Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[Unknownuser]

@JoeKool @Unknownuser

hey guys, lurker here, read most of the thread, thinking of going into HCG myself but still not decided because I'm a relatively mild case (worst symptoms right now are libido and sleep, other stuff is mostly fine)

Any way I felt I needed to sign up just to answer this stuff cause I can't believe you are going into this blind without even knowing how the stuff works.
HCG SUPRESSES you, same as injecting testosterone. When you inject exogenous LH (ie HCG), your OWN production SHUTS DOWN. That's why it's low in your blood test. Now if it was already low before using HCG I do not know, but there's NO way it's going to be high on HCG, it will be almost zero on the stuff. Once stopping it will go up again, assumedly to your previous level before using it.

Thats what I thought but was not sure about. Thank you for clarify. So I can relax a bit. I thought I might have a tumor or something in my pituitary gland.

EDIT: Is it possible that 250 ui EOD does not stimulate as much hormone production as my own LH pre HCG?

 

[markitow]

I guess decorum is dead

So I wouldn't say we're blind and don't know how this stuff works, as you're here reading my stuff.

Early on in the thread, i said there'd be a brief period post cessation that things have to start up again on their own.

My reply above was two concerns in one. Unfortunately, unknownuser isn't strictly pfs so i was hoping he'd get further care from a doctor. Even still, i wouldn't expect bloodwork to show extremely low LH numbers at this dose and sporadic use, MWF. Maybe so

Hey, I'm not attacking you in any way, sorry if it read that way. But it was clear to me that Uknownuser levels were low because of exogenous LH, which was to be expected. And then you aswer to him that it shouldn't be that way, that's why I tagged both of you. If I know so much about this is only thanks to you because this seems like the most sensible way to recover and I researched a lot since then.

Still I'm scared to use it, I mean no normal person should touch this stuff ever. If we even consider using this is because we are desperate enough. But I guess no normal person should touch finasteride as well and it's sadly too late for that in our case.

 

[markitow]

Thats what I thought but was not sure about. Thank you for clarify. So I can relax a bit. I thought I might have a tumor or something in my pituitary gland.

EDIT: Is it possible that 250 ui EOD does not stimulate as much hormone production as my own LH pre HCG?

I don't know, I've been looking for injected HCG and natural LH equivalence forever and I can't find anything on the internet. Normal LH levels go from 1 up to 10 (aprox.), the question is where does 250 iu fall into.

I myself got a level of 2.2 lh which seems kinda low, I really think HCG would in theory benefit me. However I took those tests like a year ago, I should really get some new ones.

 

[MichaelZurich]

I don't think they are aware of that if you read the previous posts. Unkownuser uploaded blood tests and said "I have very low FSH and very low LH. Is that common with the use of HCG?"

He asked it so he didn't know.

Now regarding if LH returns to baseline, above it, or below it, I've got the same doubts.

Nevertheless I think it is still important to stay respectful and not calling someone
„blind“. We are all in this together brother and try to help and support each other.

 

[markitow]

Nevertheless I think it is still important to stay respectful and not calling someone
„blind“. We are all in this together brother and try to help and support each other.

I didn't call them blind, I said "going into this blind" which is an expression. Like for example, I never did drugs. If I pop lsd right now I'd be goin into it blind because I don't know how it works and what it does to the body.

I didn't meant it as an insult I'm sorry if someone interpreted it that way. I just wanted to make sure they knew that hcg is suppresive and that's why your own LH will be low while on it

 

[Unknownuser]

I don't know, I've been looking for injected HCG and natural LH equivalence forever and I can't find anything on the internet. Normal LH levels go from 1 up to 10 (aprox.), the question is where does 250 iu fall into.

I myself got a level of 2.2 lh which seems kinda low, I really think HCG would in theory benefit me. However I took those tests like a year ago, I should really get some new ones.

This was posted on page 48 of this thread where the doc has the pfs patient on 5000 ui HCG a week. And he is still on that dose. Thats why I asked if 750 ui a week is maybe, at least in some cases, lesser than the own LH production. I know its a safe dose to prevent desensitization as Michael posted that link and Joe mentions as well. But I think I asked this in the beginning of my first replies in this thread, does 250 ui mimic the same amount as our own production? If its less, how do we benefit from this dose? Or should only people with low LH do HCG? I mean I did not check my LH before. Maybe it was at 9 and with 250 ui it is now equal to 3 or 4. Its all guessing, I just want to explain what I mean.

Hopefully own production kicks back in after stopping HCG. Considering get off soon. Should I wean it off? Or quit cold Turkey?

