Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[Jayvee]

Interesting study , however 1 week is a short amount of time , think they should've done it over an extended period , How do you plan to use it ?

On another note boron seems to possess many antibacterials properties (exhibed at high doses ) , it could've played a part in your temporary recovery

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271910429_Antimicrobial_Properties_of_Boron_Derivatives
Discovery of a Novel Class of Boron-Based Antibacterials with Activity against Gram-Negative Bacteria
Antibacterial and Antibiofilm Effects of Boron on Different Bacteria

I think Boron’s other benefits are more likely what’s helping especially when most people lack Boron. SHBG is often seen as the enemy a lot of the time and whilst it’s not a good sign having raised SHBG, I think I’m the case of PFS it could be there to help (even though it could have a big role in causing the symptoms) and you aren’t necessarily battling the route cause. That’s what I have found anyway. maybe using Boron in some kind of a stack might be more beneficial. Also I was never sure on how well it is absorbed as a supplement as it made little to no difference for me, so perhaps a good source that agrees with you might be better.

 

[Unknownuser]

Interesting study , however 1 week is a short amount of time , think they should've done it over an extended period , How do you plan to use it ?

On another note boron seems to possess many antibacterials properties (exhibed at high doses ) , it could've played a part in your temporary recovery

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271910429_Antimicrobial_Properties_of_Boron_Derivatives
Discovery of a Novel Class of Boron-Based Antibacterials with Activity against Gram-Negative Bacteria
Antibacterial and Antibiofilm Effects of Boron on Different Bacteria

Yes you are right. Back 3 years ago I had heavy candida. Every morning my tongue was white. That was gone with Boron within a short time and never came back. That played a huge role. Maybe it regrowed inside my gut and I have to clean it up with borax again. I put about 200-300mg a day in my drinking bottle. I dont remember how I did it back then.

I have my test results back. On another test Prolactin was low and Thyroid pretty good. DHT was very high in an older test last year. Is my SHBG too high and Free T not high enough?

 

[madis l]

I think Boron’s other benefits are more likely what’s helping especially when most people lack Boron. SHBG is often seen as the enemy a lot of the time and whilst it’s not a good sign having raised SHBG, I think I’m the case of PFS it could be there to help (even though it could have a big role in causing the symptoms) and you aren’t necessarily battling the route cause. That’s what I have found anyway. maybe using Boron in some kind of a stack might be more beneficial. Also I was never sure on how well it is absorbed as a supplement as it made little to no difference for me, so perhaps a good source that agrees with you might be better.

I think it's anti-bacterials mechanism of action is underrated

 

[madis l]

Yes you are right. Back 3 years ago I had heavy candida. Every morning my tongue was white. That was gone with Boron within a short time and never came back. That played a huge role. Maybe it regrowed inside my gut and I have to clean it up with borax again. I put about 200-300mg a day in my drinking bottle. I dont remember how I did it back then.

I have my test results back. On another test Prolactin was low and Thyroid pretty good. DHT was very high in an older test last year. Is my SHBG too high and Free T not high enough?

Were you on hcg during the test ? your shbg is in normal range and your free t sounds good but there's still room for improvements

 

[Mister]

After some time I thought about checking propeciahelp again...

One of the things I first read;

Rb26dett
"don’t believe in @pal story.
You are too gullible and naive.
That guy is clearly a member who joined the forum with a VPN and made up this story to get the naïve to test his theory. It doesn’t take long to figure it out."

The conspiracy theories and doom and gloom thinking is still alive and well over there. Feel sorry for the guy he seems one if not the worst case of PFS I have seen yet though, no wonder he became irrational. Same with vkg1 constant doom posting. Mods letting pessimism grow there and banning users who want to do something about their condition, resulting in a sh*t forum that is less active each year and users searching for other platforms to find a solution in a productive way like this one. Sad...

