Progesterone+DHEA induced gyno. Options for reversal?

[Vajra]

After checking out this thread, amongst others that praised anabolic/androgenic effects of this combination, I ended up hopping on 4mg of DHEA in coconut oil + 12mg of progesterone (~30 drops of progest-E when accounting for ~15% transdermal absorption) applied on my temples each night. I went on this for around 6 weeks, and it's been a month since I stopped. I admit this was possibly reckless.
Before starting, my nipples were sometimes puffy throughout the day. It's clear I wasn't paying attention enough, because before I knew it they took on a pyramid shape and are now puffy basically all the time.
I was not aware that progesterone alone can cause its own type of gynecomastia. I came into this experiment thinking it would probably prevent it considering progesterone liberates estrogen from cells, but it seems the P4 either did so and brought it into breast tissue, or caused alveolar differentiation on its own. I've never felt any sensitivity or pain so I'm inclined to think I could be an unusual case of mostly progesterone-induced.

With that being said I'm skeptical of treating this with SERMs, side effects notwithstanding. Considering this is new tissue I have some faith it could be treated without surgery. At the moment I'm trying topical androsterone (2mg each) and vitamin E (120IU or so each) and haven't seen any improvement, but I'm on the look for options. Transdermal DHT?

 

[SonOfEurope]

What is your BF%?

Wait it out and lose a bit of fat - plenty of B viramins and gelatinous protein.

I was able to use 28mg for a year p4 withput gyno but it seems every man is is different and I warm people about DHEA past 10mg/week.

 

[SonOfEurope]

What is your BF%?

Wait it out and lose a bit of fat - plenty of B viramins and gelatinous protein.

I was able to use 28mg for a year p4 withput gyno but it seems every man is is different and I warm people about DHEA past 10mg/week.

 

[BigShoes]

After checking out this thread, amongst others that praised anabolic/androgenic effects of this combination, I ended up hopping on 4mg of DHEA in coconut oil + 12mg of progesterone (~30 drops of progest-E when accounting for ~15% transdermal absorption) applied on my temples each night. I went on this for around 6 weeks, and it's been a month since I stopped. I admit this was possibly reckless.
Before starting, my nipples were sometimes puffy throughout the day. It's clear I wasn't paying attention enough, because before I knew it they took on a pyramid shape and are now puffy basically all the time.
I was not aware that progesterone alone can cause its own type of gynecomastia. I came into this experiment thinking it would probably prevent it considering progesterone liberates estrogen from cells, but it seems the P4 either did so and brought it into breast tissue, or caused alveolar differentiation on its own. I've never felt any sensitivity or pain so I'm inclined to think I could be an unusual case of mostly progesterone-induced.

With that being said I'm skeptical of treating this with SERMs, side effects notwithstanding. Considering this is new tissue I have some faith it could be treated without surgery. At the moment I'm trying topical androsterone (2mg each) and vitamin E (120IU or so each) and haven't seen any improvement, but I'm on the look for options. Transdermal DHT?

Hi mate,

Don't pinch the area, but do you have any firm tissue behind the nipple (i.e. true glandular tissue) that is larger than about a raisin? I believe that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to reduce the size of this tissue to any significant degree without surgery once it has taken ahold. However, if it is just puffiness and sensitivity, there is a good chance that it could go away on its own as long as you stay away from any other hormones, chemicals etc.

Hormones associated with gyno are estrogen (estrone, estradiol and xeno-estrogens) and prolactin ... for what it's worth, you may want to try semen retention (no nut) for the time being. Cooming temporarily spikes prolactin levels in the blood - if you are cooming on a daily basis then you will likely be raising your prolactin levels to a higher level than they would be at baseline. This certainly would not help your problem if you are doing that.

Around 10 years ago now, I experimented w. SERMs (selective etrogen receptor modulators) to try and remove / decrease a small amount of gyno tissue (between the size of a raisin and a grape) that had already become firm - it did not work. There are specific SERMs that are used in the treatment of breast cancer that supposedly decrease the growth in the breast tissue - typically tamoxifen and raloxifene. I specifically tried raloxifene - it did nothing (that I am aware of) and did not help my problem.

I would almost always say: if you can avoid using drugs / hormones, you should - some of these things are dangerous and can have unexpected side effects that you cannot easily reverse. However, in this instance: if the area is puffy and sensitive, but you DO NOT yet have any glandular tissue, then the use of SERMs *MAY* be able to fix your problem before it takes ahold.

P.S. - tamoxifen and raloxifene are prescription drugs used to treat breast cancer. I *DO NOT* recommend you try to obtain these without a prescription from a qualified endocrinologist.

 

[BigShoes]

Hi mate,

Don't pinch the area, but do you have any firm tissue behind the nipple (i.e. true glandular tissue) that is larger than about a raisin? I believe that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to reduce the size of this tissue to any significant degree without surgery once it has taken ahold. However, if it is just puffiness and sensitivity, there is a good chance that it could go away on its own as long as you stay away from any other hormones, chemicals etc.

Hormones associated with gyno are estrogen (estrone, estradiol and xeno-estrogens) and prolactin ... for what it's worth, you may want to try semen retention (no nut) for the time being. Cooming temporarily spikes prolactin levels in the blood - if you are cooming on a daily basis then you will likely be raising your prolactin levels to a higher level than they would be at baseline. This certainly would not help your problem if you are doing that.

