Female Corner

[Blossom]

I'm curious if you ladies wouldn't mind giving me some input on personal experience with dietary fat?

Sepecifically if any of you notice that your bodies run better with a little more compared to a man's intake?

Do you seem to crave saturated fats instead of fructose comparatively?

Around and during mensus do these cravings increase? Decrease?

During and after menopause does this change at all?

For those who are highly active, do you notice you crave carbohydrates more? Or just even higher levels of fat?

I ask because I notice that women, especially when healthy seem to do best with more fat in their diet than men (specifically a men tends to do best on 0.3g/lean lb of bodymass and women seem to do best on 0.6-0.8g/lean lb of bodymass)

Thanks in advance for all input :)

I've never calculated it but I noticed a long time ago that I feel my best when I get at least 50 grams of fat per day. @thebigpeatowski and I discussed this briefly years ago in her thread. I'm in menopause but the only consistent cravings I can recall around my cycle were for chocolate or ice cream. I can't decide if those foods would be considered a sweet or fat craving since they usually have a fair amount of both! I no longer seem to have any hormonal cravings and honestly can't remember the last time I ate ice cream.
Out of curiosity I'll try to calculate my lean body mass and see where I fall within the range you mentioned.

 

[Blossom]

@Jon, I looked back through cronometer and it looks like I'm averaging 45 grams of fat per day. Based on my lean body mass in pounds estimate I'm eating 0.5 grams of fat per pound!
I hope more ladies reply.

 

[Jon]

Hi @Jon

For me- I’ve followed Peats philosophies for about three years now, with tons of trial and error-
I think in order of importance is:
1) simply eating more calories. I was starving and probably orthorexic and didn’t know how off I was
2) a close second would be 40/30/30
C/P/F
This is important because having balanced blood sugar allowed less stress on my adrenals, less cortisol, to allow me to heal
3) carbohydrates way over fat for cravings and energy
I like fat okay, but always prefer carbs

So yes, I agree with you that women do do better with more fat in their diet- but I assess it as to women do better with more calories; especially protein for my liver.

Thank you for your response! Would you mind sharing your lean body mass, calorie intake, saturated fat intake, and glucose and fructose intake?

@Jon, I looked back through cronometer and it looks like I'm averaging 45 grams of fat per day. Based on my lean body mass in pounds estimate I'm eating 0.5 grams of fat per pound!
I hope more ladies reply.

So interesting!! So I feel I'm onto something with setting a baseline minimum of healthy fat intake for women at 0.6g/per lb of lean mass (obviously this is a close arbitrary figure as there will be women like yourself who find even a little less than this is ideal).

I'm thinking that perhaps has a women encounters menopause and thereafter, fat intake needs become lower due to the decrease in growth hormone (among other lipid oxidizing hormones). I believe higher baseline HGH to be the main driver of women's higher dietary fat needs. Perhaps this is why younger women tend to need/crave more fat (around 0.8g per lean lb) than someone closer/experiencing Menopause.

I also think women tend to crave specific fat sources in place of fructose, as fatty acids like the MCT in coconut oil and the Alpha linoleic acid in pastured eggs, dairy, and beef are metabolized by the liver, which would battle fructose if ingested simultaneously. Being that women's bodies need fat more than fructose (and tend not to do so well with a high intake of fructose) I feel this may be why women are instinctually averted from high fructose ingestion (in my observations at least).

Like most of us here (I'd imagine) who speak nutrition, endocrinology, and chemistry decently well, I have lots of people ask me for advice on these matters. Being a man, I'm obviously most well versed with male specific health, but I find more often than not it's women who are the quickest to ask questions when they need help (a trait I admire btw) and so because of that, that's why I would like to formulate a concensus on healthy nutrition baselines for women as I feel we are SEVERELY LACKING in studies comparing gender specific nutritional requirement, except for prenatal needs, which are also probably twisted in many ways from researchers pushing correlation as causation. Alas, a topic for another time lol.

Anyways yeah I'd love to hash this out! So thanks again for all the input!

