Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[madis l]

Thanks for the heads-up! Besides the two recoveries in the link, have you tried this yourself or any version of it, and have you experienced any relief?

Not yet , need to do a diagnostic first which i'm yet to do for financial reasons as the total cost could soar to 1000/1500 dollars for the full panel but i'm going to do it sooner rather than later .

 

[Unknownuser]

How long did you follow the protocol for? I think the small doses shouldn’t massively effect your own LH production at least not on a long term basis but I’m still learning about it. Libido and feeling manly aren’t always the best indicators of high testosterone (from my understanding at least), So many other hormones and neurotransmitters at play that can create these feelings (Or switch them off). I have had very very high Testosterone (Doctors were frustratingly congratulating me) since PFS began and for most of it not felt a normal libido or feeling like a man. From my experience and seemingly others I would best avoiding supplementing zinc and copper, neither of them give the desired results and often the opposite. I feel for you though... that disconnection is not nice, I felt that a lot in my PfS journey. I found Cypro much better for improving digestion and also giving clearer emotions and thoughts (But certainly not on the first attempt at taking them) and in all honesty I don’t fully understand why that works. I would stay away from ‘propecia help’ at all costs, I swear that place does more harm than good and puts already emotionally unstable people in a worse place by creating a ‘doomsday’ mentality.

I am in week 16 I think. You know, I am saying it for some time now that I think PFS is Adrenal Fatigue and histamine intolerance. Adrenal fatigue can lead to histamine intolerance as well as a messed up gut. Strangely this topic gets no attention on the PFS forums. Most PFS guys have histamine intolerance but are not aware of it. I remember, pre fin I was doing lots of meditation and self hypnosis with great success. I could sent my body to sleep while my mind was fully awake. That time I could not make the connection but as I started taking fin, I was not able to meditate or do self hypnosis. Because my body was itching and scratching everywhere. I could not stand 10 seconds still without scratching my self. I still have this going on.

With Cypro I guess you mean cyproheptadine, wich is an antihistamine. It simply blocks the histamine receptors, so you get no more allergic reactions. The problem is, the histamine in the body gets more and more because the body thinks it needs to produce more histamine since cypro blocks the receptors. So its a evil cycle. Most people cant get off of cypro easily when they are on them for too long because the receptors get flooded with histamine once cypro is stopped. It takes weeks until the body gets rid off the excessive histamine. Due to heavy symptoms, people get back on cypro very quickly.

I have this disconnection when my histamine is high. Pre HCG I was getting this disconnection when I was hitting the gym or eating very wrong. Lifting releases lots of histamine. So I felt 3-4 days completely disconnected. I figured that out 2 years ago. Ever since I stopped doing sports (and of course eating low histamine), I felt mentally way better. Thats why I am guessing that HCG, in my case, triggers histamine release.

What is also very interesting is, that histamine docks into the H3 receptors of the neurotransmitters in the brain like Gaba, Serotonine, Noradrenaline, Dopamine. I am guessing that also allopregnenalone and other receptors gets blocked from excessive histamine as well. Wich leads to a deficiency in these neurotransmitters in the brain. That all makes sense to me when we see how guys with PFS suffer mentally.

 

[madis l]

I am in week 16 I think. You know, I am saying it for some time now that I think PFS is Adrenal Fatigue and histamine intolerance. Adrenal fatigue can lead to histamine intolerance as well as a messed up gut. Strangely this topic gets no attention on the PFS forums. Most PFS guys have histamine intolerance but are not aware of it. I remember, pre fin I was doing lots of meditation and self hypnosis with great success. I could sent my body to sleep while my mind was fully awake. That time I could not make the connection but as I started taking fin, I was not able to meditate or do self hypnosis. Because my body was itching and scratching everywhere. I could not stand 10 seconds still without scratching my self. I still have this going on.

With Cypro I guess you mean cyproheptadine, wich is an antihistamine. It simply blocks the histamine receptors, so you get no more allergic reactions. The problem is, the histamine in the body gets more and more because the body thinks it needs to produce more histamine since cypro blocks the receptors. So its a evil cycle. Most people cant get off of cypro easily when they are on them for too long because the receptors get flooded with histamine once cypro is stopped. It takes weeks until the body gets rid off the excessive histamine. Due to heavy symptoms, people get back on cypro very quickly.

