Estrogen E1 More Important For Hair Than Testosteron

[General Orange]

I think I figured something out,

In simple words:
-When men grow older and wiser their Testosterone goes down, but not DHT.
-Finasteride is not working for female hairloss so female hairloss is less dependent on 5AR.
-in females having weak adrenal androgens, make less DHEA therefore it is more important then Testosterone in female hair.

Less Testosterone > less Estrogen E2 or E1 > retarded hair growth...
...opposing estrogens fig1.:
E1 (aromatase) <-- androstenedione <--(17bHSD)--> testosterone --> (aromatase) E2

fig.1

DHEA can be converted in skin into more potent androgens T and DHT.
But less DHEA > less androstenedione > therefore less E1

Therefore hair loss is more dependent on Estrone E1.

Control:
- Estrogens grows hair back in balding transgenders undergoing hormone replacement therapy:
...Testosterone is reduced, estrogens increase, and relative pregnenolone increase therefore more DHEA.

Preg > DHEA > androstenedione > Estrone > hair growth

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/exd.12024
Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones

...your opinions, please?

 

[Luckytype]

As an additional control comparison you have to consider age, as when us males hit puberty and all out hormones are going crazy, most of us didnt have hairloss for decades.

Find adolescent studies then add those in to get a better picture - zoom out.

 

[ddjd]

I think I figured something out,

In simple words:
-When men grow older and wiser their Testosterone goes down, but not DHT.
-Finasteride is not working for female hairloss so female hairloss is less dependent on 5AR.
-in females having weak adrenal androgens, make less DHEA therefore it is more important then Testosterone in female hair.

Less Testosterone > less Estrogen E2 or E1 > retarded hair growth...
...opposing estrogens fig1.:
E1 (aromatase) <-- androstenedione <--(17bHSD)--> testosterone --> (aromatase) E2
View attachment 9354fig.1

DHEA can be converted in skin into more potent androgens T and DHT.
But less DHEA > less androstenedione > therefore less E1

Therefore hair loss is more dependent on Estrone E1.

Control:
- Estrogens grows hair back in balding transgenders undergoing hormone replacement therapy:
...Testosterone is reduced, estrogens increase, and relative pregnenolone increase therefore more DHEA.

Preg > DHEA > androstenedione > Estrone > hair growth

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/exd.12024
Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones

...your opinions, please?

I've definitely noticed that some Estrogenic things make my hair more voluminous. But I've never discovered which estrogen type is causing it. I'd be interested to hear what other people thing of your e1 estrone theory.

 

[mayweatherking]

less testosterone, more estrogen, is what constitutes the typical person losing hair though, like the guy with the giant gut, develop gyno, and has MPB, what are you saying, that only that specific type of estrogen will increase hair growth? it seems like a double edged sword right? how people taking diane35 or whatever will lose libido, or trans genders will lose testosterone, but develop hair, but regular men with the signs of MPB will also be icnreasing estrogen, but i dont know the difference between these two cases

 

[JamieFoote]

I'm on a hormone blocker called Zoladex, I lose hair with every injection. Zoladex shuts the ovaries down forcing menopause. My estrogen is <5.
I'd love to find a different way

 

[mujuro]

Estrone elevations probably explain why the hair of pregnant women grows so long and thick.

I've definitely noticed that some Estrogenic things make my hair more voluminous. But I've never discovered which estrogen type is causing it. I'd be interested to hear what other people thing of your e1 estrone theory.

Same. Back when I was dipping my toe in everything. Sauerkraut, cal D glucarate, probiotics, fibre supplements, cacao, etc. Albeit this was 4+ years ago and hair quality was constantly seesawing. The only other time I saw a real boost in thickness recently was when using Lapodin, which really kicked my **** since my thyroid was not prepared.

 

[ddjd]

Lapodin, which really kicked my **** since my thyroid was not prepared.

Lapodin is Emodin and Pau D'arco yeah? Do you think it would have increased Estrone e1?

 

[mujuro]

Lapodin is Emodin and Pau D'arco yeah? Do you think it would have increased Estrone e1?

