Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[JoeKool]

@Chriss yes you got it! We have that study somewhere on this monster thread and it helped support my own experience but I agree, adding an AI is yet another chemical with side effects plus we want some estrogen to let our body find its own balance. Remember hcg mimics Lh which is NOT foreign to our body so I like that point. You’re not really introducing something new to your body.

At the original dose of 250x3, it’s a safe nudging and replenishment of the needed downstream hormones but that study does show the safety of hcg and proves that this concept isn’t far fetched. (I think we’re beyond that at this point and the evidence is piling up in favor of hcg’s efficacy for pfs)

And you’ve probably heard me say it, it’s easier to go up in dose than down. Another point to say, it’s easier to go longer than have to cut short.

search for @Mister posts with links to leolongevity (I’m butchering that but you’ll find it). It’s another discussion of long term hcg and how short term ‘bodybuilder’ use of hcg doesn’t address neurosteroids.

 

[Unknownuser]

I took the tyromix combo of T3 and T4 (2-1 ratio I think) and found it really good. I’ve tapered off it for the HCG protocol. My understanding is that taking 1-3 grain equivalent is about right but you would need to experiment, you get a mild beneficial suppression of TSH with those kind of doses.

I am just worried to lose even more weight.

Fecal transplant will only give you a temporarily boost but it won't cure a damaged gut micriobiome which's been ravaged by pathogens , you need a special therapy (which involve antibiotics ) depending on the type of parasites you've got.

As much as I know they do antibiotics to kill everything and then do fmt.

How do we know if the leydig cells got desensitized? In the first 8-9 weeks I had the feeling that HCG works. I gained muscles out of nowhere and had random boners in the bus or at the beach. But then it stopped. I started losing all the muscles and lost all desire and random boners and the androgen feeling has gone. Or taking dhea and preg interrupted the progress.

 

[Jayvee]

I am just worried to lose even more weight.



As much as I know they do antibiotics to kill everything and then do fmt.

How do we know if the leydig cells got desensitized? In the first 8-9 weeks I had the feeling that HCG works. I gained muscles out of nowhere and had random boners in the bus or at the beach. But then it stopped. I started losing all the muscles and lost all desire and random boners and the androgen feeling has gone. Or taking dhea and preg interrupted the progress.

I’ve heard of someone doing a DIY FMT with PFS (Really don’t even consider this!) they got some good results, never followed up to see if it had lasting results but couldn’t see why not.

I enquired about it before and it costs 1000’s to get done professionally. They told me that part of the treatment would involve a Strong course of antibiotics.

Are you underweight? Maybe you need to change your diet. Did you change anything for HCG to stop working? Are you consuming enough calories? I would think this would need to be upped more than usual. I’m having to eat more anyway otherwise my body gets cold very quickly. (That could easily be because it’s winter though)

 

[gabe]

@gabe you mentioned you had a couple better nights of sleep and a slight improvement in mental state, is this your 4th week? Are you planning on staying on trt cream?

Coming up on week 3 on Friday. I don't have a problem falling asleep, it's staying asleep, and REM. I'm experiencing noticeable improvement in deep sleep, and I'm waking up less in the middle of the night. I have noticed a slight bump in mental clarity. It's barely detectable. But if I settle my mind and stay in the moment I notice there is that small improvement.

I've been on TRT cream for 1.5 years and have realized tremendous benefits (see my previous posts). It's a life-long commitment and I have no intention of dropping it from my protocol. My labs are all "normal" in the context of someone using exogenous T, so I can potentially try to tweak my dosage even higher (as an optional approach) at some point to see if I can reap additional benefits from higher T levels both total and free. hCG should boost my levels even higher so I'm excited to see what's to come. Will keep everyone posted!

EDIT: I forgot to mention I'm also seeing improvements in fatigue during midday (3PM slump) and a bit more energy.

 

[Chriss]

I am just worried to lose even more weight.



As much as I know they do antibiotics to kill everything and then do fmt.

How do we know if the leydig cells got desensitized? In the first 8-9 weeks I had the feeling that HCG works. I gained muscles out of nowhere and had random boners in the bus or at the beach. But then it stopped. I started losing all the muscles and lost all desire and random boners and the androgen feeling has gone. Or taking dhea and preg interrupted the progress.

If i remember right you lost progress when you added the dhea because of your anxiety? Maybe if you take a a little break from everything, and «cleanse» yourself. Begin with hcg again when you feel for it and dont do anything else. You had a lot of progress with it until you used Dhea. Thats my take on in it

Iknow it ofc can be hard, but we need to do a bit fighting before we can recover. Iknow you can do this lad!

 

[Enzote2]

So who is only using hCG, Vitamin D3 and Glycine combo?

@JoeKool how much Glycine and Vit D3 were you taking during your run?

 

[Unknownuser]

I’ve heard of someone doing a DIY FMT with PFS (Really don’t even consider this!) they got some good results, never followed up to see if it had lasting results but couldn’t see why not.

