Acne/hair Loss Problems. Very High DHT. What Can I Do?

Victor Shaw

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
8
Hi! I've been following Ray's work and researching on the forum for a little more than six months now, and changed my diet and lifestyle since then. I started my journey trying to understand the reasons behind my "hormonal imbalance", and the problems that came with it: acne and hair loss.
I've had acne since I was 13. The hair loss started when I was 18. I'm 22 today, and haven't been able to understand my problem yet.

One year ago, I did some blood tests trying to figure out what was wrong with my hormones. Here are the ones I think are the most important or were out of the range (range is in parenthesis):

Total testosterone: 507 ng/dL (175 ~ 781 ng/dL)
DHT: 2309 pg/mL (250 ~ 990 pg/mL) - Lab said they checked twice to confirm
Progesterone: 0,30 ng/mL (less than 0,20 ng/mL)

Estriol: less than 0,02 ng/mL (less than 0,15 ng/mL)
Estradiol: 20 pg/mL (less than 44 pg/mL)
Estrone: 157 pg/mL (13 ~ 149 pg/mL)
DHEA: 4,1 ng/mL (1,7 ~ 6,1 ng/mL)
SHBG: 33,4 nmol/L (13,2 ~ 89,5 nmol/L)
Free testosterone: 10,6 ng/dL (3,4 ~ 24,6 ng/dL)
Cortisol: 16,6 ug/dL (6,7 ~ 22,6 ug/dL)
LH: 3,74 mUI/mL (0,57 ~ 12,07 mUI/mL)
FSH: 6,59 mUI/mL (0,95 ~ 11,95 mUI/mL)
Total colesterol: 200 mg/dl (less than 190 mg/dl)
Vitamin D - 25-Hydroxy: 27,8 ng/mL (20 ~ 60 ng/mL)
TSH: 2,58 µUI/mL (0,34 ~ 5,60 µUI/mL)
Calcium: 10,7 mg/dL (8,6 ~ 10 mg/dL)
Urine PH: 5 (5,5 ~ 6.5)


I took the results to an endocrinologist. He diagnosed me with "classical MPB" and sent me home with a Finasteride 1 mg prescription, which I took for 6 months and stoped because it was turning me into a girl (gynecomastia, that I already had previously but milder, was growing a lot) and my sex drive and semen quality were very low. Hair and acne got better in that period tho.

I spent the last 6 months trying to figure out what is wrong. My diet is fine, only been eating more starch than I probably should (rice and potatoes). Milk makes my acne worse, so I only get 500mL a day with coffee. My hair is still getting worse everyday, and my skin is looking like ***t (painful cistic acne in the face and shoulders/back). I also tryed some supplements that were recommended in the forum, like taurine and niacinamide, but I didn't really felt any difference.

I didn't do lab tests again because they are very expensive, and I can't afford it right now. But I suppose my results would be the same as they were before fin.

The first thing I tryed was to correct a possible hyperparathyroidism (although I didn't test for PTH, D was low and calcium was high), supplementing vit D, K2 and eating a lot of calcium. I didn't feel any difference, but my skin got worse (probably because of the milk).
I also tryed to lower aromatase, with aspirin, coffee, estroban and everything I could fix in my diet to that regard. I didn't felt any differences.
My last hope is trying something related to the hormones, but I failed to figure out something that could help me in my situation. As you can see, DHT is very high. I have no idea why it is that high. Progesterone is also above the range, and so does estrone. What do you guys think I should try? I've thought about progesterone, but the fact that it is already above range desencourages me.

I'm only posting this here because every doctor I showed this results told me to take finasteride. And after failing for 6 months my only hope is that someone here has an idea about what I can try.

Thanks for the help, and sorry for any typos.
 

opethfeldt

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
685
Your acne and hair loss are mostly due to the sky high estrone. Your DHT is really high as a compensation mechanism by the body to prevent you from essentially becoming a woman. Stopping this process is going to mean lowering estrogen. Nothing wrong with DHT being that high, really. Though if you lower estrogen, your adrenal hyperactivity will probably cease, DHT will come down and testosterone may come up.
 

