Low Dose Testosterone - Without Shutdown?

[jack_zen]

Hello everyone,

this is my first post, but I already read a lot in this very interesting forum.
I am a 31 years old male from Germany following a peat inspired diet, but still have some health issues.
Low energy, tiredness, low motivation and low libido are the main problems.

I recently did some Saliva hormone tests which indicate

- relatively low testosterone
- very low progesterone
- Estradiol & estriol in the normal low range
- high cortisol in the morning
- very (too) low cortisol in the afternoon and evening
- low DHEA-S

found a doctor which is very open minded to work with natural hormones.
He thinks my main problems are the adrenals, because of the low cortisol and dhea.

I already started to take 1 grain NDT, Preg 12,5 mg daily and DHEA 10-15mg daily (all oral), which feels good.

The doctor subscribed me a cream with 5mg cortisol and 5mg dhea to support my adrenals. Which I don't know if I should use, because of the bad opinion Peat and everyone here has on cortisol.

the second thing he will subscribe me is a cream with 1% testosterone and 0,5% progesterone.

My main questions are:
1.) will the testo creme shut down my own production? or is this dose (1g of the cream) okay? I read somewhere that Peat says about 5mg testosterone per day is safe?
2.) should I try to use the cortisol/dhea cream or is more cortisol always bad?
3.) anybody experienced that snoring improved with progesterone supplementing?

thank you in advance :)

 

[jack_zen]

I sent this to Peat and here is his answer :) :

High cortisol is the morning is usually caused by low thyroid function. Blood sugar falls too low at night if thyroid is low, and that leads to inflammation in the intestine. The cortisol rises before dawn, correcting the hypoglymia. Low thyroid also reduces production of pregnenolone, DHEA, progesterone and testosterone. If you cholesterol is at least normal, supplementing thyroid should increase those steroids. A deficiency of vitamin D and calcium (or too much phosphate) intensifies the problem of slightly low thyroid function. A supplement of 50 mg of pregnenolone is safe, and with a few milligrams of progesterone, 10 mg of DHEA is safe. A young man should make about 4 mg of testosterone per day, so the cream would probably provide too much, increasing the risk of raising estrogen. Cortisol activates aromatase, increasing the conversion of DHEA and testosterone to estrogen. Progesterone and aspirin inhibit that enzyme. Vitamin D, thyroid, and progesterone all improve the quality of sleep and can prevent snoring. A blood level of more than 50 ng/ml of vitamin D corresponds to better sleep. Milk and cheese are good sources of calcium.

 

[jack_zen]

I asked further:


Thanks so much for your friendly reply.

So do you think it would be a good thing to slowly increase my dose of NDT(4:1 ratio T4:T3) to maybe 3 or 4 grains?

Would it be good to take some of it before bed?

And I read that too low cortisol during the day can prevent T3 from reaching the cells. What do you think about that?

My Cholesterol (230) and Vitamin D levels seem to be good (60 ng/ml) and I eat cheese daily.

but I also took Vitamin A in high doses (25.000-50.000 Units/day) for a long period to treat acne and keratosis pilaris (never disappeared fully)

Could it be that this dose of A was too much and made me more hypothyroid?

Maybe I will try the effects of a very small amount of the cream to get about 1mg testosterone from it. While taking some aspirin, progesterone and maybe zinc to prevent conversion to estrogen.


Ray answered:

Checking your temperature and heart rate at waking and midday is a good way to watch how you are responding to a certain dose of thyroid. The products vary in quality. Taking some of it at bedtime usually improves sleep quality. Cortisol doesn’t affect T3 reaching cells. The effect of vitamin A on thyroid is only temporary; they work together, and you use more vitamin A when your thyroid function is higher.

 

[jack_zen]

Got my my testosterone/progesterone cream yesterday.
It has 1.5% testosterone and 1% progesterone.

I started with 0.1 gram yesterday.
So this should be 1,5mg testosterone and 1mg progesterone.

I didn't notice much of a effect yet. Feeling quite good but a lot of loud snoring this night.
Anybody has experience in dosing testosterone and progesterone?

when I get these 1,5 mg T, will it add up to my own production or will my body just decrease the production so that the level will stay the same?

Peat says a young man produces about 4mg T a day.
Would it be a better idea to try to get these 4mg completely from the cream?

 

[Nebula]

Got my my testosterone/progesterone cream yesterday.
It has 1.5% testosterone and 1% progesterone.

I started with 0.1 gram yesterday.
So this should be 1,5mg testosterone and 1mg progesterone.

I didn't notice much of a effect yet. Feeling quite good but a lot of loud snoring this night.
Anybody has experience in dosing testosterone and progesterone?

when I get these 1,5 mg T, will it add up to my own production or will my body just decrease the production so that the level will stay the same?

Peat says a young man produces about 4mg T a day.
Would it be a better idea to try to get these 4mg completely from the cream?

