Hairloss Blood Work: Low T + High DHT + High Progesterone

[Kunstruct]

High DHT? Where do you see that?

I was asking the OP that, all I see is low DHT in urine analysis.

 

[Kunstruct]

I would ask anyone, what they think of so much Androsterone being excreted in urine, is that normal?

 

[Risingfire]

I was asking the OP that, all I see is low DHT in urine analysis.

Exactly!

High Estrone is the analysis which would indicate more estrogen in the tissue. Not surprising for hair loss.

 

[CLASH]

@Orangeyouglad
whats your diet like?

 

[Orangeyouglad]

I was asking the OP that, all I see is low DHT in urine analysis.

Exactly!

High Estrone is the analysis which would indicate more estrogen in the tissue. Not surprising for hair loss.

Bloodwork. Low DHT was shown in the urine analysis. My bad for not posting it originally. See below. DHT is 881.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

@Kunstruct I realized I didn't post the progesterone bloodwork either, just the urine test. I've attached it.

In theory, it should be strange that both DHT and Progesterone are on the higher end at the same time, no?

 

[Orangeyouglad]

@CLASH

Diet is peaty, at least for the last 6-8 months. OJ and a few eggs in the AM with a lot of salt. Oysters once a week. Plenty of cheese and milk. Beef and rice or mashed potatoes for dinner. I've tried to avoid gluten a lot in the last few months.

 

[mayweatherking]

i also have/had high progesterone... i only tested it once, i should really get it retested, but this is the best theory i could find in doing research.... maybe not enough potassium? i don't know if this is the end all be all, but it would be worth it to make sure you are hitting the daily limit.

Chronic potassium depletion increases adrenal progesterone production that is necessary for efficient renal retention of potassium.


Modern dietary habits are characterized by high-sodium and low-potassium intakes, each of which was correlated with a higher risk for hypertension. In this study, we examined whether long-term variations in the intake of sodium and potassium induce lasting changes in the plasma concentration of circulating steroids by developing a mathematical model of steroidogenesis in mice. One finding of this model was that mice increase their plasma progesterone levels specifically in response to potassium depletion. This prediction was confirmed by measurements in both male mice and men. Further investigation showed that progesterone regulates renal potassium handling both in males and females under potassium restriction, independent of its role in reproduction. The increase in progesterone production by male mice was time dependent and correlated with decreased urinary potassium content. The progesterone-dependent ability to efficiently retain potassium was because of an RU486 (a progesterone receptor antagonist)-sensitive stimulation of the colonic hydrogen, potassium-ATPase (known as the non-gastric or hydrogen, potassium-ATPase type 2) in the kidney. Thus, in males, a specific progesterone concentration profile induced by chronic potassium restriction regulates potassium balance.


Chronic potassium depletion increases adrenal progesterone production that is necessary for efficient renal retention of potassium. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[olive]

This is typical of MPB: low test, high DHT, high estrogen.
Virtually all studies done on the hormonal profile of men with MPB equate to the above.

DHT and e2 is a symptom of excess inflammation.
Something you're doing is creating it;
- excess adipose tissue
- micro nutrient deficiencies (track via cronometer)
- consumption of inflammatory foods (individual; usual suspect are dairy, soy, gluten)
- dry/damaged skin (moisturize the entire body daily)
- poor sleep (8 hours minimum, same time each night, complete darkness)
- poor circadian rhythm (wake with the sun, eat fruit immediately upon waking, sungaze into morning sun, no food after sundown)
- excess stress
- avoidance of sun light (15+ minutes in sunlight per day with as much skin exposed as possible)

Fix any of the above issues that apply and the symptoms (high e2, high dht, low test - and hence the hairloss) will subside.
Regrowth is trickier. Topical cyclosporine-a and GHK-CU is worth a try.

 

[CLASH]

@CLASH

Diet is peaty, at least for the last 6-8 months. OJ and a few eggs in the AM with a lot of salt. Oysters once a week. Plenty of cheese and milk. Beef and rice or mashed potatoes for dinner. I've tried to avoid gluten a lot in the last few months.

If I had to guess what's causing the hairloss based on the dietary template you described I'd say it was the dairy. Dairy is high in quite a few hormones including estrogen, 5ar reduced steroids, progesterone and others. Its also contains opiates that can increase prolactin and lower dopamine. These factors overall can possibly lead to increased prolactin on your blood test which lowers your testosterone and/or push your test towards dht. I've only seen a select group of people tolerate dairy well, many others are hormonal nightmares from it.