 

[markitow]

This was posted on page 48 of this thread where the doc has the pfs patient on 5000 ui HCG a week. And he is still on that dose. Thats why I asked if 750 ui a week is maybe, at least in some cases, lesser than the own LH production. I know its a safe dose to prevent desensitization as Michael posted that link and Joe mentions as well. But I think I asked this in the beginning of my first replies in this thread, does 250 ui mimic the same amount as our own production? If its less, how do we benefit from this dose? Or should only people with low LH do HCG? I mean I did not check my LH before. Maybe it was at 9 and with 250 ui it is now equal to 3 or 4. Its all guessing, I just want to explain what I mean.

Hopefully own production kicks back in after stopping HCG. Considering get off soon. Should I wean it off? Or quit cold Turkey?

Well according to the study of the europe doctor that describes androversion, if people stopped hcg and the testosterone they got after was better than baseline, we can assume that maybe LH will be better as well. However that doctor used like 10000 iu a week which seems crazy. But he was treating people with hypogonadism and low testosterone so that's different.

Also regarding that study of the 2 patients with pfs, I wouldn't pay much attention to it. It seems promising, but first of all the doses are much higher than 250 iu and I agree with Joe that people should start slow, plus they use AI's and other stuff. Second of all, the guy participating in that study posted some weeks ago on propeciahelp that he was far from cured and he is using testosterone now as well as hcg. If you search on propecia help looking for that study that thread were he commented will pop up.
Lastly the doctors in that study released a statement in 2019 declaring that NONE of their pfs patients ever recovered neurological function. I need to look it up and then I'll link it. Give me a few minutes.

EDIT: here it is, it's in spanish but you can use google translate. Check page 31 of the pdf.
http://www.saa.org.ar/congreso2019/libroCongresoSAA2019.pdf
the important bit is "El 100% de los pacientes, a la fecha, persiste sin resolver los síntomas ad integrum"

100% of patients, up to this moment, remain without solving their symtoms

 

[JoeKool]

@markitow i appreciate the replies. From my own experience, i continue to stay healthy and have no neuro symptoms even after so much time off. Muscle growth is actually rekindled too, indicating healthy hormones for my age.

I have not taken anything hormonal since my last hcg shot to ensure I don't need a crutch to stay healthy. Aminos and caffeine for sure though.

To me, i think you'll find more and more use cases for hcg therapy sooner than later, and I'm a strong believer of its safety. I think peyronies sufferers will benefit too but that's speculation based on my pfs genital recovery.

Deeply appreciate the support from everyone.

 

[markitow]

@markitow i appreciate the replies. From my own experience, i continue to stay healthy and have no neuro symptoms even after so much time off. Muscle growth is actually rekindled too, indicating healthy hormones for my age.

I have not taken anything hormonal since my last hcg shot to ensure I don't need a crutch to stay healthy. Aminos and caffeine for sure though.

To me, i think you'll find more and more use cases for hcg therapy sooner than later, and I'm a strong believer of its safety. I think peyronies sufferers will benefit too but that's speculation based on my pfs genital recovery.

Deeply appreciate the support from everyone.

Yes, from all the recoveries claimed by people over the years, yours make the most sense and the most promising. Maybe it's the dose? Just pointing up that if people have their hopes up because of THAT study in particular, they should know that the same doctors that carried it out claim that none of their patients recovered. And the patient that was receiving hcg commented on propecia help saying the same thing.

But like I said maybe the key is the low dose, to mimic's one own lh production. Even boydbuilders recommend the same low dose to restart systems. I don't know why doctors aim for such a high dose, it doesn't seem as necesary (maybe only if you are REALLY hypogonadal and have low test). But it also carries the risk of desensitization at such a high dose, long term. So maybe that's why they don't get cured, because they are doing more damage than good.


Also another thing worth mentioning, some people claim to get cured with CDnuts protocol, which I also find interesting. But you wanna know what I find most interesting about it specifically? Cold showers. I looked up what cold showers do to your body, and they supposedly raise LH. So everything points in the same direction lh/hcg being the key.

 

[Unknownuser]

Oh thats good (or bad) to know that the mentioned patient did not recover. I still have this believe in my mind that we need very high Testosterone peaks to restimulate (or bomb) receptors. Thats the case in Pals Proviron recovery but with DHT receptors. One user on another forum recovered with Pals Proviron therapy followed by HCG (RebelWithACause).