I enquired about it before and it costs 1000’s to get done professionally. They told me that part of the treatment would involve a Strong course of antibiotics.

Are you underweight? Maybe you need to change your diet. Did you change anything for HCG to stop working? Are you consuming enough calories? I would think this would need to be upped more than usual. I’m having to eat more anyway otherwise my body gets cold very quickly. (That could easily be because it’s winter though)

I read about diy fmts but ı dont know a donor and also there is lots of testing etc. I have gut issues since I am 16 due to accutane use. But accutane did not affect my libido I think. Hard to tell, it's been 25 years pre accutane.

I was normal weighted but lost and lose more and more weight and dont know why. Sure my pancreas does not produce enzymes for 8 years now. But yet ı was able to regain weight with external enzymes and betain HCL. I know that there is a hcg diet. But I think they use higher doses.

I did only add dhea and preg but did not change anything else. I am pretty depressed and have bad mood again for couple weeks now, wich might have an impact on appetite and weight.

I tried Hydrocortisone 2 weeks ago (15mg) and had great success. Libido was very good for 2-3 days and depression was blown away. I had incredible energy and great mood, great brain functions etc. But am too afraid of using Hydrocortisone for a long period.

But back in Germany I will do a 24h cortison check. I suspect adrenal fatigue as ı mentioned. That's why dhea and preg help me so much. And since I added adrenal glandular 5 days ago, I have more energy through the day.

 

[Mister]

I didn't know the importance of vitamine D before...

So, vitamin D can impact your parathyroid hormones, but what about a hormone that’s slightly better known, like testosterone? Well, as it turns out, studies have found that an adequate level of vitamin D is actually pretty important for regulating this crucial sex hormone.


This is because vitamin D deficiencies have been linked to lower levels of testosterone in men. In one study, 65 participants were organised into two groups. The first group was required to take a high strength vitamin D supplement every day, over the course of a year, compared to the control group which did not engage in this practice. At the end of the trial, the vitamin D group found that their testosterone levels had increased by 20%.1

How does vitamin D affect your hormones?

 

[gabe]

So who is only using hCG, Vitamin D3 and Glycine combo?

@JoeKool how much Glycine and Vit D3 were you taking during your run?

I'm taking 5000 IUs D3 + 180 mcg of K-2 (MK-7) ED <--- K-2 supports calcium metabolism in blood vessels, calcium buildup is a side-effect of taking too much vitamin D. It's an important combo IMO

I was also taking upwards of 4 grams of Glycine each night but really didn't notice any noticeable benefits so I stopped taking it.

 

[MichaelZurich]

Sorry I mixed it up with Zyrtec / cetrizine. But cypro seems also be an serotonine antagonist.

Hey, since I am also struggling with muscle sores and nerve pain and such... I just saw that you wrote something about Zyrtec and I remember that I had to take that almost my whole childhood. Are you seeing some kind of conection to it?

 

[stopfin]

very seldom to read about nerve pain in connection with pfs, I have that as well, but neither doc could figure out what it is. nerves work properly, no RLS, neurologist said maybe psychosomatic
I don't have any clue what could be the reason for it

edit: never took any meds beside fin

 

[MichaelZurich]

very seldom to read about nerve pain in connection with pfs, I have that as well, but neither doc could figure out what it is. nerves work properly, no RLS, neurologist said maybe psychosomatic
I don't have any clue what could be the reason for it

edit: never took any meds beside fin

So it actually doesen’t seem to be that seldom if we are already 4 guys with it in this thread only, right?

 

[Unknownuser]

Hey, since I am also struggling with muscle sores and nerve pain and such... I just saw that you wrote something about Zyrtec and I remember that I had to take that almost my whole childhood. Are you seeing some kind of conection to it?

I really dont know. I only know people report they feel like zombies on Zyrtec. It's a gen 2 antihistamine so it's not as harmful (if any) as 1st gen. 1st gen is called to probably cause dementia and mental issues of taken too long.

I guess if you used Zyrtec you had/have allergies. Did u had a small or bigger trauma after finasteride? I remembered yesterday again, after accutane with 17 years ı was doing good but with 20 I had a operation under full anesthetic. Next day I had huuuge hair loss that never stopped and my sides got worse. Finasteride ı stopped with 25. Besides loss of libido I was okish. With 30 I had a mayor trauma and all hell started then. I read it on other places, people saying their fin sides started or got worse after a trauma.

What I want to ask, I want to do TRT. Not mainly because of pfs. But I want to gain muscles and strength. I hear some people say it's ok to stay on hcg while on trt while others say your LC can get desentisized when use both. Anybody here know more? I dont care about feritily or testicular size. I would prefer to start hcg if I decide to stop trt one day and do a PCT. If I do hcg on Friday for the last time and start trt on monday, is it ok to get of hcg cold turkey and start trt?

Edit: I got part of my blood results back. SHBG and free T will follow next week. So I have very low FSH and very low LH. Is that common with the use of HCG?

