Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

JoeKool

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Omg YES @jinstewart yes yes yes! Oh I’m so glad to hear that!

Oh man slow & steady wins this race. I’m so psyched again for you and everyone. Thank you for supporting me and seeing I just wanted to be healed and get this out to everyone to put this behind us. I know it’s early but that’s a great sign already.

Many on here have been extremely cool and supportive of one another as well. Def a great thread for the history books.

@Jayvee 100% agree brother !
 

MichaelZurich

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Oct 10, 2020
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46
Hey @JoeKool !

Thank you a lot for your support! It means a lot to me!

Hey Joe, can I ask you one more thing? The doctor and the pharmacy didn‘t want to sell me additional needles, they say that there is a risk of an infection if I use the vial mor than once...

That is way i got 2 x 500 u.i. prescribed, do you think it is a big difference for the body if the dosage is 2 times 500 and not 3 times 250 per week? The doctor said that he actually wanted me to take 1000 once a week and that I shouldn‘t be concerned about the the split over the week.

What do you think?
 

madis l

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Aug 13, 2020
Messages
110
Hey @JoeKool !

Thank you a lot for your support! It means a lot to me!

Hey Joe, can I ask you one more thing? The doctor and the pharmacy didn‘t want to sell me additional needles, they say that there is a risk of an infection if I use the vial mor than once...

That is way i got 2 x 500 u.i. prescribed, do you think it is a big difference for the body if the dosage is 2 times 500 and not 3 times 250 per week? The doctor said that he actually wanted me to take 1000 once a week and that I shouldn‘t be concerned about the the split over the week.

What do you think?
Any update on your appointment with dr Zitzmann ?
 

Mister

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Aug 12, 2020
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105
Love the positive vibes form this thread. Thank god Helen from Hackstasis stays away from here and stays on his shitty forum.
 

John W

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Sep 11, 2020
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25
That's not true , pfs isn't a homogeneous group , you've got people dealing with low estrogen , others with estrogen dominance , people with hypogonadal T , others with T in the upper range , people with sexual sympthoms as their only issues , others only have cognitive or physical sympthoms , some with the full blown pfs ect .... , no correlation can be drawn as every case is different , in my opinion finasteride ( and other 5ar drugs ) was just a trigger , this condition can be triggered by anything that inhibits dht to a certain point and it hits everyone of us differently , if you take 1000mg of zinc per day ( natural 5ar inhibitor) you'd likely get the same effects you've got from 5ar drugs , our body/brain just can't handle the blockage of the 5ar enzyme for some unknown reasons .

please correct what isn’t true lad. I didn’t make any statements that all fin pfs is high estro, however almost ALL saw palmetto cases are. Quit attacking everything with this gut theory load and just let people have open discussion. People on other forums have been following your gut theory in circles for years now if you read em. Once they find one “pathogen” it’s on to the next pathogen and then their toxic in something else, blah blah - I just see it is a whirlpool of hell.
 

JoeKool

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@MichaelZurich i don’t want to contradict a doctor as I prefer ppl have someone helping and guiding through injections. I’m a big believer of the “slow & steady” and gently nudging the numbers over a long term. I also believe there is some malleability of the dosage. I liked my protocol since I liked the OFF day of Sunday. I also say it’s easier to go up in dose than down, as higher could trigger some Estrogen symptoms.

Is 500x2 that much dissimilar to 250x3 ? On paper, not really but, unfortunately, we just don’t know. I rather you have a doctor monitoring , etc & I don’t want him to get antagonistic that you’re listening to me over him. So far, the MWF & every other day has only what’s been tried and seeming beneficial but I truly don’t know.

