Foods Consumed By The Healthiest People, Part 5: The Nicoya Peninsula

[Kasper]

You also ,as I mentioned ,used the term ,"people like Danny Roddy etc", does your own criteria/associations not apply to you?

Is there anything worng with saying, "people like Danny Roddy"? I said it here I think:

Well, one thing I don't get, is that people like Ray Peat, Danny Roddy, haidut, etc. are often talking about "starches" as a general term.

I'm not a native english speaker, I don't know, is there anything offensive about this? It is not meant that way at least.

Anti-starch is not a vague term imo. You claimed we should have a discussion and listen to each other's point of view but then say, you have no interest in discussing terminology.

Hey, I never said I'm interested in discussing if we can put someone in the anti-starch box or not. For what purpose would we have that discussion?

I don't want to call them anti-starch because they are clearly not,yes they discussed starch not being ideal.

Well... Have you listened to this? (starting at 41:09) Danny Roddy and Haidut talk about that starches are correlated with diabetes, IBS, that it may cause neurodegenerative conditions like parkinson, alzheimer etc., inflammation problems, etc., that it raises prolactin, and more problems. That is not saying, starches are not ideal, that is saying most starches should be avoided at all costs, especially grains, and that potatoes and white rice should also be limited.

But I haven't ever seen a study that shows this link with those diseases with a high potatoes diet. I think those correlation come from the toxicity of grains.

You are saying it's an issue of generalisation, I have to admit here I don't get where you see this generalisation either, westsidepufa is not saying it's a generalisation issue from what I gather.

In this show, all kind of diseases are generally linked to starch consumption. In the end of the show, they talk about that they mean with starch especially the grains. That potatoes and white rice also should be limited, but those should give less problems. I feel like that those statements about starch in general being correlated with all kind of chronic diseases is not fair, I think it may be better to state that grains are being correlated with all those chronic diseases.

 

[Drareg]

Nothing wrong with saying people, you had issue with me saying it,you claimed it was one of the things that justified your opinion on my posts,toxic aggressive etc.

Yes I have listened to the show, this is the reason I am putting points in the thread here. I have read Ray Peats articles on starch.
Could they be any more reasonable ?
It is saying starches are not ideal in the video, they are not saying avoid starches at all cost. What does he say about lentils for example?
He speaks about potatoes and rice digesting higher up in the digestive tract. He says they are not safe briefly In the middle of an interview,general dialogue,he then says potato is a good food. It's Haiduts view they are generally safe, he accepts you could survive entirely on butter and potatoes. He says that is a good food to have,detoxifying ammonia.
He uses the terminology of, "safe ones" ,quote on unquote, do you not get this?
They are having a discussion, why do people insist on nit picking from it, it's a show that is supposed to flow.
Read Ray Peats articles on starch, Danny Roddy and Haidut offer their own opinions, they are not representatives for Ray Peat but they like using his ideas as a fulcrum,this forum is used in such a way.

Anti-starch shadows.

 

[Tarmander]

You guys should stop arguing and make out already.

On a more serious note, I still want to know where to get zero fat goats milk

 

[Westside PUFAs]

You guys should stop arguing and make out already.

On a more serious note, I still want to know where to get zero fat goats milk

I make it myself. I but this brand: Home - Summerhill Dairy

Put two bottles in a glass jar with a spout on the bottom like this:

Let sit for two days. All the cream rises to top. Drain. Use cream for shaving or skin moisturizing. It's not truly 100% fat free which is fine. If saturated fat has any benefit, the small amount I get from goat milk is enough.

 

[Kasper]

You guys should stop arguing and make out already.

You are right, I don't think I've ever had such a useless discussion ... Sorry for all those off topics posts, I should have understood, that @Westside PUFAs stopped reacting probably for a good reason.

 

[Tarmander]

I make it myself. I but this brand: Home - Summerhill Dairy

Put two bottles in a glass jar with a spout on the bottom like this:

Let sit for two days. All the cream rises to top. Drain. Use cream for shaving or skin moisturizing. It's not truly 100% fat free which is fine. If saturated fat has any benefit, the small amount I get from goat milk is enough.

Thanks man, I was wondering how you did it. I used to do similar with whole cows milk and churn the cream into butter.

 

[Drareg]

You are right, I don't think I've ever had such a useless discussion ... Sorry for all those off topics posts, I should have understood, that @Westside PUFAs stopped reacting probably for a good reason.

Whats useless is people spreading misinformation about Ray Peat and others views on starch, not engaging counter points ,creating obvious strawman and creating the illusion of taking the high road brings nothing to the discussion .

At what point will westsidepufa start a thread that clearly outlines his views on starch?

 

[tara]

Are any of these cultures very creative/intelligent ?

I think it's pretty hard for people in one culture to judge the intelligence of people in a very different culture. (It's a bit dodgy even within the same culture.)

I know many who are quite jolly yet they still have the same diseases.

