DHEA + Progesterone == Pro-anabolic, Testosterone-promoting?

Matestube

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So...did anyone ever get any anabolic effects at all from progesterone/dhea? Seems like a bunch of BS
Hardly anyone is going to notice a true anabolic or anti-catabolic effect, that is a construction of muscle fiber or at least a lack of muscle fiber loss.
What you will notice as perceived anabolism, is water and nitrogen retention from aromatizing steroids such as testosterone.
Testosterone gives you that good feeling of being full and muscularly capable thanks to the water retention.
But quit testosterone base for 3 days and see all that water disappear and lose a few pounds.

You will not notice muscle fiber construction, and progesterone + DHEA might as well be anabolic without you realizing.
 

DennisX

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Have you supplemented testosterone in the past?

As time has gone on, I have noticed biceps just getting fuller and bigger. Not anything really big for fat loss in my case, but it certainly has had some solid (and noticeable) recomp benefits. With zero weight training..

I was given some testosterone by a doctor years ago (in a cream), and noticed some bad vision changes within a week. I stopped, tried again, the same thing happened. No real benefits. But it was a really short trial. dhea and ProfMaybe it was some weird ester, maybe it was something in the cream, I don't know. Nothing like that has happened to me in the now 6 months or so of supplementation of Prog +DHEA.

Although, of note, I certainly didn't hit the "20 pounds of added muscle" I speculated about earlier. At least in my experientce, OTC Prog +DHEA is far superior to the testosterone you can get from the average doctor. But again....... lots of potential variables there. Some, notably, that could work in the Prog/DHEA favor, potentially.
Did you do labs for testosterone, DHT, DHEA and prog before and after and now?
 

RealNeat

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I have also found that progesterone and DHEA can be great for adding muscle. I started using 12 mg preg and 6 dhea on the inner elbow, and in a week or two, biceps felt and looked " jacked." Didnt get this with topical application in other areas, but it might have been rubbing off on my clothes or sheets. Review haiduts "anti catabolic" thread posted earlier, I am really impressed so far.
I wish I could ask this following question to every person who says they use topical supplements. Maybe this will inform a few people who are also confused. When a topical dose is stated I always wonder if the person is mentioning the absorbed amount or total amount used. For example, if I said I use 100mg progesterone topically the absorption depending on carrier is about 20mg. So in reality I'm taking 20mg.

So which do you mean?
Also @SonOfEurope mentions lymphatics getting over burdened with topical hormones. Do you have any references for that @SonOfEurope ?
 
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Thanks Yody,

Cortinon is something we all ought to be thankful to Haidut for... Perfect ratio he chose from his enormous knowledge on the subject.

To flush the estrogen faster, I'd advice you do large dose progesterone for 5 (five) days, between 60 and 100mg, then bring it down to 8-20 mg as you feel is most anabolic.

With a high dose you'll be very anesthesized, not just down there but the long term benefits are worth it.

Just don't drive or operate machinery, take those biggeons before bed.

It should help you get that Kratom thing out of your life, an increase in Progesterone will have pregnenolone-sparring effects, Progesterone will help normalize activity in the CNS and heal dependencies gradually but an effort must be made as I did to come off klonopin (would have been impossible without it and took me two years...)

Desk jobs can wreck you I hope you've improved posture, I work physically at the moment but I'm always careful with the shoulders.

Keto can wreck you... I never shed as much hair God... And I was only 22 or 23.

K2 will help you as will plenty of Natural vitamin C, since oranges are expensive here and I only eat them as a snack, I squeeze 2 limes for extra intake.

________

Yes - at the very beginning I did make me numb, despite feeling very horny (because of the estrogen coming out ) it's also part of the anesthetic nature of progesterone and if you pay attention you'll realize your limbs go numb faster as well - at a dose of under 25mg (which I advice be split in two) it should go away within 2 or 3 weeks.

Assuming 20mg of progesterone are accompanied by 3 or 4 mg DHEA the androgenic precursor is there so DHT will not be tanked. Free testosterone should increase and your thought pattern more towards a high dopamine state.