No but it powerfully lowers cortisol, thus estrogen, serotonin, etc - all anti-hair. I was very sensitive to it. It felt almost Addisonian. The waves of adrenaline were intense.

Who knows. It may have had an effect on estrone.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Finasteride is not working for female hairloss so female hairloss is less dependent on 5AR.

why in the hell

 

[ddjd]

No but it powerfully lowers cortisol, thus estrogen, serotonin, etc - all anti-hair. I was very sensitive to it. It felt almost Addisonian. The waves of adrenaline were intense.

Who knows. It may have had an effect on estrone.

Emodin is also the only other thing apart from methylene blue and red light that dissociates nitric oxide from cytochrome c oxidase. I suspect high nitric oxide and low co2 is a key reason for mpb

 

[Luckytype]

You guys go on ahead and work on raising estrogen levels and lower your test.

Ill be a control subject and await the results.

 

[benaoao]

Op you’re misunderstanding the fact that... ahem women aren’t men, that they have vastly different amounts of progesterone, estrone estradiol and estriol. That high testosterone is bad for them whereas it’s desirable for us. And so on.

The root issue is the same anyway, it’s a poor metabolism (too much stress, insufficient nutrition) leading to hypothyroidism and low enzyme activity. In men, this leads to low T, high tissue DHT. We certainly don’t care about estrone, and estradiol isn’t indeed the hair villain. A healthy thyroid has a healthy balance in DHT metabolites, one of them acting like an estrogen and being protective.

Androgen deprivation promotes intratumoral synthesis of dihydrotestosterone from androgen metabolites in prostate cancer

I wish we had ways of testing for the dht metabolites as it seemed that Danny roddy isn’t aware of this enzymatic issue

Unfortunately the meridian valley lab website had a great layman article on the current research which I’ve already shared here, but they took it down it seems. I’ve sent them an email.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

The protective dht-metabolite in question is 3-beta-Androstanediol, not to confuse with its alpha-isomer!

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Made from dht via 3b-HSD

 

[benaoao]

Yep that is correct. And the article I have in mind listed some pro-3bHSD nutrition such as zinc, coconut (again and again the same good guys), olive on top of t3. I’ll let the forum know if they answer to my request

@LeeLemonoil do you have publications on the DHT metabolism you could share?

From the paper above

Conversely, it has been reported that synthesis of DHT from 3β-diol is prevented because 3β-diol is either irreversibly hydroxylated at C-6 and/or C-7 positions or is oxidized to (epi) androsterone (ADT)24,25,26,27,28. It has been suggested that 3β-diol is a potent ligand for estrogen receptor β (ERβ). A few studies implied that ERβ signaling has potential as a suppressor in prostate growth and plays anti-proliferative and apoptotic roles in the prostate29,30

The current focus is on prostate but the DHT-scalp issue is equally important.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

There is thread somewhere where I and some others discuss 3b-diol also with hairloss aspects... mobile web is slow just now, will link it up later

 

[benaoao]

Here was the article, posted on another website

Anticancer Testosterone Metabolite 3β-Adiol (July 2012) Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients

 

[Mito]

I wish we had ways of testing for the dht metabolites as it seemed that Danny roddy isn’t aware of this enzymatic issue

You can measure 5a-DHT, 5a-Androstanediol, and 5b-Androstanediol with a DUTCH test.

 

[xetawaves]

A few months ago I remember coming across a post on some hair loss forum and this guy said he knew someone who regrew his juvenile hairline completely from a nw2 with some prescription estrogen cream they make in the uk. I have no idea if it's true or not but just throwing that out there. I think there's a lot more at play than E1.

Feminine men have high estrogen right? I've met some with aggressive hair loss and some with full heads of hair.

 

[Arrade]

Estrone elevations probably explain why the hair of pregnant women grows so long and thick.



Same. Back when I was dipping my toe in everything. Sauerkraut, cal D glucarate, probiotics, fibre supplements, cacao, etc. Albeit this was 4+ years ago and hair quality was constantly seesawing. The only other time I saw a real boost in thickness recently was when using Lapodin, which really kicked my **** since my thyroid was not prepared.

Estradiol / Estriol - A Safe Therapy For Hair
Estriol is the pregnancy hormone but have fun with that