Around 10 years ago now, I experimented w. SERMs (selective etrogen receptor modulators) to try and remove / decrease a small amount of gyno tissue (between the size of a raisin and a grape) that had already become firm - it did not work. There are specific SERMs that are used in the treatment of breast cancer that supposedly decrease the growth in the breast tissue - typically tamoxifen and raloxifene. I specifically tried raloxifene - it did nothing (that I am aware of) and did not help my problem.

I would almost always say: if you can avoid using drugs / hormones, you should - some of these things are dangerous and can have unexpected side effects that you cannot easily reverse. However, in this instance: if the area is puffy and sensitive, but you DO NOT yet have any glandular tissue, then the use of SERMs *MAY* be able to fix your problem before it takes ahold.

P.S. - tamoxifen and raloxifene are prescription drugs used to treat breast cancer. I *DO NOT* recommend you try to obtain these without a prescription from a qualified endocrinologist.

To add one more thing to my post:

You will know best, but it could be possible that the gyno symptoms have nothing to do with the prog & DHEA in themselves. Xeno-estrogens and other contaminants have caused an epidemic of gyno amongst young men and boys - it is not uncommon to see a man with nipples poking through his shirt when you go walking around town / to the mall.

From my research, I believe the increased rates of breast tissue in men is caused by: use of plastics (in food packaging and drinks bottles), cosmetic products and laundry things like fabric softeners, perfumes, industrial agriculture, drinking water out of the tap that contains remnants of women's birth control pill chemicals, high consumption of grains and PUFAs etc.). This is another catastrophe that the-powers-that-be have inflicted on mankind in the past century - add it to the list...

Good luck, mate.

 

[Vajra]

What is your BF%?

Wait it out and lose a bit of fat - plenty of B viramins and gelatinous protein.

I was able to use 28mg for a year p4 withput gyno but it seems every man is is different and I warm people about DHEA past 10mg/week.

About 15%. I'd made precautions to not take more than 5mg DHEA/day, but I wasn't aware of any weekly limit.

Hi mate,

Don't pinch the area, but do you have any firm tissue behind the nipple (i.e. true glandular tissue) that is larger than about a raisin?

It's difficult to tell the size or shape, but there's certainly some kind of tissue beneath the nipple that's different than the surrounding area.

 

[Steve]

I thought DHEA was very safe at 5-10 mg per day, not per week.

 

[bk_]

After checking out this thread, amongst others that praised anabolic/androgenic effects of this combination, I ended up hopping on 4mg of DHEA in coconut oil + 12mg of progesterone (~30 drops of progest-E when accounting for ~15% transdermal absorption) applied on my temples each night. I went on this for around 6 weeks, and it's been a month since I stopped. I admit this was possibly reckless.
Before starting, my nipples were sometimes puffy throughout the day. It's clear I wasn't paying attention enough, because before I knew it they took on a pyramid shape and are now puffy basically all the time.
I was not aware that progesterone alone can cause its own type of gynecomastia. I came into this experiment thinking it would probably prevent it considering progesterone liberates estrogen from cells, but it seems the P4 either did so and brought it into breast tissue, or caused alveolar differentiation on its own. I've never felt any sensitivity or pain so I'm inclined to think I could be an unusual case of mostly progesterone-induced.

With that being said I'm skeptical of treating this with SERMs, side effects notwithstanding. Considering this is new tissue I have some faith it could be treated without surgery. At the moment I'm trying topical androsterone (2mg each) and vitamin E (120IU or so each) and haven't seen any improvement, but I'm on the look for options. Transdermal DHT?

I’m assuming you’re a male. How old are you? Peat recommends a conservative amount of DHEA, no more than 2mg a day for every decade after age 30.

 

[Steve]

Question to RP: "What is the optimal dose of DHEA if someone opts to supplement it orally?"
RP's response: "Its production decreases fairly steadily with age, from a daily maximum of 12 to 15 mg in the teens, to nearly zero at 90, so supplements of 5 to 10 milligrams are usually safe for middle aged people."

Young people produce about 12 to 15 milligrams of DHEA per day, and that amount decreases by about 2 mg. per day for every decade after the age of 30. This is one of the reasons that young people eat more without getting fat, and tolerate cold weather better: DHEA, like the thyroid hormone, increases our heat production and ability to burn calories. At the age of 50, about 4 mg. of DHEA per day will usually restore the level of DHEA in the blood to a youthful level. It is important to avoid taking more than needed, since some people (especially if they are deficient in progesterone, pregnenolone, or thyroid) can turn the excess into estrogen or testosterone, and large amounts of those sex hormones can disturb the function of the thymus gland and the liver.

 

[conrad0602]

Question to RP: "What is the optimal dose of DHEA if someone opts to supplement it orally?"
RP's response: "Its production decreases fairly steadily with age, from a daily maximum of 12 to 15 mg in the teens, to nearly zero at 90, so supplements of 5 to 10 milligrams are usually safe for middle aged people."

Young people produce about 12 to 15 milligrams of DHEA per day, and that amount decreases by about 2 mg. per day for every decade after the age of 30. This is one of the reasons that young people eat more without getting fat, and tolerate cold weather better: DHEA, like the thyroid hormone, increases our heat production and ability to burn calories. At the age of 50, about 4 mg. of DHEA per day will usually restore the level of DHEA in the blood to a youthful level. It is important to avoid taking more than needed, since some people (especially if they are deficient in progesterone, pregnenolone, or thyroid) can turn the excess into estrogen or testosterone, and large amounts of those sex hormones can disturb the function of the thymus gland and the liver.

Good stuff! Cheers