conjunction with the whole fruit).

In order to regrow hair, I have seen some good reports with microneedle with a 1.5mm derminator every 2 weeks. I'm not a fan of the pharma drugs currently available for regrowth, the side effects and mechanisms of the drugs are often problematic and a bit risky in many cases.

I'm off the dairy for right now anyway just to test things out so I'll keep that going. Since I also have high serum calcium, I am a bit concerned about dropping dairy, as I think Peat has stated that low calcium intake leads to calcium being leached from your bones.

Good recommendations for the dietary stuff. I eat a lot of salt because my body really seems to crave it.

Regarding the regrowth, right now I'm on Minoxidill foam, and dermarolling 1mm 1 x week. I also started doing redlight too so we'll see how that works.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

what were you eating before? when did the baldness start? how do you feel eating this diet, have things improved or stayed the same ( both with hair loss and general wellebeing)

definitely interested to know how @Orangeyouglad feels with those hormones. most evidence shows even a perfection of hormones will never bring back a normal hairline. Total T at below the the middle is never a good sign though for anyone

Standard American diet but nothing too terrible. When I was younger it was a lot of garbage food. I'm 29 now and for the last two years my diet has been cleaned up much more.

Hairloss on a Peat inspired diet has stayed the same, maybe even gotten worse, but that could just be time. In regards to the way I feel, I generally feel pretty great. I'd say that I'm more confident than before and my temps have gone up. I gained a bit of fat when I started, but I still have some visible abs.

The last thing I'll note is that I was on Finasteride for a couple of years and finally ditched it a little over a year ago. I'm thinking that coming off of that attributed to some of the slight worsening in the hair loss.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

im absolutely convinced all MPB relates to high estrogen.

how is your libido out of interest?

It's not terrible but much worse than 4-5 years ago. Then I felt very driven by it. Now, it's more of an afterthought. I kind of go through my day without chasing or thinking about it. I have no trouble during sex though in terms of EQ.

 

[ddjd]

It's not terrible but much worse than 4-5 years ago. Then I felt very driven by it. Now, it's more of an afterthought. I kind of go through my day without chasing or thinking about it. I have no trouble during sex though in terms of EQ.

I know it sounds terrible and many guys including myself would say it's not worth it, but the fact is, in all my self experimentation, the best hair health only came when my libido and sexual function wa at its lowest. in other words I was asexual. progesterone is one example of something that's amazing against MPB, but destroys libido.

there's a reason why the only thing that big pharma has found to halt hair loss- finasteride, also destroys male sexual function. male sex hormones are so intertwined with MPB. and I think estrogen/ prolactin is the major reason.

the fact is, all those men out there taking finasteride, don't realise they can get the same mpb halting effects from natural bioavailable progesterone without the long term risks and alongside the many other benefits progesterone offers.

if I want my libido and errections back I just stop progesterone for 1-2 days and take some high dose k2 mk4 to boost testosterone (this works incredibly well). the problem is once testosterone goes back up and therefore estrogen, the MPB process gets back on course.

 

[brix]

@ddjd That is too simplistic. Many users here have tried progesterone for hair loss with no positive effect. Blocking estrogen causes hair loss in some. Lowering prolactin doesn’t help for some either.

I’ve had periods of no hair loss and high libido as well as no libido with hair loss. It’s more complex than that.

 

[Kunstruct]

progesterone is one example of something that's amazing against MPB, but destroys libido.

The OP is not low on progesterone, actually his progesterone is high.

 

[ddjd]

@brix @Kunstruct I'm just talking about my own situation. I know for a fact that progesterone works. the complexity seems to come from the fact that we're so biologically diverse and that as you say, it's very hard to pin point, broadly speaking, what is a single cause

 

[Kunstruct]

@brix @Kunstruct I'm just talking about my own situation. I know for a fact that progesterone works. the complexity seems to come from the fact that we're so biologically diverse and that as you say, it's very hard to pin point, broadly speaking, what is a single cause

This makes me curious, if you do some analysis, your Progesterone can be even higher than the OP?
How about your DHT, is it high or low? If you look at the op DHT is not "inhibited" by high Progesterone.

 

[ddjd]

This makes me curious, if you do some analysis, your Progesterone can be even higher than the OP?
How about your DHT, is it high or low? If you look at the op DHT is not "inhibited" by high Progesterone.

the one time I tested DHT it was very low

 

[Orangeyouglad]

This makes me curious, if you do some analysis, your Progesterone can be even higher than the OP?
How about your DHT, is it high or low? If you look at the op DHT is not "inhibited" by high Progesterone.

This is what makes me question the belief that progesterone is protective against hair loss. People have said high progesterone is what protects women from hair loss.

@ddjd I'm more inclined to agree with @brix about the libido/hair loss connection, but of course, I want to have both. I just don't seem to notice more shedding when my libido is high. Also, there are plenty of men with high libidos and perfect hairlines. As you said, it's different for each individual. I'm hoping that doing all this testing can help shed some light on things for myself and the rest of the guys here because it appears the standard low progesterone theory isn't holding up, at least in my case.

 

[ddjd]

I just don't seem to notice more shedding when my libido is high.

don't get confused between shedding and actual MPB. i was shedding for years but my hairline didn't actually move, but its very hard not to get frustrated with all the hair coming out. there's a big difference. a couple of years ago i used a range of supplements and managed to stop the shedding completely but had the worst year in terms of overall receding hairline.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

don't get confused between shedding and actual MPB. i was shedding for years but my hairline didn't actually move, but its very hard not to get frustrated with all the hair coming out. there's a big difference. a couple of years ago i used a range of supplements and managed to stop the shedding completely but had the worst year in terms of overall receding hairline.

@ddjd I agree that there is a difference, but the shedding seems to come directly from the frontal areas of the scalp. Also, there are plenty of guys out there that have a higher libido and great heads of hair. I think there's more to it.

 

[brix]

@Orangeyouglad are you just noticing recession? Or have you noticed hair loss in the crown as well?

my hair loss is temples and then all over. No bald spot but I can notice hairs coming from back and sides, which is not characteristic of MPB. I’ve been losing for 8-9 years yet my hair line hasn’t really moved past Nw2

 

[Kunstruct]

This is what makes me question the belief that progesterone is protective against hair loss. People have said high progesterone is what protects women from hair loss.

Probably you need at least 10x to 100x more progesterone to reach female luteal phase type of progesterone values, 2 ng/ml to 25 ng/ml, which should not be more than 14 days.
0.245 ng/ml which was measured by the lab is more like the follicular phase progesterone value. 0.15 ng/ml to 0.70ng/ml

So depends on which period we refer to as female levels of Progesterone.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

@Orangeyouglad are you just noticing recession? Or have you noticed hair loss in the crown as well?

my hair loss is temples and then all over. No bald spot but I can notice hairs coming from back and sides, which is not characteristic of MPB. I’ve been losing for 8-9 years yet my hair line hasn’t really moved past Nw2

Just the recession and maybe a bit of thinning. What’s crazy is the crown is perfectly fine. Yours really doesn’t sound like traditional MPB.