 

[Jon]

@Peatful @Blossom also when I mention fructose I should be more clear that I'm specifically taking about fructose, not carbs in general. I am with you Peatful that carbs should still make up more calories than fat in a woman's diet, but I believe a large sum of those carbs should be glucose (starchy) not fructose. Again though, I would like to see what a concesnsus says among the ladies here :)

 

[Blossom]

@Peatful @Blossom also when I mention fructose I should be more clear that I'm specifically taking about fructose, not carbs in general. I am with you Peatful that carbs should still make up more calories than fat in a woman's diet, but I believe a large sum of those carbs should be glucose (starchy) not fructose. Again though, I would like to see what a concesnsus says among the ladies here :)

I've never been successful going no starch. I continue to eat it daily although I do consume fructose as well from fruits, juice, honey and sugar.
I think you are right about needing slightly less fat in menopause. I feel fine eating this amount of fat and some days are higher and some lower but it averages out to about 45 grams. I remember it averaging out to about 50 grams per day prior to menopause. I noticed I eat on average about 200 less calories per day as well not trying to and that's in alignment with what I've read is typical in menopause.

 

[Blossom]

@Jon I thought you might like this thread,
Katharina Dalton And Progesterone & Blood Sugar

 

[Jon]

I've never been successful going no starch. I continue to eat it daily although I do consume fructose as well from fruits, juice, honey and sugar.
I think you are right about needing slightly less fat in menopause. I feel fine eating this amount of fat and some days are higher and some lower but it averages out to about 45 grams. I remember it averaging out to about 50 grams per day prior to menopause. I noticed I eat on average about 200 less calories per day as well not trying to and that's in alignment with what I've read is typical in menopause.

Interesting. I know that fructose has a large inhibition of SHBG and this is perhaps another reason women don't require much of it, being that it (shbg) most likely is needed in higher amounts to further regulate free estrogen.

Edit: Makes me wonder if perhaps menopausal/post-menopausal women would do well with alittle more fructose and on the opposite women still having a mensus a little more MUFA as oleic acid is known to upregulate shbg.

Oleic acid increases hepatic sex hormone binding globulin production in men. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Jon]

@Jon I thought you might like this thread,
Katharina Dalton And Progesterone & Blood Sugar

Good stuff! This is all makin some sense now :)

 

[Blossom]

Interesting. I know that fructose has a large inhibition of SHBG and this is perhaps another reason women don't require much of it, being that it (shbg) most likely is needed in higher amounts to further regulate free estrogen.

Makes me wonder if perhaps menopausal/post-menopausal women would to well with alittle more fructose and a little more MUFA as oleic acid is known to upregulate shbg.

Oleic acid increases hepatic sex hormone binding globulin production in men. - PubMed - NCBI

Funny you mentioned that about MUFA because I've been craving EVOO lately!

 

[Jon]

Funny you mentioned that about MUFA because I've been craving EVOO lately!

Perhaps then it what you need! :) figuring out so many things! Or as amazoniac would say "lots of the learnings happening"

 

[Blossom]

Perhaps then it what you need! :) figuring out so many things! Or as amazoniac would say "lots of the learnings happening"

Yes! Definitely.

 

[Peatful]

@Peatful @Blossom also when I mention fructose I should be more clear that I'm specifically taking about fructose, not carbs in general. I am with you Peatful that carbs should still make up more calories than fat in a woman's diet, but I believe a large sum of those carbs should be glucose (starchy) not fructose. Again though, I would like to see what a concesnsus says among the ladies here :)

I’m 45 and still have a cycle.
I eat differently day to day, averaging about 2000-3000kcal per day.
I don’t know my lean body mass, just my weight.

I normally end up eating 50/25/25.
Saturated fat from EVCO; and yes, mostly starchy glucose, not fructose, as you have discerned.

What’s your assessment of milk and lactose?
Dairy, and all of its properties, has been a very healing agent for me.

The EVOO would also make sense from a Vitamin E perspective.

 

[Jon]

I’m 45 and still have a cycle.
I eat differently day to day, averaging about 2000-3000kcal per day.
I don’t know my lean body mass, just my weight.

I normally end up eating 50/25/25.
Saturated fat from EVCO; and yes, mostly starchy glucose, not fructose, as you have discerned.

What’s your assessment of milk and lactose?
Dairy, and all of its properties, has been a very healing agent for me.

The EVOO would also make sense from a Vitamin E perspective.

Good on ya! Quite the TDEE you have there, especially for a woman! Are you quite active?

I believe dairy sugars are basically animal synthesized forms of starch being that lactose is broken down to glucose and galactose; galactose is broken down further into glucose; this all happens i the intestines; liver is not much involved--->basically acts as a starch. There's much more about dairy that is great from a glucose oxidative metabolism supportive angle, like grassfed butter containing stearic, palmitic, and butyric acids (all support glucose sensitivity) also butter contains lysine which, though increases fat oxidation, also lowers NO, and upregulates carnitine which should increase androgen synthesis.


