Female Corner

[LUH 3417]

Hi ladies (and gentlemen), I was hoping I could ask a question in this thread regarding progesterone. I found a website that recommended taking 300mg daily for three months if one is perimenopausal or at least has the issue of getting her period shortly after starting to take progesterone during the normal day 12-28 part of the cycle as was occurring with myself. So I began that journey and found that as alll the estrogen started to be released from tissues or whatever was happening I began to actually need more and more til I was actually taking at leaSt 500mg daily and then two nights ago with the occurrence of the lunar eclipse perhaps I got really sick with a major headache that started as severe pain in my neck (mainly on the left side) that branched up into my head and felt like there was blood throbbing in my left side of my brain and causing edema. It would feel worse every time I stood up or sat down. It was quite scary and today the right side of my head is having some of that pressure although not nearly as bad. I think I took well over 600mg of progesterone yesterday but it wasn’t accurately measured because I just kept taking droppersfull and also the pills which are 200mg each. My gut feels like heck, too and it’s just been a really difficult couple of days. No vomiting and no light sensitivity so I don’t think this is a migraine as I also get the occasional one of those and am familiar with the sensa

Sorry just to clarify - you mean that if you cycle progesterone days 12-28 and get your period that means you are perimenopausal?

 

[Jackrabbit]

Sorry about that...oops! Anyway I appreciate any words of encouragement or wisdom that could be bestowed. I’m hoping that this is the evil estrogen taking its last stand and that through sticking with the high dose progesterone I will expel all the excessive poison in my body. Thanks for any help in advance!

 

[LUH 3417]

Sorry about that...oops! Anyway I appreciate any words of encouragement or wisdom that could be bestowed. I’m hoping that this is the evil estrogen taking its last stand and that through sticking with the high dose progesterone I will expel all the excessive poison in my body. Thanks for any help in advance!

I’m sorry I can’t be more help but I’m very curious about where you read that? I never knew getting your period while taking progesterone meant you are perimenopausal.

 

[Nicole W.]

Hi ladies (and gentlemen), I was hoping I could ask a question in this thread regarding progesterone. I found a website that recommended taking 300mg daily for three months if one is perimenopausal or at least has the issue of getting her period shortly after starting to take progesterone during the normal day 12-28 part of the cycle as was occurring with myself. So I began that journey and found that as alll the estrogen started to be released from tissues or whatever was happening I began to actually need more and more til I was actually taking at leaSt 500mg daily and then two nights ago with the occurrence of the lunar eclipse perhaps I got really sick with a major headache that started as severe pain in my neck (mainly on the left side) that branched up into my head and felt like there was blood throbbing in my left side of my brain and causing edema. It would feel worse every time I stood up or sat down. It was quite scary and today the right side of my head is having some of that pressure although not nearly as bad. I think I took well over 600mg of progesterone yesterday but it wasn’t accurately measured because I just kept taking droppersfull and also the pills which are 200mg each. My gut feels like heck, too and it’s just been a really difficult couple of days. No vomiting and no light sensitivity so I don’t think this is a migraine as I also get the occasional one of those and am familiar with the sensa