Here with very high T doses and then a PCT. Also here they talking about TRT to recover from PSSD. There are couple full recovery stories that give hope. I read couple recoveries with T3, for example this one. Post accutane syndrome users recovered with Rick Simpson Oil (wich is hard to get I guess). I think we still have many things to try before giving up.

 

[markitow]

Oh thats good (or bad) to know that the mentioned patient did not recover. I still have this believe in my mind that we need very high Testosterone peaks to restimulate (or bomb) receptors. Thats the case in Pals Proviron recovery but with DHT receptors. Here with very high T doses and then a PCT. Also here they talking about TRT to recover from PSSD. There are couple full recovery stories that give hope. I read couple recoveries with T3, for example this one. Post accutane syndrome users recovered with Rick Simpson Oil (wich is hard to get I guess). I think we still have many things to try before giving up.

I'm not gonna talk about receptors because I don't know much about it. I know that there are some theories that say they get upregulated or downregulated but I don't know how that gets fixed via trt or hcg or whatever. The important thing is that people recover, via different methods. So it's definitely possible.

However one should have expectations according to their bodies. Let's say for example that I get pfs when I'm 18 years old and then at 55 years old I start a recovery protocol. You shouldn't expect to feel like you are 18 because in those years you'd have lost libido anyway, with finasteride or not. So if you have such a high expectation you'll never feel cured.

EDIT: also I don't think it's a really good idea to go on T unless you are low T to begin with. And NEVER without HCG. People that just use T but no HCG, are missing on a lot of hormones.

 

[Unknownuser]

However one should have expectations according to their bodies. Let's say for example that I get pfs when I'm 18 years old and then at 55 years old I start a recovery protocol. You shouldn't expect to feel like you are 18 because in those years you'd have lost libido anyway, with finasteride or not. So if you have such a high expectation you'll never feel cured.

Absolutely. But I had days with normal libido. The last time was 2 weeks ago when I took hydrocortisone. It felt just incredible. To the point I had to fight to not masturbate and was sitting on the couch with a constant boner for an hour and could not stop sexual thoughts. So its a teaser of how it should feel normally in this age. While on the no libido days, I force my self to masturbate, just to masturbate. I was on no fap for 2 years but gave that up a month ago or so...

 

[markitow]

I'm not gonna talk about receptors because I don't know much about it. I know that there are some theories that say they get upregulated or downregulated but I don't know how that gets fixed via trt or hcg or whatever. The important thing is that people recover, via different methods. So it's definitely possible.

However one should have expectations according to their bodies. Let's say for example that I get pfs when I'm 18 years old and then at 55 years old I start a recovery protocol. You shouldn't expect to feel like you are 18 because in those years you'd have lost libido anyway, with finasteride or not. So if you have such a high expectation you'll never feel cured.

Absolutely. But I had days with normal libido. The last time was 2 weeks ago when I took hydrocortisone. It felt just incredible. To the point I had to fight to not masturbate and was sitting on the couch with a constant boner for an hour and could not stop sexual thoughts. So its a teaser of how it should feel normally in this age. While on the no libido days, I force my self to masturbate, just to masturbate. I was on no fap for 2 years but gave that up a month ago or so...

Sounds like me, except that I stopped fin 1 year ago and I have had zero urges since. And I went on a 6 month no fap easy mode. But besides that my **** works fine, mostly. Still haven't tried anything thoug, except vit D cause I was deficient.

 

[Vicecaz]

@Unknownuser To be fair, Rebelwithacause is not cured and said so himself a few weeks ago. He did go through a Proviron cycle and a short HCG protocol but didn't undergo the HCG protocol as per Joe's protocol and admitted it himself. He was following another protocol the last time I checked.

I'm PAS and the first thing I tried was this RSO rick Simpson oil, for 6 months. Unfortunately, I didn't improve a thing in my case.

That's for the negative/ realistic notes.
On a positive note, I have to agree with @markitow that there's a lot of stuff on CDnuts protocol that increases LH. Didn't know about cold showers but if I'm not mistaken, both Cistanche and Cordyceps, part of his protocol, have been proved to increase LH. CD's protocol is the best thing I've tried so far, though I'm far from being cured.
Not to sound like a broken disk, but the best I've felt PAS, even though it was temporary, was from a short 5 days cycle of Cistanche tweaking his protocol a bit.

It might not be related at all with Joe's theory, though, as Joe thinks that improvements will appear upon self-regulation of neurosteroids, with time. Which would not explain such short term benefits of Cistanche. Not to mention that Cistanche does not only affect LH but impacts several different things. Just speculating and I doubt that Cistanche is remotely close to being enough for a full recovery.


