DHEA + Progesterone == Pro-anabolic, Testosterone-promoting?

[tankasnowgod]

If only progesterone didn't make my flaccid penis shrink up would be such a good thing to use.

Did you try it along with an androgen, like DHEA, DHT, or Androsterone? Haidut's thread talks specifically about antagonizing GR, mostly in muscles, and agonizing AR in the male sex organs.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Interesting, how much DHEA do you take with it, and do you divide the doses? I tried 100mg preg with 5 dhea for a few days and felt off so I stopped. I may retry it for longer. TIA

I take 5 to 15mg DHEA every few days.

 

[Jing]

Did you try it along with an androgen, like DHEA, DHT, or Androsterone? Haidut's thread talks specifically about antagonizing GR, mostly in muscles, and agonizing AR in the male sex organs.

Tried it with pansterone and androsterone

 

[Dobbler]

This is offtopic but does aspirin interfere with pregnenolone absorption or function negatively?

 

[vulture]

This is offtopic but does aspirin interfere with pregnenolone absorption or function negatively?

Would be great if you search or create a new thread, avoiding to add pages on off topics

 

[Pufas Shmoofas]

-

 

[nbznj]

Do we have pictures or social media accounts of such an elite bodybuilder taking prog+dhea with seemingly better results or equivalent to test cycles whilst avoiding suppression? Or anyone in this thread claiming such gains surely monitored them? Being into bodybuilding myself I track my progress with photos for sure. Any edge is welcome

 

[iPeat]

I took 25 mg progesterone with 5 mg DHEA, twice per day for 4 days. First day was ok. After that I got more and more lethargic. On the 4th day, when I took my afternoon dose, I got the progesterone "drunk" feeling really bad and couldn't think straight with zero energy for roughly 48 hours.

I've experimented with progesterone quite a bit and the "drunk" feeling when I take too much usually goes away in a few hours. This episode was a little scary. I still don't feel completely normal and it's been 3 days since I took the last dose.

Maybe a ratio issue. Progesterone sometimes makes me feel great and sometimes terrible with the same dose. I don't get it.

Just wanted to add my experience. I'm a 37 year-old male.

 

[opethfeldt]

Do we have pictures or social media accounts of such an elite bodybuilder taking prog+dhea with seemingly better results or equivalent to test cycles whilst avoiding suppression? Or anyone in this thread claiming such gains surely monitored them? Being into bodybuilding myself I track my progress with photos for sure. Any edge is welcome

This. I love prog and DHEA as a combo, mentally. However, I've never notived muscle gains and in fact, my muscles look worse most of the time. DHEA+preg is far better for muscle, in my experience.

 

[schultz]

you can't patent vitamin e and progesterone mixed in a bottle

US Patent for Treatment of progesterone deficiency and related conditions with a stable composition of progesterone and tocopherols Patent (Patent # 4,439,432 issued March 27, 1984) - Justia Patents Search

From Newsletter "Progesterone, Thyroid, Cancer" - Nov. 2002
"When I applied for the patent on the formulation of progesterone in vitamin E, the patent examiner told me that I must remove any mention of cancer if I wanted my application to be approved."


From "Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients" - "Letters to the Editor" - June 1996
"The progesterone/vitamin E combination, which I patented, is stably dissolved so that it can be absorbed by any route - transdermal, oral, rectal, or vaginal, but
I have not licensed my patent to any of the companies such as Yamcom/Phillips Nutritionals or ProGest/Transitions/Professional & Technical Services, which advertise creams for the treatment of menopause. Some creams contain progesterone, some creams contain vitamin E. some contain neither. The patented progesterone-in-vitamin-E products are sold only in Eugene, Oregon.

The order in which ingredients are listed on the label must be in the order of their quantity in the product. Pro-Gest's advertisement claims that "For over 17 years, physicians have recommended Pro-Gest to their menopausal patients," but I participated in the design of some of the original progesterone lotions which were sold
by Professional and Technical Services (while I was "President" of that corporation), and those early formulations (I still have copies of the various brand-name labels) essentially had no effective shelf life, because of their poor formulation; the progesterone was crystallized by the time it arrived from the factory. The composition of
the various Professional & Technical Services products, at least according to their labels, has changed over the years. It is incorrect to say that Pro-Gest has existed for 17 years. One formulation, for example, showed a higher content of vitamin E than of progesterone, meaning that there was sufficient vitamin E to dissolve the progesterone.
and thus to infringe my patent. When I pointed this out to MacFarland, he didn't want to pay me royalties, so he obligingly changed the formulation. "Cielo 2000" another of MacFarland's previous products, moved vitamin E far down on its label, meaning that its solvent action was very limited. My samples of Pro-Gest contain massive amounts of crystals, indicating that they didn't copy my patented composition.

A friend quoted one manufacturer of a progesterone cream, as saying, when she told him of my patent, "that's easy to get around.'" But a truthful label will say in a simple way whether or not it is violating my patent, by indicating the relative amounts of vitamin E and progesterone. Lab analysis shows that the products licensed under my patent contain by far the largest amount of progesterone of any product tested, hut the important point is that the progesterone is dissolved in vitamin E, and is completely available biologically. Crystalline progesterone isn't available transdermally. and when it is ingested, it is quickly metabolized by the bowel and the liver, into a derivative of progesterone, which has a certain biological activity, but which is chemically and biologically distinct from progesterone."

 

[Fletcher]

Try a higher ratio of progesteroneHEA. The effects are nothing like the lower ratio. Just as you said, the lower ratio seems to affect mood more than anything else but the higher ratio is remarkably anti-catabolic.

Could you use 6-keto P4 (instead of progeterone) to get the same effect, Haidut?

 

[johnwester130]

US Patent for Treatment of progesterone deficiency and related conditions with a stable composition of progesterone and tocopherols Patent (Patent # 4,439,432 issued March 27, 1984) - Justia Patents Search

From Newsletter "Progesterone, Thyroid, Cancer" - Nov. 2002
"When I applied for the patent on the formulation of progesterone in vitamin E, the patent examiner told me that I must remove any mention of cancer if I wanted my application to be approved."


From "Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients" - "Letters to the Editor" - June 1996
"The progesterone/vitamin E combination, which I patented, is stably dissolved so that it can be absorbed by any route - transdermal, oral, rectal, or vaginal, but
I have not licensed my patent to any of the companies such as Yamcom/Phillips Nutritionals or ProGest/Transitions/Professional & Technical Services, which advertise creams for the treatment of menopause. Some creams contain progesterone, some creams contain vitamin E. some contain neither. The patented progesterone-in-vitamin-E products are sold only in Eugene, Oregon.

The order in which ingredients are listed on the label must be in the order of their quantity in the product. Pro-Gest's advertisement claims that "For over 17 years, physicians have recommended Pro-Gest to their menopausal patients," but I participated in the design of some of the original progesterone lotions which were sold
by Professional and Technical Services (while I was "President" of that corporation), and those early formulations (I still have copies of the various brand-name labels) essentially had no effective shelf life, because of their poor formulation; the progesterone was crystallized by the time it arrived from the factory. The composition of
the various Professional & Technical Services products, at least according to their labels, has changed over the years. It is incorrect to say that Pro-Gest has existed for 17 years. One formulation, for example, showed a higher content of vitamin E than of progesterone, meaning that there was sufficient vitamin E to dissolve the progesterone.
and thus to infringe my patent. When I pointed this out to MacFarland, he didn't want to pay me royalties, so he obligingly changed the formulation. "Cielo 2000" another of MacFarland's previous products, moved vitamin E far down on its label, meaning that its solvent action was very limited. My samples of Pro-Gest contain massive amounts of crystals, indicating that they didn't copy my patented composition.

A friend quoted one manufacturer of a progesterone cream, as saying, when she told him of my patent, "that's easy to get around.'" But a truthful label will say in a simple way whether or not it is violating my patent, by indicating the relative amounts of vitamin E and progesterone. Lab analysis shows that the products licensed under my patent contain by far the largest amount of progesterone of any product tested, hut the important point is that the progesterone is dissolved in vitamin E, and is completely available biologically. Crystalline progesterone isn't available transdermally. and when it is ingested, it is quickly metabolized by the bowel and the liver, into a derivative of progesterone, which has a certain biological activity, but which is chemically and biologically distinct from progesterone."

are onasnatural in violation of the patent

 

[schultz]

are onasnatural in violation of the patent

I'm not sure. It seems to be, but I don't know much about patent laws, etc. Has Ray's expired? I believe Ray's is also a 10% progesterone solution and I think I remember him saying that he made it that and not 50% vitamin E to 50% progesterone because he thought people might anesthetize themselves if it was too concentrated.

Edit: Maybe they are licensed to sell it?

 

[fabiomln]

In an interview with Danny Roddy, @haidut mentioned that someone he knows is using DHEA and progesterone in combination. The acquaintance is a former user of anabolic steroids and apparently cannot tell the different between the DHEA/Progesterone combination and his former "stack."

....

Anyway, has anyone else tried something like this?.

Yes, I usually use about 20mg of progesterone (tipically Progest-E) and about 5mg of Dhea.
Before I started using these hormones I had gained muscle mass and strenght. It was quite strange because I am about 58 years old (56 when I started in gaining).
Obviously I was doing weightlifting, but it was not the first time. I started doing two things in that period: earthing and using Rhodiola. So when I noted I was gaining muscle mass and strenght, I went to consult again the two books about earthing and rhodiola. Both of then stated that more strenght was possible.
Later I stared to take more regularly progesterone and dhea (before I took them only occasionally). I can say that I have not lost muscle and strenght but I did't gain more. So, I don't know if prog and thea are anabolic but surely they are not anti anabolic.
The only think I noted is that I am more moved to emotions (I don't know how to tell in english) but not more submissive.

 

[baccheion]

Yes, I usually use about 20mg of progesterone (tipically Progest-E) and about 5mg of Dhea.
Before I started using these hormones I had gained muscle mass and strenght. It was quite strange because I am about 58 years old (56 when I started in gaining).
Obviously I was doing weightlifting, but it was not the first time. I started doing two things in that period: earthing and using Rhodiola. So when I noted I was gaining muscle mass and strenght, I went to consult again the two books about earthing and rhodiola. Both of then stated that more strenght was possible.
Later I stared to take more regularly progesterone and dhea (before I took them only occasionally). I can say that I have not lost muscle and strenght but I did't gain more. So, I don't know if prog and thea are anabolic but surely they are not anti anabolic.
The only think I noted is that I am more moved to emotions (I don't know how to tell in english) but not more submissive.

Histamine increases lacrimation (water flow from eyes). Acetylcholine as well. Those taking something like alpha-GPC (ie, choline) sometimes notice easier tearing and finding things "moving", an effect of higher (but not high) acetylcholine.

If progesterone opposes serotonin, acetylcholine increases. On the other hand, it increases GABA. GABA opposes acetylcholine, but is stimulating at lower amounts (maybe due to opposition of serotonin?).

 

[Mauritio]

What about combining 6ketoP4 with DEAH? Wouldn't this make sense, since some complained about getting drowsy and 6ketoP4 lacks the sedation affect of Progesterone...
Or let me ask the other way around: would you guys think there is any addiotional benefit to add DHEA to 6ketoP4 or does it already have all the anabolic strength one needs ?

 

[Momado965]

Yes, I can confirm this. A ratio of up to 3:1 (progesteroneHEA) seems to work best for non-athletes but for people doing heavy lifting even higher ratios seem to work even better. The bodybuilder I was referring to uses up to 11:1 ratio and says it fully replaces his T injections without any difference, and in fact does not seem to suppress him. He has not done blood tests yet, but will do them in August and will post the results here.
Progesterone's blocking of muscle catabolism actually exceeds that of testosterone as it is a better/stronger GR antagonist than T. However, progesterone is considered catabolic hormone in men similar to T3 which really baffles me because I have not seen such effects from either. Both may have such effects in very high doses but in doses under 300mg progesterone, when combined with DHEA, seems to be remarkably anti-catabolic. T3 also has anti-cortisol effects and in lower doses it actually leads to decrease in fat and increase in muscle, partially due to thyrodi increasing androgen synthesis (especially the 5-AR derived ones).
I think his regimen is 5mg DHEA + 50mg progesterone, taken 3 times daily. He says that this removes any bloat that he used to get with T and that this combo feels equivalent to about 75mg injected T daily.

Do you know it the guy used keto p4 or regular progesterone?

 

[brix]

What about combining 6ketoP4 with DEAH? Wouldn't this make sense, since some complained about getting drowsy and 6ketoP4 lacks the sedation affect of Progesterone...
Or let me ask the other way around: would you guys think there is any addiotional benefit to add DHEA to 6ketoP4 or does it already have all the anabolic strength one needs ?

I’m taking 6 keto p4 and DHEA/pregnenolone at around 2mg each per day. I can say that I’m gaining weight and feeling stronger in my workouts.
It feels better than taking 2mg test base.

 

[Mauritio]

I’m taking 6 keto p4 and DHEA/pregnenolone at around 2mg each per day. I can say that I’m gaining weight and feeling stronger in my workouts.
It feels better than taking 2mg test base.

Interesting gaining muscle weight ? Or fat.
How would you compare it to 6keto without pansterone ?

 

[brix]

Interesting gaining muscle weight ? Or fat.
How would you compare it to 6keto without pansterone ?

Muscle and maybe a little fat, however I think the fat gain is unrelated.