Hi Jackrabbit,
I started using pregnenolone and PROGEST E progesterone regularly a year and a half ago (second half of menstrual cycle) as a way to support myself through perimenopause and eventually menopause. Around that time I developed severe sinus pain on the left side which has continued until now. Went to multiple doctors, took multiple rounds of antibiotics believing it was an infection that would not clear. Eventually, despite my reluctance, I agreed to an MRI. After reviewing the results, the ENT said that I did not currently have a sinus infection and had not had one up to 3 months prior as he could see residual evidence of recent infection on the images if there had been one. Needless to say, I was surprised by these results. Other than having a slight deviated septum (which had never given me trouble before) he could not offer any explanation for my pain and discomfort. Since then, I have had left side pain in the neck, back of the head, temple, sinus and ear EVERY day for over a year. Because I had been using progesterone and pregnenolone regularly, my Naturopath suggested that we do a DUTCH hormone and adrenal panel just to make sure my hormones were balanced. Let me say, that the were NOT: The DUTCH results revealed that my estrogen levels are dangerously high. Also, as it turns out, there are estrogen receptors in the mucus membranes of the sinuses and those are activated by circulating estrogen. This leads to increased blood flow and swelling which probably accounts to the feeling of inflammation and swelling in my sinus, eye, neck area.
Honestly, its been agony and the last thing I would think to attribute this pain to is unbalanced hormones but I believe that is what it has been all along. The next question is why would long term use of progesterone and pregnenolone cause this situation? Or, if I was estrogen dominant to begin with, why wouldn’t these supplements have addressed it? I am now taking Calcium D-Glucarate to help metabolize the excess estrogen and liposomal Glutathione to deal with the ensuing oxidative stress. Just for the record, I’ve been Peating for years and routinely eat raw carrots and lots of mushrooms, actively avoid PUFA, drink coffee, take aspirin and all the rest. Seriously, I’m completely baffled by this situation. I’m just sharing my experience with you because it’s in some way similar to yours. Could the progesterone be the culprit in your case too? Maybe some hormone labs would answer that question.

 

[Blossom]

Hi Jackrabbit,
I started using pregnenolone and PROGEST E progesterone regularly a year and a half ago (second half of menstrual cycle) as a way to support myself through perimenopause and eventually menopause. Around that time I developed severe sinus pain on the left side which has continued until now. Went to multiple doctors, took multiple rounds of antibiotics believing it was an infection that would not clear. Eventually, despite my reluctance, I agreed to an MRI. After reviewing the results, the ENT said that I did not currently have a sinus infection and had not had one up to 3 months prior as he could see residual evidence of recent infection on the images if there had been one. Needless to say, I was surprised by these results. Other than having a slight deviated septum (which had never given me trouble before) he could not offer any explanation for my pain and discomfort. Since then, I have had left side pain in the neck, back of the head, temple, sinus and ear EVERY day for over a year. Because I had been using progesterone and pregnenolone regularly, my Naturopath suggested that we do a DUTCH hormone and adrenal panel just to make sure my hormones were balanced. Let me say, that the were NOT: The DUTCH results revealed that my estrogen levels are dangerously high. Also, as it turns out, there are estrogen receptors in the mucus membranes of the sinuses and those are activated by circulating estrogen. This leads to increased blood flow and swelling which probably accounts to the feeling of inflammation and swelling in my sinus, eye, neck area.
Honestly, its been agony and the last thing I would think to attribute this pain to is unbalanced hormones but I believe that is what it has been all along. The next question is why would long term use of progesterone and pregnenolone cause this situation? Or, if I was estrogen dominant to begin with, why wouldn’t these supplements have addressed it? I am now taking Calcium D-Glucarate to help metabolize the excess estrogen and liposomal Glutathione to deal with the ensuing oxidative stress. Just for the record, I’ve been Peating for years and routinely eat raw carrots and lots of mushrooms, actively avoid PUFA, drink coffee, take aspirin and all the rest. Seriously, I’m completely baffled by this situation. I’m just sharing my experience with you because it’s in some way similar to yours. Could the progesterone be the culprit in your case too? Maybe some hormone labs would answer that question.

FYI @Jackrabbit, One of our members @skycop00 can probably get you a DUTCH test kit (as mentioned by Nicole) if you are interested and do not have a provider. It's a bit expensive but multiple members have said good things about it.