I have this disconnection when my histamine is high. Pre HCG I was getting this disconnection when I was hitting the gym or eating very wrong. Lifting releases lots of histamine. So I felt 3-4 days completely disconnected. I figured that out 2 years ago. Ever since I stopped doing sports (and of course eating low histamine), I felt mentally way better. Thats why I am guessing that HCG, in my case, triggers histamine release.

What is also very interesting is, that histamine docks into the H3 receptors of the neurotransmitters in the brain like Gaba, Serotonine, Noradrenaline, Dopamine. I am guessing that also allopregnenalone and other receptors gets blocked from excessive histamine as well. Wich leads to a deficiency in these neurotransmitters in the brain. That all makes sense to me when we see how guys with PFS suffer mentally.

Not sure if it's histamine intolerance but it's certainly related to intestinal permeability , which would explain why we experience "crashes" from eating simple foods .

 

[Jayvee]

@Unknownuser

Not sure if it's histamine intolerance but it's certainly related to intestinal permeability , which would explain why we experience "crashes" from eating simple foods .

I found Cypro helpful but only in very small doses and not taking too regularly, I felt awful after 4 days at 1mg but have found it very good at 0.5mg on random days or when I feel my mind is a bit racey (I have a fairly high pressure job so it helps me to settle). Perhaps smaller less regular doses is one way around the ‘rebound’? I went in fairly blindly to cypro so my knowledge here is limited, I feel histamine must have some role, perhaps that’s why it felt like my digestion improved? Maybe it does a ‘Patch job’ damping effects on leaky gut and the histamine response? (Is that plausible?)

I have also come across 2 people who recovered or seen significant improvements from it anyway. It’s a mystery for me but I can agree for sure that it should be approached with absolute caution.

 

[Unknownuser]

@Unknownuser


I found Cypro helpful but only in very small doses and not taking too regularly, I felt awful after 4 days at 1mg but have found it very good at 0.5mg on random days or when I feel my mind is a bit racey (I have a fairly high pressure job so it helps me to settle). Perhaps smaller less regular doses is one way around the ‘rebound’? I went in fairly blindly to cypro so my knowledge here is limited, I feel histamine must have some role, perhaps that’s why it felt like my digestion improved? Maybe it does a ‘Patch job’ damping effects on leaky gut and the histamine response? (Is that plausible?)

I have also come across 2 people who recovered or seen significant improvements from it anyway. It’s a mystery for me but I can agree for sure that it should be approached with absolute caution.

Sorry I mixed it up with Zyrtec / cetrizine. But cypro seems also be an serotonine antagonist.

 

[Jayvee]

Sorry I mixed it up with Zyrtec / cetrizine. But cypro seems also be an serotonine antagonist.

Something else has dawned on me. Have you been taking Vitamin D during your HCG protocol? Or have you had low Vitamin D going into the protocol?

 

[Unknownuser]

Something else has dawned on me. Have you been taking Vitamin D during your HCG protocol? Or have you had low Vitamin D going into the protocol?

I am taking about 5000UI D3 a day as drops but am also pretty much everyday at the beach getting hours of sun all year. What could be though is that my cholesterol is low (never checked it) since my body cant digest fats due to exocrine pancreas insufficiency. I am taking digestive enzymes but they dont really do what they supposed to do.

I guess I will stay on HCG for another 8-10 weeks to complete the 6 months. Or I stop it, do TRT and add HCG later when I stop TRT. I lost 15 years so I will try everything, no matter what the cost is. If I can get a libido, I would happily lose all my hairs :)

 

[Gustav3Y]

With Cypro I guess you mean cyproheptadine, wich is an antihistamine. It simply blocks the histamine receptors, so you get no more allergic reactions. The problem is, the histamine in the body gets more and more because the body thinks it needs to produce more histamine since cypro blocks the receptors. So its a evil cycle. Most people cant get off of cypro easily when they are on them for too long because the receptors get flooded with histamine once cypro is stopped. It takes weeks until the body gets rid off the excessive histamine. Due to heavy symptoms, people get back on cypro very quickly.

Lowering histamine and inhibiting a specific receptor are different and not identical.
Powerfully antagonizing H1 exclusively that does not mean it has a powerful antagonizing effect on H4, histamine can still bind to that.