Back to topic:
My HCG is supposed to arrive between the 11th and the 21st. Can't wait to start

 

[MichaelZurich]

How about the people that actually are on the protocol since summer? I unfortunately don‘t remember their usernames.

 

[Jayvee]

How about the people that actually are on the protocol since summer? I unfortunately don‘t remember their usernames.

I think @newyorker and @sladerunner69 are two that I know of who we’re getting on well with the protocol.

 

[Chapman]

@JoeKool Had my fourth injection yesterday not felt anything yet but its very early. Hoping for the best. I'm taking the support supps as well. What's your opinion on adding AlCAR as well to increase androgen receptors?

 

[Jayvee]

I feel I need to add some observational feedback after week 5 as I have seen a few people saying they are due to start it.

- Vitamin D and K have made a big difference
- I have either skipped a dose or decreased it on days where I feel a bit ‘off’ or stress is higher
- staying calm and relaxed I think is very important whilst doing this
- I have needed to drink more water and eat more calories otherwise I would feel crappy (this does speed up metabolism)
- some days I have avoided coffee
- I have added B6 as some symptoms were creeping in that were reminiscent of when I had high prolactin
- Glycine could be important ( I think most PFS sufferers have at least tried this to no major effect) but my body is responding very slightly differently to it
- my digestion got slightly worse and have switched to eat primarily protein and fat at night (You will need to try find what works for you)
- I have added Q10 (an expensive purer one)
- I have dropped Vitamin E but I want to do more research on this
- I have needed more electrolytes from needing to drink more water
- small amount of weight training has helped but careful not to overdue (Keep stress hormones in check!)
- maybe stimulating your own LH production on none injection days is important? (No idea)

Positives: I’m more able to remain level headed, erections have been better (but sex hasn’t for most of it), feel androgenic on ‘good’ days, mood is mostly better, also I have a creative job and my creativity has increased (which to me is a really good sign).

negatives: stiffness, aching weird sensation at the back of my head has been exacerbated slightly, I don’t feel myself (even on some of my good days), Bruising and aching from injection areas, my libido has dipped more on ‘Off’ days, (I need to figure what is the cause of My off days)

 

[MichaelZurich]

I feel I need to add some observational feedback after week 5 as I have seen a few people saying they are due to start it.

- Vitamin D and K have made a big difference
- I have either skipped a dose or decreased it on days where I feel a bit ‘off’ or stress is higher
- staying calm and relaxed I think is very important whilst doing this
- I have needed to drink more water and eat more calories otherwise I would feel crappy (this does speed up metabolism)
- some days I have avoided coffee
- I have added B6 as some symptoms were creeping in that were reminiscent of when I had high prolactin
- Glycine could be important ( I think most PFS sufferers have at least tried this to no major effect) but my body is responding very slightly differently to it
- my digestion got slightly worse and have switched to eat primarily protein and fat at night (You will need to try find what works for you)
- I have added Q10 (an expensive purer one)
- I have dropped Vitamin E but I want to do more research on this
- I have needed more electrolytes from needing to drink more water
- small amount of weight training has helped but careful not to overdue (Keep stress hormones in check!)
- maybe stimulating your own LH production on none injection days is important? (No idea)

Positives: I’m more able to remain level headed, erections have been better (but sex hasn’t for most of it), feel androgenic on ‘good’ days, mood is mostly better, also I have a creative job and my creativity has increased (which to me is a really good sign).

negatives: stiffness, aching weird sensation at the back of my head has been exacerbated slightly, I don’t feel myself (even on some of my good days), Bruising and aching from injection areas, my libido has dipped more on ‘Off’ days, (I need to figure what is the cause of My off days)

Hey Jayvee! I am glad to hear you are making improvements! Focus on the positive things, remember: since improvements are slow, you might overlook some after time goes by :) Thank you for the tipps!
Can I ask you what you mean by „I don‘t feel myself?“ would you relate it to hCG?

 

[Jayvee]

Hey Jayvee! I am glad to hear you are making improvements! Focus on the positive things, remember: since improvements are slow, you might overlook some after time goes by :) Thank you for the tipps!
Can I ask you what you mean by „I don‘t feel myself?“ would you relate it to hCG?

So my mood is up but I still have that weird brain fog and the not ‘in the moment’ sensation... it’s really hard to know what is causing it, HCG has such a vast effect on the body it could be anything.

I am having strong spells of ‘clarity’ though so it doesn’t concern me too much.