If Androgens Don't Cause Hair Loss How Does One Explain This Study?

JDreamer

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In the beginning I used a regular shampoo and crushed generic caffeine pills and aspirin in it, and that worked like a charm. But it was too much of a hassle so for a couple of years I've been using Alpecin caffeine shampoo, and I crush the aspirin in a regular local coconut shampoo brand. I wash once with the alepcin shampoo and once or twice with the aspirin shampoo.

So caffeine shampoo is Alepcin c1
The aspirin is over the counter generic aspirin and I crush it in a locally made herbal shampoo with coconut oil.

Can you not mix aspirin and caffeine in the same shampoo?
 

JDreamer

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Without estrogen you don't absorb iron from food, estrogen increases iron absorption by 9x-10x. And iron strongly stimulates the adrenals by increasing lipid peroxidation and free radicals (whereas calcium, sugar, which oppose iron's effects, quiet the adrenals). So they are both highly connected, you can't have one without the other. But focusing on reducing iron might be an easier approach than something as broad as lowering estrogen and adrenal hormones.

This is really interesting to me. That last time I had my last hormone panel run (a while ago) my serum estrogen was at the very bottom of the range (as was T and my DHT was slight below range). Cortisol was slightly elevated. Ironically enough around 8-9 years ago I cut out drinking milk (used to drink 2-3 glasses a day), eliminated most sugars, was very low carb, and consumed a lot of protein (for my workout) Hair loss intensified dramatically in that time frame. Tension and agitation also increased a lot.

I've worked on correcting the diet, but ya the iron/estrogen connection you described really caught my attention.
 
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GreekDemiGod

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@JDreamer If both Testosterone and Estrogen are low, then it's likely that Serotonin is high. I had this. High fat diets will also be pro-serotonin.

Thinking about vegans, they must be low iron, so they are doing right with that. What are the things they do wrong with regards to hair health / loss? Not enough protein intake, high PUFA affecting thyroid function maybe. What else?
 

JDreamer

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@JDreamer If both Testosterone and Estrogen are low, then it's likely that Serotonin is high. I had this. High fat diets will also be pro-serotonin.

Thinking about vegans, they must be low iron, so they are doing right with that. What are the things they do wrong with regards to hair health / loss? Not enough protein intake, high PUFA affecting thyroid function maybe. What else?

Interesting. I always assumed serotonin was high, especially because of two things:

1. Poor digestion and constipation issues
2. Excessive masturbation in my teenage years and early 20's (creating imbalances in dopamine)

I could be completely off-base on those two points and using bro science.
 

Broken man

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Alot of people here are saying androgens cause hair loss but could it not just be that these androgens are actually aromatising into estrogen and its the estrogen thats causing hairloss, it would be interesting to measure the estrogen concentration relative to the androgen concentration in balding men, from what ive heard from Peat or based on what i understand, things like testosterone and (maybe DHT) are hormones that EASILY aromatise into estrogen, hence why taking steroids or testoterone tends to have an estrogenic backfire effect, and i notice alot of transgender females who take testosterone experience hairloss but i believe this is because it aromatises so easily similar to how when you take too much DHEA it converts into estrogen, and i believe that is because in order to hold a metabolic state of high T & DHT where it doesnt aromatise requires good health (which many people dont have) however progesterone cannot convert into estrogen in any way whatsoever and females who have an abundance of progesterone, keep healthy full hairline despite horrible diet and stress until menopause,

After menopause, progesterone declines and estrogen rises drasticly, it should be noted the amount of balding post menopausal women vs premenopausal, this leads me to strongly believe it is the estrogen driving it and the progesterone preventing it, I personally believe men with a full head of hair have naturally higher progesterone level thats my guess, and just looking at real life examples the evidence suggesting androgens cause hair loss i still feel is very weak, most men ive seen with full heads of hair look far more androgenic than the balding counterparts from personal experience,

Even in castration my guess is the lack of T actually might in turn lower estrogen, im guessing that castration may protect from baldness in the sense that its lowering hormones that easily aromatise, im not sure,

Based on what ive also heard, DHT rises when estrogen rises as a protective mechanism, so again it could be the estrogen being the issue, and the presence of high DHT being blamed while estrogen might be much higher at the same time, because we all know, the adaptive mechanisms of the body are always imperfect.

However if we look at the examples,

Steroids users even though taking so called androgenic substances jack up their estrogen through a negative feedback mechanism, steroid users are known to have high rates of hair loss,

Transgender females who take T are known to experience hair loss and likely again because testosterone easily aromatises into estrogen,

I think Peat has even mentioned testoterone isnt a safe substance to take because of its high conversion to estrogen rate, only in very small small doses, i think he mentioned its safer when taken with progesterone to counter the estrogen feedback,

And like i mentioned women have an abundance of progesterone and experience barely any hair loss, but as soon as that declines and estrogen goes up they all seem to start balding, i cant tell you the number of balding old ladies i see,

So again alot of the things people have mentioned on here blaming androgens i think theres an explaination behind it and i think it comes down to the fact that some of these androgens easily aromatise into estrogen and in my opinion i think its mistaken and overlooked in the sense that the androgens get blamed instead of looking further to see how much of those androgen are being converted to estrogen, we already have concrete evidence estrogen causes hair loss hence aging and hair loss rising with age as estrogen rises with age,

You know what else decline with age? Androgens, so if androgens were the cause of balding shouldnt all old people not have full thick heads of hair? Theyre not really the example of the high androgen type,

I think we should really consider the aromatisation process of androgens and look further into how much of these androgens are being aromatised into estrogen because i think its way overlooked and i think most are just looking at step 1 and blaming androgens without looking deeper into what might actually be going on,

This is just my opinion,

However based on real life examples like i mentioned, i really and truly honestly believe it comes down to progesterone being why women rarely go bald and the lack of in (some) men that can cause baldness, along with men having much higher iron levels causing more reactions with endotoxin histamine, prostaglandins all things known to drive hair loss,

And just from personal experience, using progesterone seems to completely stop my scalp itch and actually stop my hair from falling out, and since applying it to the scalp ive noticed little baby hairs sprouting where previously receeded.