It's important to increase both Calcium and Magnesium while using P4, as I said its extreme anti glucocorticoid and mineralocorticoid nature makes it remove calcium from exited and estrogenized tissues and put it where it's supposed to be, in bones and PH regulation. Magnesium will inherently be affected.

When I tried to go up to 45mg the "Anesthesia" was just too much so I backed down to 26 or 28mg and added those 2mg DHEA. Libido is great but different than the more "constantly aroused" estrogenic libido of before, you are more in control and can take your time with women.

Morning "wood" 100% normal for me.. But I am indeed surprised some dudes on here are doing over 100mg without being anesthesized beyond feeling anything and they don't even take Testosterone/DHT with it, 100mg long-term is a massive dose

My original pursuit upon starting progesterone was to come off benzos, which I've accomplished so, soon I will reduce the dose to a more natural 14mg but keep the 2mg DHEA and add in a tiny drop of androsterone, my hair shedding will not come back as I've fixed my metabolism (healed ) and I won't lose muscle either... Just cut a bit of bodyfat down to 170lbs and eat as clean and lean as possible next spring on a caloric surplus, hope to reach 185 while still below 15% before repeating.

I'll be:

14 mg progesterone
2 mg DHEA
1 mg Androsterone.

Your macros seem good.... Some people do better with higher fat as long as you watch the damn Poofah, have you measured thyroid and have you tried Tyromix? I did for a short time and was hyper-energetic, your weight is perfect for your height , after you heal from this (it will take some time bro) are you looking to gain lean mass?
We’re you taking progesterone orally during all this? Also was it the oil version?
 

RPDiciple

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I used to experience this with pregnenolone and progesterone (especially progesterone.) But no longer. I often use several drops of Progest-E and lately have been taking 300mg of pregnenolone a day, and no penis problems at all.

I suspect estrogen is first flushed out of cells when you take progesterone. If you take a lot of it, the estrogen is flushed away and from then on you’re more or less golden.
Man i think that may be my thing as well. Preg, progesterone and aspirin all does this. Is there a way to make this go faster? Increase the dose or something?
 

Normal Human

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@RPDiciple @koky
That's what this person says too: Estrogen dominance
(interestingly, they're also very supportive of progesterone-usage for males)

Not sure what Ray's thoughts on that concept is, but your experience seems to mirror what they're saying on that site.

I would guess ways to mitigate/minimize the negative symptoms of the estrogen being mobilized from the tissues would be the classic Peat-things:
-Adequate thyroid function (judging by body temperature) to ensure adequate liver glucoronidation/sulfation to excrete estrogen.
-Adequate protein and carbohydrates to support the above.
-Daily carrot salad to help bind any excess estrogen in the gut to prevent reabsorption.

Personally, I haven't seen this phenomenon occur enough to feel totally confident it's the mechanism involved, but the fact that you can now tolerate all degrees of progesterone and pregenenolone without issues seems to give it some credibility in my mind.
 

RPDiciple

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@RPDiciple @koky
That's what this person says too: Estrogen dominance
(interestingly, they're also very supportive of progesterone-usage for males)

Not sure what Ray's thoughts on that concept is, but your experience seems to mirror what they're saying on that site.

I would guess ways to mitigate/minimize the negative symptoms of the estrogen being mobilized from the tissues would be the classic Peat-things:
-Adequate thyroid function (judging by body temperature) to ensure adequate liver glucoronidation/sulfation to excrete estrogen.
-Adequate protein and carbohydrates to support the above.
-Daily carrot salad to help bind any excess estrogen in the gut to prevent reabsorption.

Personally, I haven't seen this phenomenon occur enough to feel totally confident it's the mechanism involved, but the fact that you can now tolerate all degrees of progesterone and pregenenolone without issues seems to give it some credibility in my mind.
Ray never adressed this that it may be because of to much estrogen beeing flushed out from using the progesterone, that was causing the numb penis effect. I never really asked him either. But he told me that he could get it if he used above 20mg in one dose, but it went away after a day. But he also said people could use more for special things.
 
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Nice. That sounds scary as a male. What happend when you took that amount ? During and after? Did you notice anything?

It’s not a problem. It can kill erections for a few days. Everything comes back. And progesterone no longer makes my penis numb if I take it.
 

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