Sheik

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
703
Your acne and hair loss are mostly due to the sky high estrone. Your DHT is really high as a compensation mechanism by the body to prevent you from essentially becoming a woman. Stopping this process is going to mean lowering estrogen. Nothing wrong with DHT being that high, really. Though if you lower estrogen, your adrenal hyperactivity will probably cease, DHT will come down and testosterone may come up.
I'm sorry but,

*etrone slightly out of range* "SKY HIGH"

*DHT more than double the max* "Nothing wrong. Lower estrogen."

There seems to be something like a dogma on this forum that a thing is either exclusively good or bad, and if you're losing hair it must be something other than DHT, because DHT cannot be the cause of hair loss! This is not a scientific attitude. You and I don't know whether DHT is the cause of hair loss, and any theory must take into account that blocking DHT or T often stops and even reverses pattern hair loss.
 

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,113
Heh. Add more fat-solubles and magnesium. Maybe just 6x or 10x the RDA of all vitamins (RDA for vitamin D3 is actually 2,000 IU when including amount expected from sunlight). Address the rest with a good multivitamin. Any nutrient deficiencies?

MSM lotion.

Magnesium oil spray can be applied topically/facially as an exfoliator. Do on an empty stomach after drinking 24-32 ounces of liquid to prevent burning. Maybe I'd add a bit of sugary carbs to prevent blood sugar issues, making fresh coconut water best (but not necessary).
 
Last edited:
OP
V

Victor Shaw

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
8
Your acne and hair loss are mostly due to the sky high estrone. Your DHT is really high as a compensation mechanism by the body to prevent you from essentially becoming a woman. Stopping this process is going to mean lowering estrogen. Nothing wrong with DHT being that high, really. Though if you lower estrogen, your adrenal hyperactivity will probably cease, DHT will come down and testosterone may come up.
What do you think I could do to lower the estrone? I honestly tried everything natural I could think of..
Maybe trying an aromatase inhibitor? Is there any good one for estrone especifically?
I've read somewhere that estrone is associated with body fat, but I don't think that's my case. I weighed 55 kg (121 lb) when I got that blood test (1,73m / 5'8). I got fatter in the last year (140 lb), but I'm still at approximately 15% body fat percentage.
Thanks for the help!
 

Orangeyouglad

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
161
I'm following this with a lot of curiosity. I have similar issues as well as similar labs. Higher DHT barley in range, higher progesterone out of range, and high calcium out of range. Hairline recession started early, and struggled with acne for a very long time (before taking Accutane at a younger age). I need to test PTH now to rule that out.
 
OP
V

Victor Shaw

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
8
Heh. Add more fat-solubles and magnesium. Maybe just 6x or 10x the RDA of all vitamins (RDA for vitamin D3 is actually 2,000 IU when including amount expected from sunlight). Address the rest with a good multivitamin. Any nutrient deficiencies?

MSM lotion.

Magnesium oil spray can be applied topically/facially as an exfoliator. Do on an empty stomach after drinking 24-32 ounces of liquid to prevent burning. Maybe I'd add a bit of sugary carbs to prevent blood sugar issues, making fresh coconut water best (but not necessary).
I've tried getting a lot of fat-solubles and also had magnesium citrate in the same period (following Elephanto's protocol). The only thing I notice was that my skin got a little dryer (probably the vitamin A), but it didn't help with the acne. I honestly felt like my DHT was even higher.
My vit D levels were low when I got that test, but I think they are fine now, as I had 10k IU daily for a few months. I'm gonna test it again soon tho.
I didn't understand the last part, the liquid is to prevent burning from the magnesium oil?

I'm gonna look into MSM lotion and mag oil. Thanks for your help!
 
OP
V

Victor Shaw

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
8
I'm following this with a lot of curiosity. I have similar issues as well as similar labs. Higher DHT barley in range, higher progesterone out of range, and high calcium out of range. Hairline recession started early, and struggled with acne for a very long time (before taking Accutane at a younger age). I need to test PTH now to rule that out.
Have you tested the estrogens? If so, how was estrone?
 

opethfeldt

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
685
I'm sorry but,

*etrone slightly out of range* "SKY HIGH"

*DHT more than double the max* "Nothing wrong. Lower estrogen."

