If Androgens Don't Cause Hair Loss How Does One Explain This Study?

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by GorillaHead, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. GorillaHead

    GorillaHead Member

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    Androgen Receptor Accelerates Premature Senescence of Human Dermal Papilla Cells in Association with DNA Damage

    The study claims that androgens damage dpc of non balding healthy people. It sats it accelerates senescence. So basically its rapid aging caused by androgens on the hair follicle.

    before you guys say that androgens cause body hair growth thats actually not 100% true.

    Men who have genetic aromatase deficiency have zero body hair. You need aromatase for hair to grow on the body seems.

    Yet these men showed zero signs of hairloss on their scalps. So maybe serum estrogen causes body hair and scalp estrogen causes hair growth.

    which invalidate the fact that aromatase is needed for body hair.


    No one talks about the fact the skin has everything to do steroidgenesis and it works directly with hpa axis.


    what if no aromatase in serum causes your skin to compensate by increasing aromatase hence aromatase deficient men have zero hair-loss cause they are only deficient in serum.

    So in normal men who get older their aromatase increases which then causes the skin to down regulate aromatase in the skin tissue and up-regulate androgens to compensate. This results in less scalp hair and more body hair.

    So genetically its all about your skin and how it responds to serum steroids?
     
  2. Zigzag

    Zigzag Member

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    People on roids and AIs lose hair. People on estradiol notice massive regrowth, even in temples area. Meanwhile people like to *cope* here that androgens don't contribute to hairloss.
     
  3. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    Yep, local steroid -situation and steroidgenesis around the shafts and the dermis counts most. It it’s very probable that there is some relation and feedback with more systemic hormonal parameters just like Gorilla suggested.
    But be careful with another wholesale hypothesis like no or small amounts of aromatase -> estrogen systemically means lush hair. That’s the negative of the peaty wholesale claims that androgens are universally responsible for good, healthy male looks.
    It’s never easy in physiology
     
  4. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    Testosterone and estrogen can both be responsible for hairloss, in vitro they both inhibit hair growth to the same degree. Anecdotally, I have a full head of hair at 32, meanwhile my father and grandfather both were fully bald in their early 20s. Mine started to fall by the time I hit puberty as well but by then internet was a thing and somewhere someone said they had managed to halt their hairloss by putting caffeine pills and crushed aspirin into their shampoo. So I bought some asprine, crushed 1 gram of it into a 250 ml bottle of caffeine shampoo and washed my head with it twice a day. Within a week my hairloss stopped, and I've been doing it ever since. Whenever I stop for more than a month my hair thins out and starts falling again.

    I have very high aromatase rate, I take 1.5 to 2.5 mgs of letrozole once a week in order to keep my estrogen in "normal" lab range and pee easier.
     
  5. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

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    What brand of caffeine shampoo do you use and what brand of aspirin?
     
  6. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    In the beginning I used a regular shampoo and crushed generic caffeine pills and aspirin in it, and that worked like a charm. But it was too much of a hassle so for a couple of years I've been using Alpecin caffeine shampoo, and I crush the aspirin in a regular local coconut shampoo brand. I wash once with the alepcin shampoo and once or twice with the aspirin shampoo.

    So caffeine shampoo is Alepcin c1
    The aspirin is over the counter generic aspirin and I crush it in a locally made herbal shampoo with coconut oil.
     
  7. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

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    Thank you for the reply.
     
  8. Broken man

    Broken man Member

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    Can you point me to a study with aromatase deficiency? If aromatase deficiency man had hair on scalp, Its good sign because aromatase means estrogen.
     
  9. Broken man

    Broken man Member

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    Ye, because they use huge amounts od testosterone and AIs that are damaging to the liver or are estrogen agonists.
     
  10. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I was going to say something like this. People are taking all of these steroids and lose some hair, what a surprise. I thought the same thing with people doing crazy low-carb diets.
     
  11. Zigzag

    Zigzag Member

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    It was an exaggeration. Nuking estrogen down and increasing androgens doesn't work. Doing the opposite definitely does. Obviously I'm not saying androgens are the cause of hair loss, but they definitely speed things up.
     
  12. Vladimir Erfán

    Vladimir Erfán Member

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    I've always wondered, why most stoners have great hair? Marijuana is known to be estrogenic. I've had 2 guy flatmates who were chronic users. One common trait they shared - great full head of great hair (one of them had long wavy luscious hair even though his diet had ton of pufa) and extreme moodiness, especially when they didn't get the daily fix (one time one of them break the washing machine, because he was impatient and couldn't turn it on).
     
  13. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Well, most stoners also tend to be young, usually in their 20s. People never consider that as a confounder. I knew a guy with thinning hair who started using marijuana heavily in his late 30s. No effect on his hair at all, certainly didn't get any thicker. A co-worker of mine have been a fairly regular user of marijuana for 20 years, he is mostly bald. Joe Rogan, totally bald, and he says he regularly smokes marijuana.
     
  14. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    How do I explain the results of a single in vitro study that backs up vested interest of androgens causing hair loss? Simple. It was an in vitro study designed to back up vested interests.

    The bigger question is, if androgens cause hair loss, why aren't men in their teens and 20s the main victims of Male Pattern Baldness, and why don't they regrow their hair as they age into their 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond?
     
  15. amaranthine

    amaranthine Member

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    where are you getting this from? If you’re talking about trans women regrowing hairlines I’ve never seen it happen apart from maybe one case. Yes they can regrow diffuse thinning but lasers and other treatments can work well for that kind of hair loss too. It’s by far the easiest type of hair loss to restore.

    when we’re talking about mpb I’ve never seen someone take estrogen and regrow their hairline
     
  16. Peater

    Peater Member

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    I'd rather go bald than be a stressy weed-obsessed loser
    Which ever "Hey man, it's like, chilled and stuff" pot-smoker I've ever known has turned into
     
  17. Inaut

    Inaut Member

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    I was a heavy weed smoke for quite a few years and am very happy i quit a few years ago. I wasted alot of youthful energy and it only weakened my vitality. Didn't help my hair either but I was in a bad place in those years....
     
  18. Zigzag

    Zigzag Member

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    I've seen enough photos to say it works. Also chemical castration does regrow temples as well.
     
  19. amaranthine

    amaranthine Member

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    can you share all these photos you’ve seen? I remember seeing one set of photos which showed good regrowth and any others were little to moderate at best. But trans women aren’t just on estrogen anyway, they take an anti androgen + a progestogen aswell generally.

    i think androgens are somehow implicated in hair loss but I’ve never seen estrogen curing mpb
     
  20. Zigzag

    Zigzag Member

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    I can't show private pics of other people. You have to believe me. Also this is a combination of AAs + estradiol. Obviously it's not a cure as there are people who don't respond to androgens inhibition and female hormones. Hell I know a person who doesn't respond to chemical castration. That's why I mentioned that I'm not saying androgens are the cause, but they definitely make miniaturization progress faster.

    I just think it all comes down to major genetic defect that affects large group of men. Their scalps have higher sensitivity to DHT and are more prone to starting the whole miniaturization cascade.
     
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