 

[JoeKool]

@Unknownuser Did you ever test your HCG to ensure it was real? I'm not sure why it looks like that in your bloodwork but I'm not a doctor. Very odd at first glance to me

I want to preface a response regarding trt. Understand that when ppl refer to trt, they're typically saying it's for life. The conventional wisdom right now is, Doctor's will ask questions about your fertility plans and base HCG use on that factor alone. This appears to be changing as ppl realize that HCG, and LH, is responsible for more than just testosterone production.

Once on trt long enough, i know you mentioned you didn't care of testicular size, but I'm saying LH is responsible for much more and when your shutdown occurs, the neurosteroids will begin to diminish as well. One of the tests a doctor gives to narrow down hormone Issues is hcg. If your testosterone doesn't increase on hcg, then doctors assume there's something damaged in the testicles.

If you had low LH and hcg boosted testosterone, then the doctor focuses up at your pituitary gland since hcg proved your testicular function.

I'm not a doctor but I would work with one nearby you.

 

[Unknownuser]

@JoeKool Yes I did the pregnancy test with my HCG and it was positive.

I am trying to research why my LH and FSH is so super low. I always suspected that in 2012, where I had that trauma and crash, something in my brain got shut down/broken. Something that signals my body to produce digestive enzymes, stomach acid and hormones. Thats why dhea and preg give me so much relief I guess because my adrenals do not produce these in needed amounts. Probably cortisol as well, wich might explain why I got so much inflammation inside my body after the crash. Unfortunately the doctors never checked for pituitary gland or hypothalamus or FSH and LH.

TRT aside, I wonder if HCG drops the own LH and FSH production of the body? Other than that, I read that DHEA can drop FSH. But I am shocked by these low levels. I wonder if a PCT can restart my HPTA axis? I think I have to start a thread on a bodybuilding forum.

I dont know how much influence the time of the day has on these values but I took Dhea and Preg, had a breakfast and did the blood test 2 hours later today.

You think higher doses of HCG can upregulate my LH and FSH? I feel helpless currently and it will be very difficult to see a doctor at the moment. Especially because I dont trust them anymore. The last 8 years they were not even once a help.

 

[MichaelZurich]

@Unknownuser @JoeKool
A friend send me this study: Differential Effect of Single High Dose and Divided small Dose Administration of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin on Leydig Cell Steroidogenic Desensitization *

It answered my question regarding desensitation of the leydig cells. So I think low dose hCG is one more time the answer.

 

[markitow]

@JoeKool @Unknownuser

hey guys, lurker here, read most of the thread, thinking of going into HCG myself but still not decided because I'm a relatively mild case (worst symptoms right now are libido and sleep, other stuff is mostly fine)

Any way I felt I needed to sign up just to answer this stuff cause I can't believe you are going into this blind without even knowing how the stuff works.
HCG SUPRESSES you, same as injecting testosterone. When you inject exogenous LH (ie HCG), your OWN production SHUTS DOWN. That's why it's low in your blood test. Now if it was already low before using HCG I do not know, but there's NO way it's going to be high on HCG, it will be almost zero on the stuff. Once stopping it will go up again, assumedly to your previous level before using it.

 

[MichaelZurich]

@JoeKool @Unknownuser

hey guys, lurker here, read most of the thread, thinking of going into HCG myself but still not decided because I'm a relatively mild case (worst symptoms right now are libido and sleep, other stuff is mostly fine)

Any way I felt I needed to sign up just to answer this stuff cause I can't believe you are going into this blind without even knowing how the stuff works.
HCG SUPRESSES you, same as injecting testosterone. When you inject exogenous LH (ie HCG), your OWN production SHUTS DOWN. That's why it's low in your blood test. Now if it was already low before using HCG I do not know, but there's NO way it's going to be high on HCG, it will be almost zero on the stuff. Once stopping it will go up again, assumedly to your previous level before using it.

Hey markitow, I think we are aware of that. I think the question we are asking ourselves is whether it goes back to baseline after we stop hCG or whether desensitation causes a drop in natural LH after the use of hCG.

 

[markitow]

Hey markitow, I think we are aware of that. I think the question we are asking ourselves is whether it goes back to baseline after we stop hCG or whether desensitation causes a drop in natural LH after the use of hCG.

I don't think they are aware of that if you read the previous posts. Unkownuser uploaded blood tests and said "I have very low FSH and very low LH. Is that common with the use of HCG?"

He asked it so he didn't know.

Now regarding if LH returns to baseline, above it, or below it, I've got the same doubts.

 

[JoeKool]

I guess decorum is dead

So I wouldn't say we're blind and don't know how this stuff works, as you're here reading my stuff.

Early on in the thread, i said there'd be a brief period post cessation that things have to start up again on their own.

My reply above was two concerns in one. Unfortunately, unknownuser isn't strictly pfs so i was hoping he'd get further care from a doctor. Even still, i wouldn't expect bloodwork to show extremely low LH numbers at this dose and sporadic use, MWF. Maybe so