There seems to be something like a dogma on this forum that a thing is either exclusively good or bad, and if you're losing hair it must be something other than DHT, because DHT cannot be the cause of hair loss! This is not a scientific attitude. You and I don't know whether DHT is the cause of hair loss, and any theory must take into account that blocking DHT or T often stops and even reverses pattern hair loss.
The range for DHT is based on low androgen modern males. It could probably be safely doubled. As for estrone, I think it's pretty safe to say it's bad. Just spend any amount of time here reading about estrogen. I'm not a fan of black white thinking myself and I'm not suggesting he go and tank estrogen to fix his issues. However, acne and hair loss are correlated with high estrogen. It's the same hormonal balance that women with PCOS have. Excess estrogen with high adrenal activity and thus high DHT. Having estrone out of range isn't a good thing. And yes, I'm aware estrogen isn't the sole cause of hair loss. I'm off the opinion DHT is merely a bystander, which is elevated in response to other hormones. I've personally seen a large increase in my hair quality as of late and my DHT is 3 times the reference range and my estrogen is at the bottom. I'm just sharing what worked for me. Neither you nor he needs to follow it.
 

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,113
I'm following this with a lot of curiosity. I have similar issues as well as similar labs. Higher DHT barley in range, higher progesterone out of range, and high calcium out of range. Hairline recession started early, and struggled with acne for a very long time (before taking Accutane at a younger age). I need to test PTH now to rule that out.
How much calcium do you typically get each day? Magnesium? What about other nutrients? What does a CRON-o-meter screenshot look like?
 

Orangeyouglad

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
161
How much calcium do you typically get each day? Magnesium? What about other nutrients? What does a CRON-o-meter screenshot look like?

I haven't ran my diet through the Chronometer in a while. My first thought when I saw I tested high calcium was that I wasn't getting enough, but my typical diet includes milk, cheese, eggs, some spinach, meat and starch for lunch and dinner.

I think the higher calcium is just one interesting part of this. I don't know if high serum calcium would have a large effect on DHT and estrogen levels, but it is interesting to see the similarities in both cases here.

Edit: Also supplement with Mag Glycinate.
 

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,113
I've tried getting a lot of fat-solubles and also had magnesium citrate in the same period (following Elephanto's protocol). The only thing I notice was that my skin got a little dryer (probably the vitamin A), but it didn't help with the acne. I honestly felt like my DHT was even higher.
My vit D levels were low when I got that test, but I think they are fine now, as I had 10k IU daily for a few months. I'm gonna test it again soon tho.
I didn't understand the last part, the liquid is to prevent burning from the magnesium oil?

I'm gonna look into MSM lotion and mag oil. Thanks for your help!
When I applied magnesium oil spray to my face before first drinking a good amount of water, I ended up with what looked like chemical burns.
 

brix

Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
733
I have high calcium in the blood as well and I do not get much from diet. Also have similar testosterone levels. Not sure about DHT but my hair loss started early around 20 years old. Mostly temple recession and overall thinning. Still have most of my hair now at 30.

I do notice taking testosterone (low dose) has slowed and maybe even stopped my hair loss. I do think estrogen/estrone is key here as DHT is up to keep estrone levels down.

I think test base in DMSO and vitamin e with aspirin could help a lot.
 

blueorca

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
77
Zinc and b6 block 5 alpha-reductase almost totally. This is the enzyme used to convert testosterone to DHT, so its a good way to go if thats what you want. Also you can try progesterone which would help with the estrogen.
 

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,113
Zinc and b6 block 5 alpha-reductase almost totally. This is the enzyme used to convert testosterone to DHT, so its a good way to go if thats what you want. Also you can try progesterone which would help with the estrogen.
What? I thought zinc increased DHT? Source?
 

lampofred

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,244
I think high serum calcium and low urine pH points to high PTH compensating for high phosphate. High phosphate means adrenals are overactive. I would read RP's article on phosphate, activation, aging. Increasing cortisol (via coffee, NoFap, sleeping less) and then acclimating to the increased stress hormones by slowing breathing will increase baseline CO2 tone, which is the main thing that controls phosphate.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom