Advice Needed For My New Labs, High Free Testosterone, High Estrone (E1)

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Makrosky

Makrosky

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High T will invariably lead to high E1, E2 or E3 as this is the way the body regulates the negative feedback mechanism. As another user pointed out, probably too much DHEA used. If scrotum application is done I would not use more than 2mg-3mg as I mentioned in the thread on raising serum androgens. DHEA raises mainly estrone, so nothing unexpected there. DHEA also lowers SHBG, which also explains the high free T. I would lower the Pansterone usage and retest in 2 weeks. Aspirin and vitamin E, can keep (usually) the estrone in check. I am wondering how high the estrone would have been without the EstroBan in your stack...

haidut, thanks for answering! A few things if you have some time to answer :

1.- Do you mean increasing T will always increase E ? Or do you mean E will increase only when T reaches very high levels ?

2.- I'm not sure I understand your vitamin E suggestion. Vitamin E can also raise testosterone so even if it inhibits aromatization, when I stop the E, the excess testosterone (at least in my case) will be aromatized again. So back to the same point. Or am I getting it wrong ?

3.- Do you have any idea why my semen volume has decreased a lot ? This didn't happen during Q1 and Q2 of this year in which I was also using pansterone and k2 on balls, etc... And maybe my estrone was high (didn't test it though, just a guess). This particular problem started happening a few weeks ago. Do you see things in my labs that can relate to that problem ? FSH, LH? The only things I did differently the weeks before the problem setted was using red light on my body, thyroid and testes, Kuinone on my balls two or three days, some doses of 5a-DHP (like maybe 4 drops 4 days) ... And the usual things I've been taking all year (oxidal, b vitamins, magnesium, tianeptine, etc.)

Or I am thinking that maybe this time with the combination of K2 on testes + redlight on testes skyrocketed the testosterone in just a few days?? Or I fried my balls ? Libido is high though.

I'm really puzzled and worried about it. Any help will be very appreciated.
 
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Makrosky

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how do you actually feel btw?
In fact I don't particularly feel anything bad besides some mood and energy decrease which could be due to other things, I can't say for sure it's because of this. The problem is that as days go by it gets worse since I don't take pregnenolone (I don't want to mess up my hormones anymore until I fix this) nor other supps. So we'll see how it goes. What worries me most is the semen volume thing. That is not normal at all. I don't want to endup into an endocrinologyst/urologist MD office :-|
 
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haidut

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haidut, thanks for answering! A few things if you have some time to answer :

1.- Do you mean increasing T will always increase E ? Or do you mean E will increase only when T reaches very high levels ?

2.- I'm not sure I understand your vitamin E suggestion. Vitamin E can also raise testosterone so even if it inhibits aromatization, when I stop the E, the excess testosterone (at least in my case) will be aromatized again. So back to the same point. Or am I getting it wrong ?

3.- Do you have any idea why my semen volume has decreased a lot ? This didn't happen during Q1 and Q2 of this year in which I was also using pansterone and k2 on balls, etc... And maybe my estrone was high (didn't test it though, just a guess). This particular problem started happening a few weeks ago. Do you see things in my labs that can relate to that problem ? FSH, LH? The only things I did differently the weeks before the problem setted was using red light on my body, thyroid and testes, Kuinone on my balls two or three days, some doses of 5a-DHP (like maybe 4 drops 4 days) ... And the usual things I've been taking all year (oxidal, b vitamins, magnesium, tianeptine, etc.)

Or I am thinking that maybe this time with the combination of K2 on testes + redlight on testes skyrocketed the testosterone in just a few days?? Or I fried my balls ? Libido is high though.

I'm really puzzled and worried about it. Any help will be very appreciated.

As for #1 - it depends. In some people any increase in T will bump E as well. On others T will bump E only after it goes above range. The main point is that E is the mechanism through which T triggers negative feedback mechanism, so at some point it HAS to raise E to signal the pituitary there is enough androgen in the system.

2. I have never seem an issue where vitamin E raised T to the point of causing issues with high estrogen due to aromatization upon stopping vitamin E. Maybe it happens with other AI drugs but I have not seen it happen with vitamin E.