Being jolly doesn't prove no stress.

Another important thing to notes is that these "blue zones" tend to be located closer to the equator; another association highlighting the importance of abundant natural sunlight. We evolved right near the equator and thus thrive with adequate sun exposure.

I reckon this is likely important too.

Lots of kids want plain pasta.

Yip.

For example, fruits have many advantages over grains, besides the difference between sugar and starch.

That full quote is a good one. It refers to some disadvantages, but gives a context that shows it's also compatible with good health at least for some people.
One point I'd make is that logically:
"X has advantages over Y" does not mean the same as "Y has no advantages" or "Foods containing Y have no advantages" or "X is always better than Y in all ways for everyone".
I think sometimes people make leaps like this on various things Peat has talked about. Peat often talks about complex things, and is often careful not to oversimplify.

 

[Drareg]

I think it's pretty hard for people in one culture to judge the intelligence of people in a very different culture. (It's a bit dodgy even within the same culture.)


Being jolly doesn't prove no stress.


I reckon this is likely important too.


Yip.


That full quote is a good one. It refers to some disadvantages, but gives a context that shows it's also compatible with good health at least for some people.
One point I'd make is that logically:
"X has advantages over Y" does not mean the same as "Y has no advantages" or "Foods containing Y have no advantages" or "X is always better than Y in all ways for everyone".
I think sometimes people make leaps like this on various things Peat has talked about. Peat often talks about complex things, and is often careful not to oversimplify.

What if you view intelligence from creative intelligence/adaptability point of view?
Like Silicon Valley for example, would that area be considered more creative intelligent/adaptable ?
The Internet has changed the world,electricty, they must be signs of an underlying dynamic of similarity in culture. Even very rural areas in the third world use Internet and phones. I bet if Teslas wireless electricty is feesable many will sign up. What about technology for water wells.
Most people will take an antibiotic world wide ,some medicine in the third world has helped a lot. Malaria.

The longevity in this blue zone are not tribes, they are connected to the mainland.

I think longevity is a useful guide but not the final arbiter,many psychopaths seem to live long ,anecdotal observation, a lot of war criminals from the Nazi lived until old age, they were involved in some terrible acts as with many other modern war mongers from all over the world.
I can't imagine anyone doing a study on psychopath longevity, the results might encourage the wrong attitude in the general public.

 

[tara]

Like Silicon Valley for example, would that area be considered more creative intelligent/adaptable ?

I'd see it as an application of intelligence to some particular areas, not necessarily an indication of higher general intelligence than other groups.

I think longevity is a useful guide but not the final arbiter,many psychopaths seem to live long ,anecdotal observation, a lot of war criminals from the Nazi lived until old age, they were involved in some terrible acts as with many other modern war mongers from all over the world. I can't imagine anyone doing a study on psychopath longevity, the results might encourage the wrong attitude in the general public.

I can't see a lot of value in such a study either, but I doubt it would generally indicate sociopathy as correlating with longevity - though it might also depend on the particular society - some societies encourage and reward sociopathy more than others.

Some of the holocaust survivors have lived to an old age too - over 90 and in a few cases over 100. Same with hibaskusha. Doesn't make being a victim of a Nazi concentration camp or atomic bomb a good survival strategy either.

 

[Drareg]

I'd see it as an application of intelligence to some particular areas, not necessarily an indication of higher general intelligence than other groups.



I can't see a lot of value in such a study either, but I doubt it would generally indicate sociopathy as correlating with longevity - though it might also depend on the particular society - some societies encourage and reward sociopathy more than others.

Some of the holocaust survivors have lived to an old age too - over 90 and in a few cases over 100. Same with hibaskusha. Doesn't make being a victim of a Nazi concentration camp or atomic bomb a good survival strategy either.

Great point on the survivors, so what does All that say for longevity?

A great book from a holocaust survivor was ,"mans search for meaning", it's what got him through it.
Quantum physics and many perennial traditions touch on meaning and the importance of it, adjusting mindset to reality will influence electrical conductivity.
Purpose/meaning, everybody has a different angle on it, cultures try unite more of it together.
Maybe they have a strong culture in the bluezone, the bigger a community and culture the more fragile it becomes, the smaller but not too small ,the more anti fragile it becomes, biology influenced accordingly.

Ray Peat touches on metabolism causing a more coherent flow,allowing for more unfoldment of reality. Information /Meaning is doing the same thing. However you access it,I don't think it matters.

Albert Hoffmann lived until he was 102 ,very sharp. He discovered lsd and isolated psilocybin.

 

[tara]

Great point on the survivors, so what does All that say for longevity?

I think it says that if you have a big enough sample, a few of them are likely to live a long time. But a statistical analysis might show negative correlations with those high stress conditions.

A great book from a holocaust survivor was ,"mans search for meaning", it's what got him through it.