Another thing is how a couple of negative users keep spreading lies about X treatment there and giving the impression that it didn't help almost anyone but when actually checked, it did help many. For example a user recently did the test for TRT: TRT therapy - positive results on the whole but negative views held by forum members

"Many a time TRT has been brought up in the course of discussion of PFS and associated conditions.
Whenever this occurs it is usually quickly refuted as being ineffective for sufferers of PFS. I accepted this as gospel for a long time for a number of reasons. Firstly, it seems that there are few members these days posting about attempted TRT treatments. It seems as though it’s been ‘written off’ as a methodology which simply doesn’t work for us as we’ve been irrevocably changed and entirely insensitive to androgens. While that hasn’t been spelled out specifically, it has at least been strongly inferred, especially by moderators as well as some passionate and vocal members.


Secondly, it seems to go against the official theory of androgen-receptor upregulation and how due to the upregulation and thus the increased activation of receptors due to hormones, they effectively shut down at a point.


I spent a bit of time exploring past posts from existing members dating back over 10 years. Many of the members have since left the forum for whatever reason. For the ease of other members, I decided to compile a brief spreadsheet outlining the different members, whether TRT improved, deteriorated or simply didn’t change their condition. Much to my surprise I found a much higher than expected number of positive anecdotes from members who tried TRT. Benefits ranged from near complete recoveries to partial recoveries with improvements in specific symptoms."

That is why some of these irrational users (note; I still feel a lot of sympathy for them) are very dangerous with perpetuating their lies about certain treatments and mods facilitating them (with whatever agenda they might have)... This is especially dangerous for guys who just got PFS and first stumble on propeciahelp forum for advice, etc and reading these comments. Making it seem they are doomed and nothing can help them when that is not the case.

This happened in my case 4 years ago when like most guys with PFS, I stumbled on the propeciahelp forum to find solutions. To newbies some of these users come across as authorative figures because one doesn't know any better and believe what they say, of course now I know they hardly know anything at all. This resulted in me wasting a lot of time doing almost nothing serious to get better because I believed those guys, this only changed when I really started researching and understood how wrong they actually were.

 

[Unknownuser]

Were you on hcg during the test ? your shbg is in normal range and your free t sounds good but there's still room for improvements

Yes I was on HCG for 16 weeks. But my values (at least for Testosterone and Estradiol) were the same last year. If you ask about my gut feeling, I would even say my T values dropped a bit on HCG. Maybe the 250 ui MO/WE/FR does not stimulate as much T production as my own LH was doing. As I said, pre HCG I was more aggressive and more confident. Also I had lots of acne on my back pre HCG.

I will add 120mg TRT a week to my HCG. I have read too many success stories about TRT to not try it.

 

[Mister]

Yes I was on HCG for 16 weeks. But my values (at least for Testosterone and Estradiol) were the same last year. If you ask about my gut feeling, I would even say my T values dropped a bit on HCG. Maybe the 250 ui MO/WE/FR does not stimulate as much T production as my own LH was doing. As I said, pre HCG I was more aggressive and more confident. Also I had lots of acne on my back pre HCG.

I will add 120mg TRT a week to my HCG. I have read too many success stories about TRT to not try it.

And doesn't mean you will have to stay on TRT for the rest of your life. Couple of guys who did a test cycle and HCG/PCT afterwards recovered.

 

[MichaelZurich]

Yes I was on HCG for 16 weeks. But my values (at least for Testosterone and Estradiol) were the same last year. If you ask about my gut feeling, I would even say my T values dropped a bit on HCG. Maybe the 250 ui MO/WE/FR does not stimulate as much T production as my own LH was doing. As I said, pre HCG I was more aggressive and more confident. Also I had lots of acne on my back pre HCG.

I will add 120mg TRT a week to my HCG. I have read too many success stories about TRT to not try it.