Maybe give him another ask that you rather start lower and move up if necessary? We’re looking to nudge and replenish, not overwhelm (not that 500x2 is overwhelming but you get my thought process )
 

madis l

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Messages
110
please correct what isn’t true lad. I didn’t make any statements that all fin pfs is high estro, however almost ALL saw palmetto cases are. Quit attacking everything with this gut theory load and just let people have open discussion. People on other forums have been following your gut theory in circles for years now if you read em. Once they find one “pathogen” it’s on to the next pathogen and then their toxic in something else, blah blah - I just see it is a whirlpool of hell.
Pfs seem to be an umbrella term for a cascade of side effects caused by finasteride and other 5ar inhibitors , like i said it hit everyone of us differently and everyone of us has it's own shortages , perhabs the gut isn't the main culprit in your case but it may be for others , the gut micriobiome directly influence the neurosteroids in the brain through it's action on neurotransmitters ( 80% of the body's seretonin is produced by bacteria in the gut as well as 50% of the body's dopamine ) , so if your gut microbiome is imbalanced and loaded by bad bacteria (induced or exacerbated by finasteride use ) then your brain chemicals will be thrown out of whack
The Brain-Gut-Microbiome Axis
Neurotransmitter modulation by the gut microbiota

Several new studies have associated the gut micriobiome with many diseases ( autism , parkinson , diabete , hypogonadism , hormones imbalance , metabolic syndrome ect...) and the studies were conducted by some of the world's best scientists so it's not just a random guy on ray peat making things up

Gut Endotoxin Leading to a Decline IN Gonadal function (GELDING) - a novel theory for the development of late onset hypogonadism in obese men
The Influence of the Gut Microbiome on Host Metabolism Through the Regulation of Gut Hormone Release
Association Between Gut Microbiota and Autism Spectrum Disorder: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
Parkinson’s disease-associated alterations of the gut microbiome predict disease-relevant changes in metabolic functions
Gut microbiome studies reveal new bacterial links with diabetes

We've also got a few cases of finasteride users who either recovered or felt much better after a gut detox / anti parasites protocol suggesting the gut is directly involved in some pfs patients , pfs is just an umbrella term for different types of deficiencies triggered by finasteride , everyone's a unique case so we've got to be open minded and never rule out any possible hypothesis , especially if some patients have benefited from that approach .

Melcangi found that all the pfs patients present in the study had an imbalanced gut micriobiome , his next study will tell us more about the impact of finasteride on the gut-neurosteroids relationship .

Alterations of gut microbiota composition in post-finasteride patients: a pilot study
 
Last edited:

MichaelZurich

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
46
@MichaelZurich i don’t want to contradict a doctor as I prefer ppl have someone helping and guiding through injections. I’m a big believer of the “slow & steady” and gently nudging the numbers over a long term. I also believe there is some malleability of the dosage. I liked my protocol since I liked the OFF day of Sunday. I also say it’s easier to go up in dose than down, as higher could trigger some Estrogen symptoms.

Is 500x2 that much dissimilar to 250x3 ? On paper, not really but, unfortunately, we just don’t know. I rather you have a doctor monitoring , etc & I don’t want him to get antagonistic that you’re listening to me over him. So far, the MWF & every other day has only what’s been tried and seeming beneficial but I truly don’t know.

Maybe give him another ask that you rather start lower and move up if necessary? We’re looking to nudge and replenish, not overwhelm (not that 500x2 is overwhelming but you get my thought process )

Thank you Joe for getting back at me that fast. Kind Regards
 

gabe

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Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
22
Pfs seem to be an umbrella term for a cascade of side effects caused by finasteride and other 5ar inhibitors , like i said it hit everyone of us differently and everyone of us has it's own shortages , perhabs the gut isn't the main culprit in your case but it may be for others , the gut micriobiome directly influence the neurosteroids in the brain through it's action on neurotransmitters ( 80% of the body's seretonin is produced by bacteria in the gut as well as 50% of the body's dopamine ) , so if your gut microbiome is imbalanced and loaded by bad bacteria (induced or exacerbated by finasteride use ) then your brain chemicals will be thrown out of whack
The Brain-Gut-Microbiome Axis
Neurotransmitter modulation by the gut microbiota

Several new studies have associated the gut micriobiome with many diseases ( autism , parkinson , diabete , hypogonadism , hormones imbalance , metabolic syndrome ect...) and the studies were conducted by some of the world's best scientists so it's not just a random guy on ray peat making things up

Gut Endotoxin Leading to a Decline IN Gonadal function (GELDING) - a novel theory for the development of late onset hypogonadism in obese men
The Influence of the Gut Microbiome on Host Metabolism Through the Regulation of Gut Hormone Release
Association Between Gut Microbiota and Autism Spectrum Disorder: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
Parkinson’s disease-associated alterations of the gut microbiome predict disease-relevant changes in metabolic functions
Gut microbiome studies reveal new bacterial links with diabetes

We've also got a few cases of finasteride users who either recovered or felt much better after a gut detox / anti parasites protocol suggesting the gut is directly involved in some pfs patients , pfs is just an umbrella term for different types of deficiencies triggered by finasteride , everyone's a unique case so we've got to be open minded and never rule out any possible hypothesis , especially if some patients have benefited from that approach .