Where are you applying the cream? Have you tried the scrotum? Never tried it myself but some studies have shown that application of a very small amount of T on the scrotum doesn't cause shutdown, but instead stimulates more T production. I've been curious to try this, but haven't found a good product that I could reliably dose such a small amount. I've been thinking of buying some testosterone base powder and dissolving it in a bottle of pansterone so there is maybe only 0.5 mg per drop. It might also be supportive to stack it with topical K2 or gonadin on the scrotum as well to provide more of the raw ingredients for gonadal function to further decrease the possibility for shut down.

 

[jack_zen]

do you know where I can find these studies?

will try it on scrotum later :)

 

[Nebula]

do you know where I can find these studies?

will try it on scrotum later :)

Pharmacokinetics of testosterone cream applied to scrotal skin. - PubMed - NCBI
This one shows Scrotal T increases serum T a lot more than T applied to other areas. I thought I saw a study that demonstrated small amounts don't cause shutdown, but I don't remember which study that was. I'll see if I can find it later today.

 

[jack_zen]

Pharmacokinetics of testosterone cream applied to scrotal skin. - PubMed - NCBI
This one shows Scrotal T increases serum T a lot more than T applied to other areas. I thought I saw a study that demonstrated small amounts don't cause shutdown, but I don't remember which study that was. I'll see if I can find it later today.

thank you!
would be great if you can find it.

I applied a little bit on scrotum 2 hours ago, feeling good, but nothing dramatic yet

 

[jack_zen]

Progesterone and testosterone in combination act in the hypothalamus of castrated rams to regulate the secretion of LH. - PubMed - NCBI
do I understand correctly that a combination of progesterone and testosterone causes more androgen suppression through inhibiting LH ?

that would mean my combination cream is not a good idea.
I am feeling quite good since using it, but libido is very low.

would be great if someone could check it, as english is not my first language and I am not good at reading studies. thank you

 

[jack_zen]

US20070167418A1 - Progesterone/testosterone cream for erectile dysfunction - Google Patents
while this study shows that a combination of T and Prog seems to be a working treatment for ED

opinions?

 

[Beastmode]

I sent this to Peat and here is his answer :) :

High cortisol is the morning is usually caused by low thyroid function. Blood sugar falls too low at night if thyroid is low, and that leads to inflammation in the intestine. The cortisol rises before dawn, correcting the hypoglymia. Low thyroid also reduces production of pregnenolone, DHEA, progesterone and testosterone. If you cholesterol is at least normal, supplementing thyroid should increase those steroids. A deficiency of vitamin D and calcium (or too much phosphate) intensifies the problem of slightly low thyroid function. A supplement of 50 mg of pregnenolone is safe, and with a few milligrams of progesterone, 10 mg of DHEA is safe. A young man should make about 4 mg of testosterone per day, so the cream would probably provide too much, increasing the risk of raising estrogen. Cortisol activates aromatase, increasing the conversion of DHEA and testosterone to estrogen. Progesterone and aspirin inhibit that enzyme. Vitamin D, thyroid, and progesterone all improve the quality of sleep and can prevent snoring. A blood level of more than 50 ng/ml of vitamin D corresponds to better sleep. Milk and cheese are good sources of calcium.

In a recent email, Peat emphasized the vitamin d levels and calcium intake to lower cortisol before taking pregnenolone. Those are interesting points about the snoring as my wife says I do at the beginning of sleep and stop. I may try that stack (vitamin d, thyroid and progesterone) right before bed to see if it changes.

 

[golder]

Where are you applying the cream? Have you tried the scrotum? Never tried it myself but some studies have shown that application of a very small amount of T on the scrotum doesn't cause shutdown, but instead stimulates more T production. I've been curious to try this, but haven't found a good product that I could reliably dose such a small amount. I've been thinking of buying some testosterone base powder and dissolving it in a bottle of pansterone so there is maybe only 0.5 mg per drop. It might also be supportive to stack it with topical K2 or gonadin on the scrotum as well to provide more of the raw ingredients for gonadal function to further decrease the possibility for shut down.

Really keen on also adding this to my bottle of tocopherol Pansterone. Any idea on how much of the base powder you would need to add to a full bottle of Pansterone? How does one even dissolve it (pardon the ignorance). Cheers man!

 

[Nebula]

Really keen on also adding this to my bottle of tocopherol Pansterone. Any idea on how much of the base powder you would need to add to a full bottle of Pansterone? How does one even dissolve it (pardon the ignorance). Cheers man!

Never done it myself, but I think with the tocopherol formula you could heat the bottle up in a pan of warm water and stir the power until it’s dissolved. I’m not sure what the optimal ratio of T to preg/dhea would be, but it could probably absorb 360mg total so there would be 1mg T per drop. Does that sound possible @haidut?

 

[Mattlebl]

Thanx guys! Nice question and very usefull answers!

 

[brix]

I’m interested in this as well. Has anyone tried adding test to Tocovit or Pansterone yet?

Still trying to find a good source for test base. If anyone has any ideas, please DM me.