Hey @Unknownuser, Is there any chance that you are testing your LH in a couple of weeks, to see your experience in LH recovery after hCG? I guess it will recover soon because of your young age. It would really mean a lot to me.
Kind Regards

 

[Mister]

Interesting recent twitter thread from docs who treat PFS:

https://twitter.com/AndrewSunMD/status/1324770761731657734

Definitely seen this a lot and believe it's real. Anecdotally feel symptoms are worse the younger they started on finasteride. Clomid has helped on a few pts with lower T / FSH/LH levels...
@JustinHoumanMD
@eleswarapu
@DrJessicaYih
6:48 p.m. · 6 nov. 2020

As everyone knows, older guys are also affected but brush off their side effects because of age...

This doc agrees

https://twitter.com/rachelsrubin1/status/1333239898464260096?s=19

And I’m certain this effects older guys as well...it’s just more obvious in the younger guys who typically have no co-morbidities.

And lol at the fools who still think PFS is rare

https://twitter.com/DrJessicaYih/status/1327387622688354305

Post finasteride syndrome is so real! Hundreds of patients coming to #sandiegosexualmedicine with this. Often have low t. Make sure to check dht also! Some recommend andractim, available in Europe (and online). Shockwave therapy for ED. Can take years to get better for some!

 

[madis l]

After some time I thought about checking propeciahelp again...

One of the things I first read;

Rb26dett
"don’t believe in @pal story.
You are too gullible and naive.
That guy is clearly a member who joined the forum with a VPN and made up this story to get the naïve to test his theory. It doesn’t take long to figure it out."

The conspiracy theories and doom and gloom thinking is still alive and well over there. Feel sorry for the guy he seems one if not the worst case of PFS I have seen yet though, no wonder he became irrational. Same with vkg1 constant doom posting. Mods letting pessimism grow there and banning users who want to do something about their condition, resulting in a sh*t forum that is less active each year and users searching for other platforms to find a solution in a productive way like this one. Sad...

Another thing is how a couple of negative users keep spreading lies about X treatment there and giving the impression that it didn't help almost anyone but when actually checked, it did help many. For example a user recently did the test for TRT: TRT therapy - positive results on the whole but negative views held by forum members

"Many a time TRT has been brought up in the course of discussion of PFS and associated conditions.
Whenever this occurs it is usually quickly refuted as being ineffective for sufferers of PFS. I accepted this as gospel for a long time for a number of reasons. Firstly, it seems that there are few members these days posting about attempted TRT treatments. It seems as though it’s been ‘written off’ as a methodology which simply doesn’t work for us as we’ve been irrevocably changed and entirely insensitive to androgens. While that hasn’t been spelled out specifically, it has at least been strongly inferred, especially by moderators as well as some passionate and vocal members.


Secondly, it seems to go against the official theory of androgen-receptor upregulation and how due to the upregulation and thus the increased activation of receptors due to hormones, they effectively shut down at a point.


I spent a bit of time exploring past posts from existing members dating back over 10 years. Many of the members have since left the forum for whatever reason. For the ease of other members, I decided to compile a brief spreadsheet outlining the different members, whether TRT improved, deteriorated or simply didn’t change their condition. Much to my surprise I found a much higher than expected number of positive anecdotes from members who tried TRT. Benefits ranged from near complete recoveries to partial recoveries with improvements in specific symptoms."

That is why some of these irrational users (note; I still feel a lot of sympathy for them) are very dangerous with perpetuating their lies about certain treatments and mods facilitating them (with whatever agenda they might have)... This is especially dangerous for guys who just got PFS and first stumble on propeciahelp forum for advice, etc and reading these comments. Making it seem they are doomed and nothing can help them when that is not the case.

This happened in my case 4 years ago when like most guys with PFS, I stumbled on the propeciahelp forum to find solutions. To newbies some of these users come across as authorative figures because one doesn't know any better and believe what they say, of course now I know they hardly know anything at all. This resulted in me wasting a lot of time doing almost nothing serious to get better because I believed those guys, this only changed when I really started researching and understood how wrong they actually were.