It antagonizes H1 the most with a very high affinity to it, then 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, as well as most of the cholinergic/acetylcholine receptors (M).
It is no wonder having the M receptors antagonized can also make one feel lifeless unless these are overstimulated already, but this is also why it works well on the gastrointestinal disorders.
It has weaker affinity to other histamine receptors, except H1, a receptor on which even Cetirizine has a potent effect on also.
Suppressing D3 has an impact on cognitive function also, it show this drug to have a good affinity to it, yet it is not mentioned in which way, we can guess it antagonizes D3 since it is mentioned to antagonize D2 a tiny bit.

 

[Jayvee]

I am taking about 5000UI D3 a day as drops but am also pretty much everyday at the beach getting hours of sun all year. What could be though is that my cholesterol is low (never checked it) since my body cant digest fats due to exocrine pancreas insufficiency. I am taking digestive enzymes but they dont really do what they supposed to do.

I guess I will stay on HCG for another 8-10 weeks to complete the 6 months. Or I stop it, do TRT and add HCG later when I stop TRT. I lost 15 years so I will try everything, no matter what the cost is. If I can get a libido, I would happily lose all my hairs :)

yeah I think everyone can agree with you on that, hair loss doesn’t seem like such a big deal anymore. You are very lucky to live somewhere warm and by a beach, take full advantage of that!

It’s really important you don’t see it as ‘lost years’ I think that way of thinking is damaging and can activate the stress response system And lead to emotional decisions rather than pragmatic solutions, I know what you mean though but maybe challenge that belief and turn it into something positive (It’s literally your only choice). I bet you and everyone on this forum appreciates health a lot more than they did before PFS. It might take some tweaking and more exploring... but you will get there.

 

[madis l]

@Unknownuser


I found Cypro helpful but only in very small doses and not taking too regularly, I felt awful after 4 days at 1mg but have found it very good at 0.5mg on random days or when I feel my mind is a bit racey (I have a fairly high pressure job so it helps me to settle). Perhaps smaller less regular doses is one way around the ‘rebound’? I went in fairly blindly to cypro so my knowledge here is limited, I feel histamine must have some role, perhaps that’s why it felt like my digestion improved? Maybe it does a ‘Patch job’ damping effects on leaky gut and the histamine response? (Is that plausible?)

I have also come across 2 people who recovered or seen significant improvements from it anyway. It’s a mystery for me but I can agree for sure that it should be approached with absolute caution.

Cypro (and other anti-bacterial drugs) alters the gut micriobiome so it's a double edged sword , you felt awful on high doses probably because it was killing the wrong strains of bacteria in the gut (good bacteria) and thus far amplifying the imbalance , not sure why small doses worked in your situation , maybe it acts more on pathogens and less on "good" bacteria when consumed in low doses but that's just an hypothesis.

Histamine intolerance is often a consequence and not the cause of intestinal permeability ( leaky gut) , intestines are where most of our DAO enzyme is produced (enzyme responsible of breaking down histamine ) , since our bodies may produce less DAO when the gut is inflamed / damaged , it leads to a build up of a huge amount of histamine in the body , so probably small doses cypro improved the gut lining which lead to an improved DAO activity and histamine detox but again that's just an hypothesis .

I personally believe that pathogens are the main culprit (i respect thoses who disagree with that view ) leaky gut , histamine intolerance , neurosteroids/neurotransmitters imbalance are just a consequence of the actions of theses pathogens exacerbated by finasteride use , can't find another explanation to why the chemicals imbalance would stick after finasteride cessation .

 

[madis l]

Lowering histamine and inhibiting a specific receptor are different and not identical.
Powerfully antagonizing H1 exclusively that does not mean it has a powerful antagonizing effect on H4, histamine can still bind to that.

It antagonizes H1 the most with a very high affinity to it, then 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, as well as most of the cholinergic/acetylcholine receptors (M).
It is no wonder having the M receptors antagonized can also make one feel lifeless unless these are overstimulated already, but this is also why it works well on the gastrointestinal disorders.
It has weaker affinity to other histamine receptors, except H1, a receptor on which even Cetirizine has a potent effect on also.
Suppressing D3 has an impact on cognitive function also, it show this drug to have a good affinity to it, yet it is not mentioned in which way, we can guess it antagonizes D3 since it is mentioned to antagonize D2 a tiny bit.