Edit: carnitine should increase androgen receptor sensitivity*

Evoo does have vitamin e but in very small amounts. Oleopurin has been associated with increases in testostosterone, and perhaps the synergistic effect of the oleopyrin and oleic acid simultaneously increases test and increases shbg which I suppose could lead to a nice cocktail for supporting female health for those dealing with estrogen dominance. The E would also hopefully act to prevent LP of the little omega nasties in it lol.

 

[Jennifer]

I'm curious if you ladies wouldn't mind giving me some input on personal experience with dietary fat?

Sepecifically if any of you notice that your bodies run better with a little more compared to a man's intake?

Do you seem to crave saturated fats instead of fructose comparatively?

Around and during mensus do these cravings increase? Decrease?

During and after menopause does this change at all?

For those who are highly active, do you notice you crave carbohydrates more? Or just even higher levels of fat?

I ask because I notice that women, especially when healthy seem to do best with more fat in their diet than men (specifically a men tends to do best on 0.3g/lean lb of bodymass and women seem to do best on 0.6-0.8g/lean lb of bodymass)

Thanks in advance for all input :)

I must be part dude because I do best on a low-fat/high carb diet of fruit and no starch. Knowing my tissue weaknesses and strengths, it makes sense to me why. The only time my desire for fat increases is during the coldest part of the winter here in New Hampshire and recently while dealing with a fever — I was averaging 2lbs of young coconut meat a day and small amounts of coconut milk.

I don't get cravings around menstruation, but my appetite increases. I eat 2500+ cals most days and 3000+ a few days leading up to my period. For the majority of the year, my macros are roughly 85C/10F/5P with fat coming from coconut and lesser amounts of avocado and olives. I'm 37, 5'1" and under 100lbs — I don't know my BF% so I don't know my LBM to do the grams of fat per pound calculation. Sorry.

I find that more than just minimal amounts of fat and my circulation and mood suffer— my limbs fall asleep if sitting, my feet cramp up while practicing dance and depressed, self-loathing thoughts occur. It also causes PMS symptoms around menstruation like sore breasts, bloating, cramping and increased flow — it's typically just light spotting.

 

[Peatful]

Good on ya! Quite the TDEE you have there, especially for a woman! Are you quite active?

I believe dairy sugars are basically animal synthesized forms of starch being that lactose is broken down to glucose and galactose; galactose is broken down further into glucose; this all happens i the intestines; liver is not much involved--->basically acts as a starch. There's much more about dairy that is great from a glucose oxidative metabolism supportive angle, like grassfed butter containing stearic, palmitic, and butyric acids (all support glucose sensitivity) also butter contains lysine which, though increases fat oxidation, also lowers NO, and upregulates carnitine which should increase androgen synthesis.


Edit: carnitine should increase androgen receptor sensitivity*

Evoo does have vitamin e but in very small amounts. Oleopurin has been associated with increases in testostosterone, and perhaps the synergistic effect of the oleopyrin and oleic acid simultaneously increases test and increases shbg which I suppose could lead to a nice cocktail for supporting female health for those dealing with estrogen dominance. The E would also hopefully act to prevent LP of the little omega nasties in it lol.

Enjoyed your thoughts on dairy.
Thx for taking the time to post.
Appreciate you.

 

[Jon]

I must be part dude because I do best on a low-fat/high carb diet of fruit and no starch. Knowing my tissue weaknesses and strengths, it makes sense to me why. The only time my desire for fat increases is during the coldest part of the winter here in New Hampshire and recently while dealing with a fever — I was averaging 2lbs of young coconut meat a day and small amounts of coconut milk.

I don't get cravings around menstruation, but my appetite increases. I eat 2500+ cals most days and 3000+ a few days leading up to my period. For the majority of the year, my macros are roughly 85C/10F/5P with fat coming from coconut and lesser amounts of avocado and olives. I'm 37, 5'1" and under 100lbs — I don't know my BF% so I don't know my LBM to do the grams of fat per pound calculation. Sorry.

I find that more than just minimal amounts of fat and my circulation and mood suffer— my limbs fall asleep if sitting, my feet cramp up while practicing dance and depressed, self-loathing thoughts occur. It also causes PMS symptoms around menstruation like sore breasts, bloating, cramping and increased flow — it's typically just light spotting.