I think you shouldn't take into account what's been said over there , we're all big advocators for scientific research so we can sort out the root cause of this disorder but in the mean time you've got to pull your head on your shoulders and fight back with your own tools , i believe dedication is the biggest contributor in any recovery , going from therapeutic treatment to diet and life style , bringing dedication into your life will put you on the right track

 

[madis l]

Yes I was on HCG for 16 weeks. But my values (at least for Testosterone and Estradiol) were the same last year. If you ask about my gut feeling, I would even say my T values dropped a bit on HCG. Maybe the 250 ui MO/WE/FR does not stimulate as much T production as my own LH was doing. As I said, pre HCG I was more aggressive and more confident. Also I had lots of acne on my back pre HCG.

I will add 120mg TRT a week to my HCG. I have read too many success stories about TRT to not try it.

You need to find the sweet spot and it'll likely take time to figure it out , in your case 80mg might be enough

 

[Mister]

I think you shouldn't take into account what's been said over there , we're all big advocators for scientific research so we can sort out the root cause of this disorder but in the mean time you've got to pull your head on your shoulders and fight back with your own tools , i believe dedication is the biggest contributor in any recovery , going from therapeutic treatment to diet and life style , bringing dedication into your life will put you on the right track

Yes I agree, a hollistic approach is best but I believe for a lot who had PFS for years, things like HCG, nolvadex,... are inevitable.

 

[Charger]

Can anyone confirm whether or not elevating DHT lowers progesterone levels and if not what will that is relatively safe? I've recently reacted to progesterone supplementation very similarly to the way I reacted to finasteride. In many PFS patients you see elevated progesterone levels, just like you see in those who have ED from using progestins such as Deca. I believe these elevated levels are possibly correlated with ongoing 5ar inhibition.

You can also find many reports from women who react to progesterone supplementation with depression, anxiety, and other negative symptoms.

@Hans @haidut

 

[madis l]

Interesting recent twitter thread from docs who treat PFS:

https://twitter.com/AndrewSunMD/status/1324770761731657734

Definitely seen this a lot and believe it's real. Anecdotally feel symptoms are worse the younger they started on finasteride. Clomid has helped on a few pts with lower T / FSH/LH levels...
@JustinHoumanMD
@eleswarapu
@DrJessicaYih
6:48 p.m. · 6 nov. 2020

As everyone knows, older guys are also affected but brush off their side effects because of age...

This doc agrees

https://twitter.com/rachelsrubin1/status/1333239898464260096?s=19

And I’m certain this effects older guys as well...it’s just more obvious in the younger guys who typically have no co-morbidities.

And lol at the fools who still think PFS is rare

https://twitter.com/DrJessicaYih/status/1327387622688354305

Post finasteride syndrome is so real! Hundreds of patients coming to #sandiegosexualmedicine with this. Often have low t. Make sure to check dht also! Some recommend andractim, available in Europe (and online). Shockwave therapy for ED. Can take years to get better for some!

Still a lot of misinformations in their claims .

 

[madis l]

Yes I agree, a hollistic approach is best but I believe for a lot who had PFS for years, things like HCG, nolvadex,... are inevitable.

They can be very important in someone's recovery but they're not inevitable , i believe you can recover using other approaches

 

[Unknownuser]

And doesn't mean you will have to stay on TRT for the rest of your life. Couple of guys who did a test cycle and HCG/PCT afterwards recovered.

Yes I know. I read that. But the guy was on steroid doses, not TRT. I just took my first 60mg shot 2 hrs ago. Lets see what happens in 4-6 weeks.

Hey @Unknownuser, Is there any chance that you are testing your LH in a couple of weeks, to see your experience in LH recovery after hCG? I guess it will recover soon because of your young age. It would really mean a lot to me.
Kind Regards

I am not sure yet if I stay on HCG or get off. I injected 250 ui today and plan to do so another 1-2 weeks until I know for sure if get off HCG and stay on TRT only or not. I would want to stay on HCG but dont know if it is harmful together with TRT. I watched couple videos. Some say together is good. Some say its not good and only needed for fertility. Joe also is for staying on because of downstream hormones. If I stay on, does not make sense to check LH and FSH. If I get off HCG, I will check it for sure.