Not trying to argue just sharing my opinion but based on what i’ve seen i really just strongly dont believe that androgens being the cause of hairloss to be true, the evidence just seems to be far on the mainstream simplitic side of science and the claims seem to have weak reasoning behind them,

Again just my opinion, not saying im right just sharing my point of view
Perfect, saved this.
 

Xemnoraq

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If androgens cause hairloss how does one explain catchup hairloss when people get off finasteride?
My theory on how finasteride may restore hair is by decreasing the aromatizable steroids like testosterone, i think some androgens can be a major source of estrogen due to aromatase and this is especially noted with testosterone,

But again one could make the counter arguement to this that old men and women, both examples of the lowest androgen levels of all ages have the highest incedence of baldness,

Androgens decline with age and rate/risk of balding increases with age so if androgens caused hair loss than old people should have full heads of hair as they have extremely poor levels of androgens, i believe there is something else going on with finasteride thats regrowing hair unrelated to the androgens
 

GreekDemiGod

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Androgens decline with age and rate/risk of balding increases with age so if androgens caused hair loss than old people should have full heads of hair as they have extremely poor levels of androgens
Maybe it's the relative aromatization rate. Age decline may bring decrease in androgens, but increase the rate of aromatization.
 

Opioidus

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Can you not mix aspirin and caffeine in the same shampoo?
I don't see why not, but I do it on a different shampoo because the caffeine one I use every day but once the hairloss stops I don't need the aspirin one more than two times a week and it does dry the hair a lot.
 

lilsticky

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this is interesting. this boy had his baldness completely reversed with an arthritis pill, arthritis being a condition of which can be reliably treated with Boron..
 
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If this is the case why do vegan women who don’t eat iron-rich vegetables like spinach start losing their hair?
Iron deficiency obviously. It's interesting that deficiency of iron causes almost the symptoms as too much of it... Fatigue, hair loss, depression, low libido.
 
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@JDreamer If both Testosterone and Estrogen are low, then it's likely that Serotonin is high. I had this. High fat diets will also be pro-serotonin.

Thinking about vegans, they must be low iron, so they are doing right with that. What are the things they do wrong with regards to hair health / loss? Not enough protein intake, high PUFA affecting thyroid function maybe. What else?
Lot of estrogenic foods like beans, legumes, flaxseed. Low zinc also - most of the high zinc plant foods (on paper) have phytic acid which binds minerals. Probably low vitamin A, because many of us can't convert much beta carotine to Vitamin A. No taurine, creatine, CoenzymeQ. Lot of vegans have low vitamin D, even those who take supplements. Low cholesterol.
 

milkboi

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yeah women tend to have much less iron than men, at least in current times. i think fruits, calcium, zinc, and protein oppose the effects of iron. and iron absorption depends a lot on personality, ambitious Type A people absorb much more iron than laid-back Type B people.

So if I want to move more to Type A more iron is the way to go? Is there a more healthy way do to it?
 

lampofred

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So if I want to move more to Type A more iron is the way to go? Is there a more healthy way do to it?

Vitamin A probably is healthier. I think it increases ambition and drive. Whereas vitamin D is more relaxing, makes you more content.
 

redsun

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So if I want to move more to Type A more iron is the way to go? Is there a more healthy way do to it?

Type A is high histamine, possible elevated dopamine (some have low) personalities. I do think iron is pro-histamine because it is generally pro-thyroid (which raises dopamine and histamine) if you are iron deficient and reduces prolactin.
 

milkboi

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Type A is high histamine, possible elevated dopamine (some have low) personalities. I do think iron is pro-histamine because it is generally pro-thyroid (which raises dopamine and histamine) if you are iron deficient and reduces prolactin.

High histamine... up to a point right? Or is your standpoint that high histamine won’t lead to allergic reactions ever? Because I know if I’m super inflamed and feel sick, motivation and energy levels will be non-existent.
 

redsun

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High histamine... up to a point right? Or is your standpoint that high histamine won’t lead to allergic reactions ever? Because I know if I’m super inflamed and feel sick, motivation and energy levels will be non-existent.

High histamine people do have allergies and deal with them frequently especially during certain times of the year obviously. When their allergies and sickness (like when they get flu) overwhelm them do they die down temporarily while they recover because they have no choice.

High histamine has just as many problems as low histamine. Thats why its better to be in the middle or slightly elevated and have good dopamine levels. Relying on super high histamine has many downsides though it has the obvious upsides as well. Thing is those with super high histamine have a genetic thing that predisposes them to it and its not much of a choice for them.
 

Pablo Cruise

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I don't take letrozole for hairloss or gyno, I have vericocele which has caused enlarged prostate which blocks my urine output, I've tried dozens of drugs and supplements and the only thing that increases urine flow is letrozole. But I thought I'd mention it as well. Interestingly enough, after years of letrozole, my serium Estradiol is in the middle range of "normal". So I must have insane aromatase rates naturally. Oh and for some reason that I have not been able to figure out letrozole is the only AI that works, I've tried Exemestane and another one which I can't remember to no avail.

I didn't know there is a shampoo with aspirin in it, but what I make works and is cheap so no need to change what's working.
Off the top of my head, yes, pun.....aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid. The previous reader claims ASA converts or metabolizes to S.A. on the scalp. I don't know that happens. He may be correct.
 

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