On a practical level I think experimenting with dropping all dairy would be worthwhile and replace it with meat, select seafood and eggs. I'd broaden the range of whole fruits you where taking in, as well as 100% juices and salt to taste, no need to add large quantities of salt. As for fats I'd use beef tallow, chocolate, cocoa butter, and coconut oil. Butter wont have the opiate effect but it will have the hormone effect. I'd also add in a carrot with each meal or so for some fiber to keep your regular (in conjunction with the whole fruit).

In order to regrow hair, I have seen some good reports with microneedle with a 1.5mm derminator every 2 weeks. I'm not a fan of the pharma drugs currently available for regrowth, the side effects and mechanisms of the drugs are often problematic and a bit risky in many cases.

 

[Zigzag]

This is typical of MPB: low test, high DHT, high estrogen.
Virtually all studies done on the hormonal profile of men with MPB equate to the above.

DHT and e2 is a symptom of excess inflammation.
Something you're doing is creating it;
- excess adipose tissue
- micro nutrient deficiencies (track via cronometer)
- consumption of inflammatory foods (individual; usual suspect are dairy, soy, gluten)
- dry/damaged skin (moisturize the entire body daily)
- poor sleep (8 hours minimum, same time each night, complete darkness)
- poor circadian rhythm (wake with the sun, eat fruit immediately upon waking, sungaze into morning sun, no food after sundown)
- excess stress
- avoidance of sun light (15+ minutes in sunlight per day with as much skin exposed as possible)

Fix any of the above issues that apply and the symptoms (high e2, high dht, low test - and hence the hairloss) will subside.
Regrowth is trickier. Topical cyclosporine-a and GHK-CU is worth a try.

Regrowth, especially on temples is basically impossible without trans route.

 

[gaze]

@CLASH

Diet is peaty, at least for the last 6-8 months. OJ and a few eggs in the AM with a lot of salt. Oysters once a week. Plenty of cheese and milk. Beef and rice or mashed potatoes for dinner. I've tried to avoid gluten a lot in the last few months.

what were you eating before? when did the baldness start? how do you feel eating this diet, have things improved or stayed the same ( both with hair loss and general wellebeing)

 

[Kunstruct]

In theory, it should be strange that both DHT and Progesterone are on the higher end at the same time, no?

Yeah that is interesting and strange. Your Progesterone level is high for males, but not something ultra high. I though is going to be something like 0.400 ng/ml.
I am sure pretty much everyone will choose to ignore this fact because it does not fit the typical theories thrown around.
For example, if you would have come and said, look I am losing hair, a lot of guys could have said, your progesterone is low and DHT cannot be inhibited, because of no analysis.

Now I do not know how much lower DHT will help, many people have DHT around 350-400 pg/ml and still losing hair.
If you have [posted this one other forums I am sure castration would have recommended for 881 pg/ml DHT


On the subject that you have high Estradiol. All I see is excreted Estradiol in urine.

 

[gaze]

definitely interested to know how @Orangeyouglad feels with those hormones. most evidence shows even a perfection of hormones will never bring back a normal hairline. Total T at below the the middle is never a good sign though for anyone

 

[Zigzag]

Now I do not know how much lower DHT will help, many people have DHT around 350-400 pg/ml and still losing hair.
If you have [posted this one other forums I am sure castration would have recommended for 881 pg/ml DHT

Even strong anti androgens work until they don't. Nuking DHT to the ground stops working at some point in time. There's something else to the equation and I HIGHLY doubt you can narrow it to only hormonal issues.

 

[Kunstruct]

@haidut
What do you think of such large levels of Androsterone being excreted in urine compared to serum lower Test levels, serum high Progesterone levels, serum high DHT levels.
This is not a matter I have seen talked about, could it be something relevant?

 

[ddjd]

im absolutely convinced all MPB relates to high estrogen.

how is your libido out of interest?

 

[Zigzag]

im absolutely convinced all MPB relates to high estrogen.
how is your libido out of interest?

There are different types of estrogen though.

 

[ddjd]

There are different types of estrogen though.

im not arguing with that

 

[olive]

im absolutely convinced all MPB relates to high estrogen.

Take some letrozole and see how quickly your hair falls out. Then go look at the bodybuilders rubbing bi-estro cream on their bald scalps achieving regrowth even on large doses of androgens. Then let me know if you still believe estrogens cause hair loss.