Interesting , it would also explain why rats have been shown to experience a long lasting dysfunction in the cholinergic system after Repeated finasteride administrations

The potential involvement of cholinergic system in finasteride induced cognitive dysfunction - ScienceDirect

 

[JoeKool]

@gabe you mentioned you had a couple better nights of sleep and a slight improvement in mental state, is this your 4th week? Are you planning on staying on trt cream?

@sladerunner69 i think you’re the furthest through the hcg and I personally notice post hcg I respond normal/better to old supplements. Have you ever tried a cleanse before hcg and had similar luck? You mentioned the recent cleanse was helpful, how else are you feeling?

@MyUsernameHere how are you ?

@Jayvee are you past week 4 on hcg? Are you noticing any mental clarity ?

@Tyr1 how are you?

 

[Jayvee]

Cypro (and other anti-bacterial drugs) alters the gut micriobiome so it's a double edged sword , you felt awful on high doses probably because it was killing the wrong strains of bacteria in the gut (good bacteria) and thus far amplifying the imbalance , not sure why small doses worked in your situation , maybe it acts more on pathegens and less on "good" bacteria when consumed in low doses but that's just an hypothesis.

Histamine intolerance is often a consequence and not the cause of intestinal permeability ( leaky gut) , intestines are where most of our DAO enzyme is produced (enzyme responsible of breaking down histamine ) , since our bodies may produce less DAO when the gut is inflamed / damaged , it leads to a build up of a huge amount of histamine in the body , so probably small doses cypro improved the gut lining which lead to an improved DAO activity and histamine detox but again that's just an hypothesis .

I personnaly believe that pathogens are the main culprit (i respect thoses who disagree with that view ) leaky gut , histamine intolerance , neurosteroids/neurotransmitters imbalance are just a consequence of the actions of theses pathogens exacerbated by finasteride use , can't find another explanation to why the chemicals imbalance would stick after finasteride cessation .

I feel like the leaky gut cause has a lot of merit but whenever I have ever focused primarily on gut protocols I tend to exacerbate other issues. I know the gut has a strong influence on the body but I also think that it works the other way and the body influences the gut equally. I have found that ‘stabilising’ the body (keeping stress down, supplementing, drugs etc) have influenced the guts balance.

I have experimented with thyroid (On the theory that it was SIBO) and found all digestive issues resolved to an almost perfect state but then after not taking it, the gut issues returned to slightly less crappy than before Thyroid. I had some improvement without doing anything differently in terms of diet.

This is all from my limited knowledge and experience. So don’t see that as me challenging your theory or saying it’s wrong.

 

[Jayvee]

@gabe you mentioned you had a couple better nights of sleep and a slight improvement in mental state, is this your 4th week? Are you planning on staying on trt cream?

@sladerunner69 i think you’re the furthest through the hcg and I personally notice post hcg I respond normal/better to old supplements. Have you ever tried a cleanse before hcg and had similar luck? You mentioned the recent cleanse was helpful, how else are you feeling?

@MyUsernameHere how are you ?

@Jayvee are you past week 4 on hcg? Are you noticing any mental clarity ?

@Tyr1 how are you?

On to week 5 as of today. big improvements with mental clarity. I included P5p like you suggested and upped my Vitamin D and it’s made a big difference. I don’t think Vitamin D should be overlooked in this protocol. I’m trying hard to manage my expectations but the improvements are real and far more consistent than anything else I’ve tried so far.

Erections and mood are slightly better but libido still isn’t great, I expect this could improve ‘if’ prolactin is the cause for this.

 

[madis l]

I feel like the leaky gut cause has a lot of merit but whenever I have ever focused primarily on gut protocols I tend to exacerbate other issues. I know the gut has a strong influence on the body but I also think that it works the other way and the body influences the gut equally. I have found that ‘stabilising’ the body (keeping stress down, supplementing, drugs etc) have influenced the guts balance.

I have experimented with thyroid (On the theory that it was SIBO) and found all digestive issues resolved to an almost perfect state but then after not taking it, the gut issues returned to slightly less crappy than before Thyroid. I had some improvement without doing anything differently in terms of diet.

This is all from my limited knowledge and experience. So don’t see that as me challenging your theory or saying it’s wrong.