I've heard of it, but not yet read it.
Makes sense to me that that way one makes meaning in one's life affects health.

 

[Drareg]

"Mans search for starches", out soon.

 

[kaybb]

Had another female relative, again died just shy of 100. Extreme authoritarian, not a warm person, conservative, uber religious. Read Bible, didn't watch much TV. Very active in her church -it was a huge part of her life. Homemaker, physical work, had more than 6 kids, some died young. Lived a primitive life -no running water, used outhouse, handwashed clothes, etc. until later in life. Had few worldly possessions and gave away what little money she had or anything people asked of her.

Practiced calorie restriction, was thin as a rail and I think she took pride in it. No real health problems that I know of until later, when she had some heart issue. I don't think she took many prescriptions or sought medical treatment unless family made her. She believed anything physically wrong was God's will and she didn't want to go against it. However, I think she sometimes took nitroglycerin or something for her heart.

Never saw a gynecologist but once when she was in her 80s and had prolapsed uterus, family made her go to doc.

She loved laxatives.

Died at home.

So interesting !! Loved reading your posts Peata.

 

[beachbum]

So interesting !! Loved reading your posts Peata.

Hi all

The topic of this thread interested me alot. I have been reading alot of other culture foods and I personally came to my own decision to have as much balance in my life... also IMO I think have a good digestive system is diffinitly key. I am looking into digestive enzymes and taking a pancreatic one in between meals. Don't over eat. I am planning on making future dishes I love...salsa, rice beans, pulled pork, stews, fruit salads with heavy cream and much more... but all homemade ..thank God I can make it from scratch because I love cooking and baking. And yes I might have junk on occasion. . Do what makes you happy and or content. Balance.. I personally need to eat a balance of foods...sorry for rambling

Beachbum

 

[Ideonaut]

Oh boy. That's a bit harsh. Read the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" or watch the documentary. That is why Europeans were successful. You're turning the topic into something else entirely. The context here is food that was/is consumed by long-lived peoples with a very low incidence of the most common ailments; heart disease, cancer, type 2 diabetes, and rheumatoid arthritis. It is a direct contraction and unscientific of people to say said foods cause those ailments when the evidence is clear they do not. Your opinion on their philosophy and culture has nothing to do with the science of the human animal consuming natural foods. Of course stress is a factor but not every westerner is stressed. I know many who are quite jolly yet they still have the same diseases. It's the food.

I read it--utter hogwash--the idea that geographic circumstance determines all. I take the point well that a relatively stress-free, high longevity life is not everything. It might produce worse cultural results and be worse overall.

 

[zztr]

"Guns, Germs, and Steel" is super silly, but people lap it up and it gets pushed all the time because nothing about it offends anyone. Much more rigorous work like "A Farewell to Alms" and "The 10,000 Year Explosion" present much more powerful models of why populations are so different. But you'll not see the PC crowd recommending everyone read these.

 

[lvysaur]

Europeans weren't successful though, Germanics were. Japan or even Korea blow eastern Europe out of the water.

If you want to be all "anti PC so non snowflake" about it and insist on a primarily genetic explanation for the last 500 years of European dominance, you must also recognize that this cannot be generalized to Slavs, Celts, Balkanites, and Southern Europeans.

Don't take my word for it though, take it from the alt-right's own darling, Charles Murray:

“Or you can think of it another way: 80 percent of all the European significant figures can be enclosed in an area that does not include Russia, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Spain, Portugal, the Balkans, Poland, Hungary, East and West Prussia, Ireland, Wales, most of Scotland, the lower quarter of Italy, and about a third of France.”

 

[zztr]

Are you trying to address the thrust of arguments presented in "A Farewell to Alms"? I don't understand where you're coming from. That book goes into comparisons of European societies quite a bit. You're certainly not buttressing the arguments in "Guns, Germs, and Steel." So I'm confused.

 

[DaveFoster]

Don't take my word for it though, take it from the alt-right's own darling, Charles Murray:

“Or you can think of it another way: 80 percent of all the European significant figures can be enclosed in an area that does not include Russia, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Spain, Portugal, the Balkans, Poland, Hungary, East and West Prussia, Ireland, Wales, most of Scotland, the lower quarter of Italy, and about a third of France.”

One must keep in mind that the lineages of those in northern and central Italy were influenced by the Gallic sack of Rome around 390 BC. Also, extrapolating such without taking into account all of the wars and territory acquisitions during this time doesn't yield a good model. Further, these areas tend to also be trade and cultural centers (and one can argue that trade and culture have a degree of interdependence: one relies on the success of the other.) Examples include the heart of the Roman Empire (Venice, Florence, and Rome), Paris, the Netherlands, and southern Britannia. This also doesn't consider the great thinkers of the Greek City-States, and so on.

It's also intuitive to think that European culture, largely under the influence of individualist thought (and liberal ideas beginning with the Renaissance) would feature more innovation and thus "significance."