 

[teds]

Hi ladies (and gentlemen), I was hoping I could ask a question in this thread regarding progesterone. I found a website that recommended taking 300mg daily for three months if one is perimenopausal or at least has the issue of getting her period shortly after starting to take progesterone during the normal day 12-28 part of the cycle as was occurring with myself. So I began that journey and found that as alll the estrogen started to be released from tissues or whatever was happening I began to actually need more and more til I was actually taking at leaSt 500mg daily and then two nights ago with the occurrence of the lunar eclipse perhaps I got really sick with a major headache that started as severe pain in my neck (mainly on the left side) that branched up into my head and felt like there was blood throbbing in my left side of my brain and causing edema. It would feel worse every time I stood up or sat down. It was quite scary and today the right side of my head is having some of that pressure although not nearly as bad. I think I took well over 600mg of progesterone yesterday but it wasn’t accurately measured because I just kept taking droppersfull and also the pills which are 200mg each. My gut feels like heck, too and it’s just been a really difficult couple of days. No vomiting and no light sensitivity so I don’t think this is a migraine as I also get the occasional one of those and am familiar with the sensa

could you tell us what brand/s of progeterone you're taking?

 

[teds]

Hi Jackrabbit,
I started using pregnenolone and PROGEST E progesterone regularly a year and a half ago (second half of menstrual cycle) as a way to support myself through perimenopause and eventually menopause. Around that time I developed severe sinus pain on the left side which has continued until now. Went to multiple doctors, took multiple rounds of antibiotics believing it was an infection that would not clear. Eventually, despite my reluctance, I agreed to an MRI. After reviewing the results, the ENT said that I did not currently have a sinus infection and had not had one up to 3 months prior as he could see residual evidence of recent infection on the images if there had been one. Needless to say, I was surprised by these results. Other than having a slight deviated septum (which had never given me trouble before) he could not offer any explanation for my pain and discomfort. Since then, I have had left side pain in the neck, back of the head, temple, sinus and ear EVERY day for over a year. Because I had been using progesterone and pregnenolone regularly, my Naturopath suggested that we do a DUTCH hormone and adrenal panel just to make sure my hormones were balanced. Let me say, that the were NOT: The DUTCH results revealed that my estrogen levels are dangerously high. Also, as it turns out, there are estrogen receptors in the mucus membranes of the sinuses and those are activated by circulating estrogen. This leads to increased blood flow and swelling which probably accounts to the feeling of inflammation and swelling in my sinus, eye, neck area.
Honestly, its been agony and the last thing I would think to attribute this pain to is unbalanced hormones but I believe that is what it has been all along. The next question is why would long term use of progesterone and pregnenolone cause this situation? Or, if I was estrogen dominant to begin with, why wouldn’t these supplements have addressed it? I am now taking Calcium D-Glucarate to help metabolize the excess estrogen and liposomal Glutathione to deal with the ensuing oxidative stress. Just for the record, I’ve been Peating for years and routinely eat raw carrots and lots of mushrooms, actively avoid PUFA, drink coffee, take aspirin and all the rest. Seriously, I’m completely baffled by this situation. I’m just sharing my experience with you because it’s in some way similar to yours. Could the progesterone be the culprit in your case too? Maybe some hormone labs would answer that question.

Hi Nicole

just wanted to weigh in on this situation of yours because I've had troubles with my ears since 'peating' and I'm not blaming the 'peating' aspect but I was told to take progest-e as I was "estrogen dominant"- while I don't necessarily disagree with that assumption, it was an assumption.. anyway, I ended up with otosclerosis in one of my right ear (causing pretty significant hearing loss with additional bone growing in the ear). This is a problem that can occur in pregnancy so I would say there's some hormonal influence, although there's arguments for and against that..

I do feel that 'messing' with the hormones may have contributed.. bone metabolism is hormone driven so I think that's a fair deduction. I'm yet to find any method that tried to manipulate the hormones to reverse this problem though..

 

[Nicole W.]

Hi Nicole

just wanted to weigh in on this situation of yours because I've had troubles with my ears since 'peating' and I'm not blaming the 'peating' aspect but I was told to take progest-e as I was "estrogen dominant"- while I don't necessarily disagree with that assumption, it was an assumption.. anyway, I ended up with otosclerosis in one of my right ear (causing pretty significant hearing loss with additional bone growing in the ear). This is a problem that can occur in pregnancy so I would say there's some hormonal influence, although there's arguments for and against that..

I do feel that 'messing' with the hormones may have contributed.. bone metabolism is hormone driven so I think that's a fair deduction. I'm yet to find any method that tried to manipulate the hormones to reverse this problem though..