Agreed ; that's why many have recovered playing with hormones , like i said previously there's a bidirectional relationship between the gut micriobiome and the nervous system , so an alteration in the nervous system will directly affect the gut and vice versa , which is what finasteride does in the first place , it alters the chemicals in the brain during it's use through the inhibition of 5ar which then results in a chronic alteration of gut bacteria and a chronic alteration of neurosteroids as a consequence , it's a vicious cycle , anyway that's my hypothesis

 

[Unknownuser]

I have experimented with thyroid (On the theory that it was SIBO) and found all digestive issues resolved to an almost perfect state but then after not taking it, the gut issues returned to slightly less crappy than before Thyroid. I had some improvement without doing anything differently in terms of diet.

What did you take for thyroid? I have most of the time low body temperature. Just got my TSH, ft3 and ft4 checked and all came back perfectly. But maybe trying t3 could help anyway?

Agreed ; that's why many have recovered playing with hormones , like i said previously there's a bidirectional relationship between the gut micriobiome and the nervous system , so an alteration in the nervous system will directly affect the gut and vice versa , which is what finasteride does in the first place , it alters the chemicals in the brain during it's use through the inhibition of 5ar which then results in a chronic alteration of gut bacteria and a chronic alteration of neurosteroids as a consequence , it's a vicious cycle , anyway that's my hypothesis

So what about FMT? Maybe that could fix everything? I am in a FMT facebook group and there are many people swear on FMT. They tried everything to fix their gut but never had success. I mean diets, probiotics, prebiotics, antibiotics, herbs and all on planet. But they only healed after FMT. Unfortunately after some months or years the benefits seem to disappear in some cases.

 

[Jayvee]

What did you take for thyroid? I have most of the time low body temperature. Just got my TSH, ft3 and ft4 checked and all came back perfectly. But maybe trying t3 could help anyway?



So what about FMT? Maybe that could fix everything? I am in a FMT facebook group and there are many people swear on FMT. They tried everything to fix their gut but never had success. I mean diets, probiotics, prebiotics, antibiotics, herbs and all on planet. But they only healed after FMT. Unfortunately after some months or years the benefits seem to disappear in some cases.

I took the tyromix combo of T3 and T4 (2-1 ratio I think) and found it really good. I’ve tapered off it for the HCG protocol. My understanding is that taking 1-3 grain equivalent is about right but you would need to experiment, you get a mild beneficial suppression of TSH with those kind of doses.

 

[madis l]

What did you take for thyroid? I have most of the time low body temperature. Just got my TSH, ft3 and ft4 checked and all came back perfectly. But maybe trying t3 could help anyway?



So what about FMT? Maybe that could fix everything? I am in a FMT facebook group and there are many people swear on FMT. They tried everything to fix their gut but never had success. I mean diets, probiotics, prebiotics, antibiotics, herbs and all on planet. But they only healed after FMT. Unfortunately after some months or years the benefits seem to disappear in some cases.

Fecal transplant will only give you a temporarily boost but it won't cure a damaged gut micriobiome which's been ravaged by pathogens , you need a special therapy (which involve antibiotics ) depending on the type of parasites you've got.

 

[JoeKool]

On to week 5 as of today. big improvements with mental clarity. I included P5p like you suggested and upped my Vitamin D and it’s made a big difference. I don’t think Vitamin D should be overlooked in this protocol. I’m trying hard to manage my expectations but the improvements are real and far more consistent than anything else I’ve tried so far.

Erections and mood are slightly better but libido still isn’t great, I expect this could improve ‘if’ prolactin is the cause for this.

Yes! Some exciting signs and thank you for the D3 reminder. I do think it’s over looked so great info for everyone on hcg. It’s fairly inexpensive for 2000 to 5000iu a day and ensures the cholesterol is there for hormone creation. I’m psyched you’re seeing some good signs.

 

[Chriss]

I dont know if people have seen this already, but a doctor gave a PFS patient HCG treatment. The only differences is that its much higher doses and with a small dose of AI to really get the 5A-reductase to work. I think its kind off more risky, more stress for receptors and AI is kinda risky in itself. The patient experienced progress already within the first 2 weeks and it slowly and steadily became better and better. What is your take on this?
What do you think @JoeKool?
https://www.longdom.org/open-access...eview-of-the-literature-2472-1212-1000170.pdf
You find it under case:1 at page 3.