Melcangi found that all the pfs patients present in the study had an imbalanced gut micriobiome , his next study will tell us more about the impact of finasteride on the gut-neurosteroids relationship .

Alterations of gut microbiota composition in post-finasteride patients: a pilot study

I've been leading a very clean lifestyle for years now (i.e., grass-fed meats, non-GMO, gluten-free, etc.) -- Paleo-esque. There are moments when I'm not 100% on point but they are few-and-far-between. I've been intermittent fasting religiously for over 4 years now, but I have never done any water fast or other "cleanse" for long periods of time. With all that said, my brain-fog has only slightly improved. I'm curious if there are more aggressive strategies I could be following? Can you suggest a gut microbiota detox protocol?
 

John W

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
25
Pfs seem to be an umbrella term for a cascade of side effects caused by finasteride and other 5ar inhibitors , like i said it hit everyone of us differently and everyone of us has it's own shortages , perhabs the gut isn't the main culprit in your case but it may be for others , the gut micriobiome directly influence the neurosteroids in the brain through it's action on neurotransmitters ( 80% of the body's seretonin is produced by bacteria in the gut as well as 50% of the body's dopamine ) , so if your gut microbiome is imbalanced and loaded by bad bacteria (induced or exacerbated by finasteride use ) then your brain chemicals will be thrown out of whack
The Brain-Gut-Microbiome Axis
Neurotransmitter modulation by the gut microbiota

Several new studies have associated the gut micriobiome with many diseases ( autism , parkinson , diabete , hypogonadism , hormones imbalance , metabolic syndrome ect...) and the studies were conducted by some of the world's best scientists so it's not just a random guy on ray peat making things up

Gut Endotoxin Leading to a Decline IN Gonadal function (GELDING) - a novel theory for the development of late onset hypogonadism in obese men
The Influence of the Gut Microbiome on Host Metabolism Through the Regulation of Gut Hormone Release
Association Between Gut Microbiota and Autism Spectrum Disorder: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
Parkinson’s disease-associated alterations of the gut microbiome predict disease-relevant changes in metabolic functions
Gut microbiome studies reveal new bacterial links with diabetes

We've also got a few cases of finasteride users who either recovered or felt much better after a gut detox / anti parasites protocol suggesting the gut is directly involved in some pfs patients , pfs is just an umbrella term for different types of deficiencies triggered by finasteride , everyone's a unique case so we've got to be open minded and never rule out any possible hypothesis , especially if some patients have benefited from that approach .

Melcangi found that all the pfs patients present in the study had an imbalanced gut micriobiome , his next study will tell us more about the impact of finasteride on the gut-neurosteroids relationship .

Alterations of gut microbiota composition in post-finasteride patients: a pilot study

Mate, no one is saying gut isn’t important as a cog in the scheme. But the majority who focus singularly on gut never get anywhere. I’ve done plenty of reading. I’m also not lumping people into one category or umbrella, a man asked a question on how saw palmetto differed and I explained the mechanism of action. I’m highly more inclined to believe my low estrogen issues stem from its action as an AI versus the gut microbiome. Over going back and forth with you on it though. We all want the same thing here
 

madis l

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Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
110
I've been leading a very clean lifestyle for years now (i.e., grass-fed meats, non-GMO, gluten-free, etc.) -- Paleo-esque. There are moments when I'm not 100% on point but they are few-and-far-between. I've been intermittent fasting religiously for over 4 years now, but I have never done any water fast or other "cleanse" for long periods of time. With all that said, my brain-fog has only slightly improved. I'm curious if there are more aggressive strategies I could be following? Can you suggest a gut microbiota detox protocol?
Check a gastro infectious specialist , he'll make a diagnostic and you can start from there , i think it's very difficult to detox the gut microbiome if you don't know what's your issue is , diet isn't enough to make a shift in the gut micriobiome , you need something more aggresive , the two pfs guys who experienced a full recovery using that approach did a diagnostic and both tested positive for parasites
their story down below :

https://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=2359277#i
My (IHP) Full Sexual Recovery from PFS - Story and Regimen
 