I’m sorry to hear that has happened. It is devastating to lose hearing in one or both ears. Obviously, neither of us would have tried progesterone if we thought these things could happen. At every turn you hear that progesterone is non-toxic and protective...which may be true fo the majority of the population. But, at the same time, we are all different and the way our bodies utilize certain nutrients can vary widely. I am praying my choice to use these hormones does not result in permanent consequences. Also, I am glad that I did not give up trying to suss out the cause of my condition. I was super close to opting for sinus surgery (which unfortunately does not have a high rate of success with regard to symptom resolution) just out of sheer desperation. So far, the CDG seems to be helping. I think this supplement helps to metabolize all hormones, not just estrogen. Maybe this could be helpful in your circumstance? It seems fairly innocuous in the short term. Have you consulted with any practitioner outside the allopathic medical community?

 

[Jackrabbit]

Hi Jackrabbit,
I started using pregnenolone and PROGEST E progesterone regularly a year and a half ago (second half of menstrual cycle) as a way to support myself through perimenopause and eventually menopause. Around that time I developed severe sinus pain on the left side which has continued until now. Went to multiple doctors, took multiple rounds of antibiotics believing it was an infection that would not clear. Eventually, despite my reluctance, I agreed to an MRI. After reviewing the results, the ENT said that I did not currently have a sinus infection and had not had one up to 3 months prior as he could see residual evidence of recent infection on the images if there had been one. Needless to say, I was surprised by these results. Other than having a slight deviated septum (which had never given me trouble before) he could not offer any explanation for my pain and discomfort. Since then, I have had left side pain in the neck, back of the head, temple, sinus and ear EVERY day for over a year. Because I had been using progesterone and pregnenolone regularly, my Naturopath suggested that we do a DUTCH hormone and adrenal panel just to make sure my hormones were balanced. Let me say, that the were NOT: The DUTCH results revealed that my estrogen levels are dangerously high. Also, as it turns out, there are estrogen receptors in the mucus membranes of the sinuses and those are activated by circulating estrogen. This leads to increased blood flow and swelling which probably accounts to the feeling of inflammation and swelling in my sinus, eye, neck area.
Honestly, its been agony and the last thing I would think to attribute this pain to is unbalanced hormones but I believe that is what it has been all along. The next question is why would long term use of progesterone and pregnenolone cause this situation? Or, if I was estrogen dominant to begin with, why wouldn’t these supplements have addressed it? I am now taking Calcium D-Glucarate to help metabolize the excess estrogen and liposomal Glutathione to deal with the ensuing oxidative stress. Just for the record, I’ve been Peating for years and routinely eat raw carrots and lots of mushrooms, actively avoid PUFA, drink coffee, take aspirin and all the rest. Seriously, I’m completely baffled by this situation. I’m just sharing my experience with you because it’s in some way similar to yours. Could the progesterone be the culprit in your case too? Maybe some hormone labs would answer that question.

Thank you for your extremely interesting and open response. That is so baffling, and it’s so scary that you have had to deal with that kind of pain for over a year. Having experienced it in short bursts now and then has made me feel so hopeless but at the same time it’s what has led me here, so I guess it’s not all bad! Anyway, I know I have high estrogen as well. And I struggled with these sorts of headaches before ever taking the progesterone so I began to suspect that the headache is hormone related. Especially because it always comes a few days after my period starts and in this case my period has started over and over again in a matter of a couple of weeks so I’m guessing that something went really awry. I will have to look into the supplements you referred to. The type of pain you are describing hit the nail on the head. It does feel exactly like an infection and it’s incredible to know about the estrogen receptors on the mucus membranes!! Wow, it all makes sense!
To answer @teds question I have been taking a prescription of prometrium (bio-identical) and one of the ones that is dissolved in vitamin e, although I’d rather not say the specific brand as I don’t believe the brand has anything to do with it. It’s a well made product and most people give it stellar reviews although some people seem to swear by the skin applied creams and say that the oil didn’t work for them at all and resulted in their symptoms returning when they tried it after using the cream.