You need to find the sweet spot and it'll likely take time to figure it out , in your case 80mg might be enough

I will go for 120mg and see from there if I will go down or up. I want a bit more because 10kg more muscles would be awesome within a year. Of course by hitting the gym.

 

[madis l]

Can anyone confirm whether or not elevating DHT lowers progesterone levels and if not what will that is relatively safe? I've recently reacted to progesterone supplementation very similarly to the way I reacted to finasteride. In many PFS patients you see elevated progesterone levels, just like you see in those who have ED from using progestins such as Deca. I believe these elevated levels are possibly correlated with ongoing 5ar inhibition.

You can also find many reports from women who react to progesterone supplementation with depression, anxiety, and other negative symptoms.

@Hans @haidut

I've seen many pfsers with low progesterone , it's well documented that pfs is a specific tissue problem , meaning you may have normal blood results but tissues aren't responding to hormones , neurosteroids measurement is much more telling in my opinion as it dictates the body's hormones use

The study below found that pfs patients were depleted of neurosteroids
"Neuroactive steroid levels were also altered in plasma of PFS patients, however these changes did not reflect exactly what occurs in CSF. Finally, finasteride did not only affect, as expected, the levels of 5alpha-reduced metabolites of progesterone and testosterone, but also the further metabolites and precursors suggesting that this drug has broad consequence on neuroactive steroid levels of PFS patients."

Neuroactive steroid levels and psychiatric and andrological features in post-finasteride patients - PubMed

 

[madis l]

Yes I know. I read that. But the guy was on steroid doses, not TRT. I just took my first 60mg shot 2 hrs ago. Lets see what happens in 4-6 weeks.



I am not sure yet if I stay on HCG or get off. I injected 250 ui today and plan to do so another 1-2 weeks until I know for sure if get off HCG and stay on TRT only or not. I would want to stay on HCG but dont know if it is harmful together with TRT. I watched couple videos. Some say together is good. Some say its not good and only needed for fertility. Joe also is for staying on because of downstream hormones. If I stay on, does not make sense to check LH and FSH. If I get off HCG, I will check it for sure.



I will go for 120mg and see from there if I will go down or up. I want a bit more because 10kg more muscles would be awesome within a year. Of course by hitting the gym.

That's a good plan , just make sure to hit the gym 4 times a week (don't skip any day ) , dedication is everything

 

[Charger]

I've seen many pfsers with low progesterone , it's well documented that pfs is a specific tissue problem , meaning you may have normal blood results but tissues aren't responding to hormones , neurosteroids measurement is much more telling in my opinion as it dictates the body's hormones use

The study below found that pfs patients were depleted of neurosteroids
"Neuroactive steroid levels were also altered in plasma of PFS patients, however these changes did not reflect exactly what occurs in CSF. Finally, finasteride did not only affect, as expected, the levels of 5alpha-reduced metabolites of progesterone and testosterone, but also the further metabolites and precursors suggesting that this drug has broad consequence on neuroactive steroid levels of PFS patients."

Neuroactive steroid levels and psychiatric and andrological features in post-finasteride patients - PubMed

I'm aware of the neurosteroid issue, it's a direct result of 5AR inhibition. anything that notably inhibits 5ar in susceptible individuals will cause similar symptoms. The main difference between other 5AR inhibitors and fin/dut is the time it takes for the inhibition to let up or for the drug to clear.

 

[madis l]

I'm aware of the neurosteroid issue, it's a direct result of 5AR inhibition. anything that notably inhibits 5ar in susceptible individuals will cause similar symptoms. The main difference between other 5AR inhibitors and fin/dut is the time it takes for the inhibition to let up or for the drug to clear.

Do you think we had a pre-existing liver disease before finasteride use ?