Thank you for your response :)

No not part dude :) just maybe different circumstances? I know on @Rosie 's socializing thread (shameless plug to another females experience lol) you said you were vegan and I wonder if the abscence of animal protein changes the endocrine effect of your diet?

Before I make a fool of myself and speculate as to how this would change things, I'll wait for you to confirm lol.

Interesting piece on the fat cravings during winter. Long ago before I found out about Peat, I looked into how to manipulate brown fat. Interestingly because it's job is thermogenesis through glucose oxidation, it has been seen to increase basal metabolism in a big way once activated. You can do this by spending 4hours a day in light clothing in a 56F room (I think that was the temp used in study) it was like a 300cal increase to BMR. Eating fat may be a sign you've activated brown fat stores :) being that your body doesn't necessarily like doing this for fear of starving and probably would seek a high calorie substrate like fat to stop the effect/shift metabolism to a more available energy source during wintner (fat over carbs). Some slightly bs theory in my part but I'm not sure how else to make sense of it lol.

 

[Jon]

Enjoyed your thoughts on dairy.
Thx for taking the time to post.
Appreciate you.

Aye no prob :) I appreciate you taking part in the discussion!

 

[Blossom]

Evoo does have vitamin e but in very small amounts. Oleopurin has been associated with increases in testostosterone, and perhaps the synergistic effect of the oleopyrin and oleic acid simultaneously increases test and increases shbg which I suppose could lead to a nice cocktail for supporting female health for those dealing with estrogen dominance. The E would also hopefully act to prevent LP of the little omega nasties in it lol.

Thanks Jon, that's very informative.

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you for your response :)

No not part dude :) just maybe different circumstances? I know on @Rosie 's socializing thread (shameless plug to another females experience lol) you said you were vegan and I wonder if the abscence of animal protein changes the endocrine effect of your diet?

Before I make a fool of myself and speculate as to how this would change things, I'll wait for you to confirm lol.

Interesting piece on the fat cravings during winter. Long ago before I found out about Peat, I looked into how to manipulate brown fat. Interestingly because it's job is thermogenesis through glucose oxidation, it has been seen to increase basal metabolism in a big way once activated. You can do this by spending 4hours a day in light clothing in a 56F room (I think that was the temp used in study) it was like a 300cal increase to BMR. Eating fat may be a sign you've activated brown fat stores :) being that your body doesn't necessarily like doing this for fear of starving and probably would seek a high calorie substrate like fat to stop the effect/shift metabolism to a more available energy source during wintner (fat over carbs). Some slightly bs theory in my part but I'm not sure how else to make sense of it lol.

You're welcome! :)

Yep, dropping the animal protein and going fruitarian definitely affected my endocrine system. My chronically elevated PTH while strict peating came down to the low end of the range, my depression, high adrenaline and anxiety attacks disappeared, I stopped waking during the night needing to pee and I now have periods. My progesterone level went from non-existent without the use of high doses of Progest-E (a bottle a week) to the highest it has been, far exceeding the 10x that off estrogen ratio that Ray says is optimal.

Your theory is much better than mine. It sounds complicated enough to be convincing so I say we go with it! lol Mine is that sweet fruit is scarce during the winter and what's available is so unripe that tree bark would be less aggravating to my intestines, and my body knows that the coconut, avos and olives are always available and ripe so I can actually get some painless calories and not have to go to bed starving. I'm still not at a point where I can skimp on calories for extended periods without my adrenals freaking out.

 

[Nicole W.]

Hi Nicole, I have a couple of questions! Are you still using the progesterone/pregnenalone and if so, how much? Also, what brand of Calcium D-Glucarate are you using?

Hi there, I can’t remember if I replied to you or not. If I didn’t, I apologize. I’ve kind of given up on Progesterone for now. I really like the pregnenolone ( felt good on 6-8 drops of Stressnon applied once a week) but am worried that it could factor into the elevated Estrogen issues, so trying not to use it until I get the estrogen down. I have been using Designs for Health Calcium D Glucarate. Update on the CDG, too much of this supplement causes GI issues ( for me) and resulting dehydration. I especially had problems with dry mouth and eyes while using it. Some people can tolerate high doses but even 150 mg was too much for me. I tend to be sensitive to everything so no surprises there. I used the CDG for about a month befor I stopped so hopefully the remaining supplements ...the liposomal glutathione, daily carrot, aspirin and b6 will continue to support detoxification.