3. Semen volume depends on T and E levels. Bodybuilders with high androgens report almost no semen volume, so the high free T and E are likely involved.
 

raypeatclips

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Bodybuilders with high androgens report almost no semen volume, so the high free T and E are likely involved.

Bodybuilders general aim to maximise testosterone and keep estrogen as low as possible. What do you think is a better plan? Testosterone at the higher end of range, estrogen low but not completely zeroed?
 

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Bodybuilders general aim to maximise testosterone and keep estrogen as low as possible. What do you think is a better plan? Testosterone at the higher end of range, estrogen low but not completely zeroed?

When cortisol and estrogen are at the low end of the range (due to good metabolism and low PUFA) there is not much need for high T. The main purpose of high T in bodybuilders is to oppose cortisol and keep them anabolic.
 

Wagner83

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Do you consider his 680ish T levels to be so high as to lead to elevated estrogens? This is not top of the range. Do you think free T is relevant? (given what you posted on carrier proteins etc..)
 
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Makrosky

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As for #1 - it depends. In some people any increase in T will bump E as well. On others T will bump E only after it goes above range. The main point is that E is the mechanism through which T triggers negative feedback mechanism, so at some point it HAS to raise E to signal the pituitary there is enough androgen in the system.

2. I have never seem an issue where vitamin E raised T to the point of causing issues with high estrogen due to aromatization upon stopping vitamin E. Maybe it happens with other AI drugs but I have not seen it happen with vitamin E.

3. Semen volume depends on T and E levels. Bodybuilders with high androgens report almost no semen volume, so the high free T and E are likely involved.
All right haidut, thanks! I'll report in 3/4 weeks when I retest.
 
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3. Semen volume depends on T and E levels. Bodybuilders with high androgens report almost no semen volume, so the high free T and E are likely involved.
haidut, do you think the semen volume will come back to normal once my T and E levels get down ?
 

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haidut, do you think the semen volume will come back to normal once my T and E levels get down ?

It should. At least it seems to come back in bodybuilders heavily abusing steroids and your "stack" is a lot milder.
 
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Ok guys. So the last test was from 23/Oct/2017. I just retested (not all markers, only the ones that were off the limits) on 21/Nov/2017.

Luteinizing Hormone LH : 4,6 U/L (Men : 1,5 - 34,6 U/L) (Before : 7 U/L)
FSH : 3,5 U/L (1,4-18,1 U/L) (Before : 6 U/L)
Free Testosterone : 49,76 pg/mL (<=23,08 pg/mL) (Before : 53,48 pg/mL)
17-Beta Estradiol : 22 pg/mL (10-50 pg/mL) (Before : 36 pg/mL)
Estrone (E1) : 67,0 pg/mL (25,1-91,4 pg/mL) (Before : 120,8 pg/mL)

So... mixed results. Free T almost the same, I would say such small change is unrelevant. LH and FSH going even further down!! :-( :-( :-(

And at least one good news... Estrone and Estradiol really diminished.

During this month I didn't take any supplements besides two things :

- 500 mg aspirin daily with 2 tsp of collagen to ease the possible digestive discomfort of the aspirin.
- Tianeptine almost daily, I needed it for mood reasons because this whole thing made me very depressed.
- I did one week of the famous @ecstatichamster white button mushroom thing.

Nothing else. Zero. Nada.

The semen volume has improved a little bit I would say but really far from going back to normal.

What do you guys think ? Any suggestions ? Ideas, comments ?

@haidut is it possible that the daily aspirin has diminished the E1 and E2 while prevented the FreeT to go down ? In this case, this is not a permanent solution I guess because the freeT has to go back to normal so the body stops the feedbackloop.

@Serotoninja @milk_lover @Wagner83 @raypeatclips
 

milk_lover

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Ok guys. So the last test was from 23/Oct/2017. I just retested (not all markers, only the ones that were off the limits) on 21/Nov/2017.