Last edited:

madis l

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Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
110
Mate, no one is saying gut isn’t important as a cog in the scheme. But the majority who focus singularly on gut never get anywhere. I’ve done plenty of reading. I’m also not lumping people into one category or umbrella, a man asked a question on how saw palmetto differed and I explained the mechanism of action. I’m highly more inclined to believe my low estrogen issues stem from its action as an AI versus the gut microbiome. Over going back and forth with you on it though. We all want the same thing here
Read this study

Estrogen–gut microbiome axis: Physiological and clinical implications - ScienceDirect


"Disruption in the gut microbiome results in decreased circulating estrogens"


"Alterations in the estrobolome can drive estrogen-mediated pathologies"

another good article here : https://www.viome.com/blog/gut-imbalance-blame-your-hormonal-changes

"When our gut microbiome is healthy and balanced, the estrobolome can regulate the right level of estrogen within the body, but when imbalanced by inflammation – gut dysbiosis can drive the production of estrogen in either direction, disrupting the normal flow and leading to estrogen-related pathologies"
 

MichaelZurich

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Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
46
I've been leading a very clean lifestyle for years now (i.e., grass-fed meats, non-GMO, gluten-free, etc.) -- Paleo-esque. There are moments when I'm not 100% on point but they are few-and-far-between. I've been intermittent fasting religiously for over 4 years now, but I have never done any water fast or other "cleanse" for long periods of time. With all that said, my brain-fog has only slightly improved. I'm curious if there are more aggressive strategies I could be following? Can you suggest a gut microbiota detox protocol?
Hey gab, as far as I am concerned, there are quite a few protocols on the internet, I recently ordered a bunch of natural and over the counter supplements that together with the right diet (for a period of time) help to kill possible parasites or fungus. Try searching for gut cleansing protocols and you will find tons of it. But as @madis l said, I would also go and have your stool checked for serious parasites and such, and if everything turns out good, you still can run the natural cleansing programs. One that I found interesting included a full gut „wash-out“ followed by a green-juice fasting (parasites hate greens and need carbohydrates to survive) followed by a water fasting to starve them. Just as an example... Kind Regards
 
Last edited:

madis l

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Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
110
Hey gab, as far as I am concerned, there are quite a few protocols on the internet, I recently ordered a bunch of natural and over the counter supplements that together with the right diet (for a period of time) help to kill possible parasites or fungus. Try searching for gut cleansing protocols and you will find tons of it. Bit as @madis l said, I would also go and have your stool checked for serious parasites and such, and if everything turns out good, you still can run the natural cleansing programs. One that I found interesting included full gut „wash-out“ followed by a green-juice fasting (parasites hate greens and need carbohydrates to survive) followed by a water fasting to starve them. Just as an example... Kind Regards
Sounds like a good plan michael
 

gabe

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
22
Check a gastro infectious specialist , he'll make a diagnostic and you can start from there , i think it's very difficult to detox the gut microbiome if you don't know what's your issue is , diet isn't enough to make a shift in the gut micriobiome , you need something more aggresive , the two pfs guys who experienced a full recovery using that approach did a diagnostic and both tested positive for parasites
their story down below :

https://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=2359277#i
My (IHP) Full Sexual Recovery from PFS - Story and Regimen

Thanks for the heads-up! Besides the two recoveries in the link, have you tried this yourself or any version of it, and have you experienced any relief?
 

gabe

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
22
Hey gab, as far as I am concerned, there are quite a few protocols on the internet, I recently ordered a bunch of natural and over the counter supplements that together with the right diet (for a period of time) help to kill possible parasites or fungus. Try searching for gut cleansing protocols and you will find tons of it. But as @madis l said, I would also go and have your stool checked for serious parasites and such, and if everything turns out good, you still can run the natural cleansing programs. One that I found interesting included a full gut „wash-out“ followed by a green-juice fasting (parasites hate greens and need carbohydrates to survive) followed by a water fasting to starve them. Just as an example... Kind Regards

This is helpful, thanks! Did you experience any relief from any version of those protocols?
 
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