 

[Jackrabbit]

FYI @Jackrabbit, One of our members @skycop00 can probably get you a DUTCH test kit (as mentioned by Nicole) if you are interested and do not have a provider. It's a bit expensive but multiple members have said good things about it.

Thank you blossom, I will keep that in mind for future reference!

 

[Jackrabbit]

Sorry just to clarify - you mean that if you cycle progesterone days 12-28 and get your period that means you are perimenopausal?

Sorry I almost forgot to respond to this! Here is the link, it doesn’t say that you are peri menopausal if you get your period when on progesterone, sorry for making that a confusing statement! You can read the website, scroll down past the instructions for normal cycling:
Cyclic Progesterone Therapy

 

[teds]

No stress re brand. I was more ccurious about whether it’s a progestin or progesterone. The bio identical progesterone is known to increase blood pressure which would explain most of the symptoms that you experienced in this episode.


https://www.womensinternational.com/portfolio-items/progesterone/

 

[LUH 3417]

Sorry I almost forgot to respond to this! Here is the link, it doesn’t say that you are peri menopausal if you get your period when on progesterone, sorry for making that a confusing statement! You can read the website, scroll down past the instructions for normal cycling:
Cyclic Progesterone Therapy

Thank you so much. I was wondering why I have such diff responses to cycling progesterone month to month and this helped clarify things a bit.

 

[Jackrabbit]

No stress re brand. I was more ccurious about whether it’s a progestin or progesterone. The bio identical progesterone is known to increase blood pressure which would explain most of the symptoms that you experienced in this episode.


https://www.womensinternational.com/portfolio-items/progesterone/

According to the research I did about prometrium it’s a bio identical micronized progesterone derived from plants, exactly like the progesterone in the vitamin e oil formulations. However it’s dissolved in peanut oil (obviously not ideal,) and has various other undesirable ingredients. But my point is I don’t believe it’s a progestin and if it is I will definitely stop taking it.

 

[Jackrabbit]

“Estrogen activates mast cells to release histamine and serotonin, and activated mast cells can produce brain edema and demyelination. Blood clots have been microscopically associated with brain lesions like those in multiple sclerosis, and the platelets in clots release neurotoxic serotonin.”& “The neurosteroid, allopregnanolone, for which progesterone is the precursor, facilitates the inhibitory action of GABA, which is known to be deficient in some disorders of mood and movement. This suggests that progesterone will be therapeutic in the movement disorders, as it is in various mood problems. Progesterone has some specific antiserotonin actions (e.g., Wu, et al., 2000).” - both quotes by Ray Peat

“A paper published in the journal European Neuropsychopharmacology, coupled with the team's recent findings published in the British Journal of Pharmacology, show that short-term treatment with a low dose of fluoxetine immediately prior to the rat's premenstrual period not only raised brain allopregnanolone and prevented the development of PMS-like symptoms but also blocked the increase in excitability of brain circuits involved in mediating the stress and fear responses that normally occur during this phase of the cycle.

Surprisingly, in the case of rats, the effective dose of fluoxetine was well below that needed to produce antidepressant effects. The effects of the drug were seen within hours of administration, unlike the two to three weeks of treatment normally needed when fluoxetine is used to treat depression.”
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141208105433.htm

Premenstrual Syndrome Can Be Prevented With Low-dose Prozac (Fluoxetine)

 

[skycop00]

FYI @Jackrabbit, One of our members @skycop00 can probably get you a DUTCH test kit (as mentioned by Nicole) if you are interested and do not have a provider. It's a bit expensive but multiple members have said good things about it.