Luteinizing Hormone LH : 4,6 U/L (Men : 1,5 - 34,6 U/L) (Before : 7 U/L)
FSH : 3,5 U/L (1,4-18,1 U/L) (Before : 6 U/L)
Free Testosterone : 49,76 pg/mL (<=23,08 pg/mL) (Before : 53,48 pg/mL)
17-Beta Estradiol : 22 pg/mL (10-50 pg/mL) (Before : 36 pg/mL)
Estrone (E1) : 67,0 pg/mL (25,1-91,4 pg/mL) (Before : 120,8 pg/mL)

So... mixed results. Free T almost the same, I would say such small change is unrelevant. LH and FSH going even further down!! :-( :-( :-(

And at least one good news... Estrone and Estradiol really diminished.

During this month I didn't take any supplements besides two things :

- 500 mg aspirin daily with 2 tsp of collagen to ease the possible digestive discomfort of the aspirin.
- Tianeptine almost daily, I needed it for mood reasons because this whole thing made me very depressed.
- I did one week of the famous @ecstatichamster white button mushroom thing.

Nothing else. Zero. Nada.

The semen volume has improved a little bit I would say but really far from going back to normal.

What do you guys think ? Any suggestions ? Ideas, comments ?

@haidut is it possible that the daily aspirin has diminished the E1 and E2 while prevented the FreeT to go down ? In this case, this is not a permanent solution I guess because the freeT has to go back to normal so the body stops the feedbackloop.

@Serotoninja @milk_lover @Wagner83 @raypeatclips
Dude this looks good I think. LH and FSH are from the pituitary hormones, which you want to be low similar to TSH and prolactin. So having them almost halved is a good thing I think. Maybe not putting anything on the testicles was a good move from your part. Also congrats for the huge reduction in estrogen! Were you using andro on the testicles or anywhere when your results were high? I believe Peat spoke about andro affecting the pituitary gland in one of the emails..
 

Wagner83

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Like I said before I'm not knowledgeable in any way but I don't understand why you freak out, maybe @haidut can share his thoughs on whether there is anything worrying (besides the higher estrone levels in the blood). I think it shows the wbm have pretty potent properties.
 
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Makrosky

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Dude this looks good I think. LH and FSH are from the pituitary hormones, which you want to be low similar to TSH and prolactin. So having them almost halved is a good thing I think. Maybe not putting anything on the testicles was a good move from your part. Also congrats for the huge reduction in estrogen! Were you using andro on the testicles or anywhere when your results were high? I believe Peat spoke about andro affecting the pituitary gland in one of the emails..
No I never used andro on the testicles and I never used andro more than 1-2 drops topically and that was like... maybe 5-6 times in months.

Well FSH is needed for fertility and sperm production. Too low... probably not good.
 
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Makrosky

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Like I said before I'm not knowledgeable in any way but I don't understand why you freak out, maybe @haidut can share his thoughs on whether there is anything worrying (besides the higher estrone levels in the blood). I think it shows the wbm have pretty potent properties.

My friend, if you would see your semen volume drastically reduced to a point where it was almost inexistent believe me, you would freak out. Heavily.

We don't know if it was the aspirin or the WBM but both made a great work together it seems.
 
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Makrosky

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OK I did not know it was almost non existent.
It lasted for a week or so I think it was the peak. Now it's recovering again but very very slowly it seems. Also the "thikness" of it is not as it used to be. That's why I'm so concerned.
 

Wagner83

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It lasted for a week or so I think it was the peak. Now it's recovering again but very very slowly it seems. Also the "thikness" of it is not as it used to be. That's why I'm so concerned.
COuld you have depleted some nutrients? Zinc comes to mind, did you try eating oysters and more shellfish? Retrograde ejaculation, dry orgasms maybe?
 
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Makrosky

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COuld you have depleted some nutrients? Zinc comes to mind, did you try eating oysters and more shellfish? Retrograde ejaculation, dry orgasms maybe?
Shellfish yes, quite often. Red meat also which is not very Peat but has decent ammounts of zinc. Oysters I don't have access to them unfortunately. Maybe. I would take it as a supplement but I don't want to take supplements right now. If in 1 month more I don't see progress I will consult an urologist/endocrinologist just to hear their point of view.
 

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