Yes anytime~!~

 

[alywest]

Hi Jackrabbit,
I started using pregnenolone and PROGEST E progesterone regularly a year and a half ago (second half of menstrual cycle) as a way to support myself through perimenopause and eventually menopause. Around that time I developed severe sinus pain on the left side which has continued until now. Went to multiple doctors, took multiple rounds of antibiotics believing it was an infection that would not clear. Eventually, despite my reluctance, I agreed to an MRI. After reviewing the results, the ENT said that I did not currently have a sinus infection and had not had one up to 3 months prior as he could see residual evidence of recent infection on the images if there had been one. Needless to say, I was surprised by these results. Other than having a slight deviated septum (which had never given me trouble before) he could not offer any explanation for my pain and discomfort. Since then, I have had left side pain in the neck, back of the head, temple, sinus and ear EVERY day for over a year. Because I had been using progesterone and pregnenolone regularly, my Naturopath suggested that we do a DUTCH hormone and adrenal panel just to make sure my hormones were balanced. Let me say, that the were NOT: The DUTCH results revealed that my estrogen levels are dangerously high. Also, as it turns out, there are estrogen receptors in the mucus membranes of the sinuses and those are activated by circulating estrogen. This leads to increased blood flow and swelling which probably accounts to the feeling of inflammation and swelling in my sinus, eye, neck area.
Honestly, its been agony and the last thing I would think to attribute this pain to is unbalanced hormones but I believe that is what it has been all along. The next question is why would long term use of progesterone and pregnenolone cause this situation? Or, if I was estrogen dominant to begin with, why wouldn’t these supplements have addressed it? I am now taking Calcium D-Glucarate to help metabolize the excess estrogen and liposomal Glutathione to deal with the ensuing oxidative stress. Just for the record, I’ve been Peating for years and routinely eat raw carrots and lots of mushrooms, actively avoid PUFA, drink coffee, take aspirin and all the rest. Seriously, I’m completely baffled by this situation. I’m just sharing my experience with you because it’s in some way similar to yours. Could the progesterone be the culprit in your case too? Maybe some hormone labs would answer that question.

Hi Nicole, I have a couple of questions! Are you still using the progesterone/pregnenalone and if so, how much? Also, what brand of Calcium D-Glucarate are you using?

 

[alywest]

anyone who is concerned about this should give this podcast a listen
The SIBO Doctor | SIBO and Hormonal Influences with Dr Carrie Jones

 

[Jon]

I'm curious if you ladies wouldn't mind giving me some input on personal experience with dietary fat?

Sepecifically if any of you notice that your bodies run better with a little more compared to a man's intake?

Do you seem to crave saturated fats instead of fructose comparatively?

Around and during mensus do these cravings increase? Decrease?

During and after menopause does this change at all?

For those who are highly active, do you notice you crave carbohydrates more? Or just even higher levels of fat?

I ask because I notice that women, especially when healthy seem to do best with more fat in their diet than men (specifically a men tends to do best on 0.3g/lean lb of bodymass and women seem to do best on 0.6-0.8g/lean lb of bodymass)

Thanks in advance for all input :)

 

[Peatful]

I'm curious if you ladies wouldn't mind giving me some input on personal experience with dietary fat?

Sepecifically if any of you notice that your bodies run better with a little more compared to a man's intake?

Do you seem to crave saturated fats instead of fructose comparatively?

Around and during mensus do these cravings increase? Decrease?

During and after menopause does this change at all?

For those who are highly active, do you notice you crave carbohydrates more? Or just even higher levels of fat?

I ask because I notice that women, especially when healthy seem to do best with more fat in their diet than men (specifically a men tends to do best on 0.3g/lean lb of bodymass and women seem to do best on 0.6-0.8g/lean lb of bodymass)

Thanks in advance for all input :)

Hi @Jon

For me- I’ve followed Peats philosophies for about three years now, with tons of trial and error-
I think in order of importance is:
1) simply eating more calories. I was starving and probably orthorexic and didn’t know how off I was
2) a close second would be 40/30/30
C/P/F
This is important because having balanced blood sugar allowed less stress on my adrenals, less cortisol, to allow me to heal
3) carbohydrates way over fat for cravings and energy
I like fat okay, but always prefer carbs

So yes, I agree with you that women do do better with more fat in their diet- but I assess it as to women do better with more calories; especially protein for my liver.