Curious: What was Peat wrong about, in your view?

[moa]

Not for everyone, no. When I had tested and confirmed SIBO, starch and fiber exacerbated it, simple sugars did not. I eliminated the SIBO by removing all starch and fiber from my diet. My overgrowth was caused by an underactive thyroid/hypothyroidism and intermittent fasting only exacerbates the condition.

i see, it depends on the cause, if hypothyroid then not "functional" / nerve related.

by intermittent fasting i only mean wait at least 8h without snacks, not longer. but when digestion improves, i find it more beneficial to drink fruit juice in small amounts, like a snack all day long, it's much better absorbed than drinking or during a meal, but only if upper small intestine is clean. this is my experience at least.

 

[moa]

Regarding your comment on excess zinc blocking acetylcholine, is this something you've read, or were you simply suggesting it as a possibility?

I think I've read it on this forum. normal amounts of zinc, if I'm not wrong, is required for overmethilators, that are low general histamine in the body. low histamine i think it exacerbates low acetylcholine symptoms cause both hormones are similar. i think zinc will indirectly raise acetylcholine

Stubborn Dehydration, High Blood Calcium, Low Phosphorus, Dry Mouth, Excessive Mucus

You can try taking some active B6 with a meal, as it raises histamine which plays a vital role increasing secretions such as tears, saliva (in my experience), etc. So if you get improvement in dry mouth and eyes from it that's a good sign. Also histidine + active B6 will work even better. I...

raypeatforum.com

i found on this forum that very high zinc could lower acethyl-coa, B5 dependent i think

Light sensitivity / head pressure

I’ve been really trying to get to the root my light sensitivity. For distance I have amazing vision and can see fine overall. But screens and light **** me up quickly. Headaches and distortion . It’s quite strange. Absolutely controlling my life atm. Most drs and even ppl in my life just think...

raypeatforum.com

safe intake of supplemental zinc is 10mg to 15mg long term. 25mg max.

 

[Jennifer]

i see, it depends on the cause, if hypothyroid then not "functional" / nerve related.

by intermittent fasting i only mean wait at least 8h without snacks, not longer. but when digestion improves, i find it more beneficial to drink fruit juice in small amounts, like a snack all day long, it's much better absorbed than drinking or during a meal, but only if upper small intestine is clean. this is my experience at least.

Simple sugars absorb well in my small intestine, it’s the colonic bacteria feeding foods that caused an overgrowth that crept up and colonized in my small intestine. Doctors couldn’t figure out why I had so much trapped gas in my colon. 20+ years as a vegetarian and vegan consuming an absurd amount of starch (even well-cooked it digests poorly for me) and plant roughage is why. lol

Yep, I understood what you meant by intermittent fasting. When I was hypothyroid, going hours without eating exacerbated the condition. I did much better having small, frequent meals.

 

[youngsinatra]

Simple sugars absorb well in my small intestine, it’s the colonic bacteria feeding foods that caused an overgrowth that crept up and colonized in my small intestine. Doctors couldn’t figure out why I had so much trapped gas in my colon. 20+ years as a vegetarian and vegan consuming an absurd amount of starch (even well-cooked it digests poorly for me) and plant roughage is why. lol

Yep, I understood what you meant by intermittent fasting. When I was hypothyroid, going hours without eating exacerbated the condition. I did much better having small, frequent meals.

Hey Jennifer, do you still take thyroid? :)

 

[moa]

@Jennifer vegetarian can cause zinc deficiency, needed for gut health. gas in the intestine is a sign of unbalanced bacteria, low diversity and to much "bad bacteria" to "good bacteria" ratio. we don't know exactly what bacteria, science is behind, but b. coagulans with some b2 could help. fiber is bad in this case, or should be introduced in very very small amounts.

recent science has proven that the appendice is a place where good bacteria are stored to help recolonize the gut, so in theory they will colonize again the gut, that's why a very very small amount of fiber could be ok, just to start the growth of a few colonies of the good bacteria.

if your don't have appendice or it's been damaged by antibiotics, it could be impossible to get the good strains in the sterile world of today, especially many good bacteria are anaerobic meaning your can't get them by playing with dirt.

many are obtained at birth from the mother. newborn gut is sterile and allows new bacteria, but after birth the stomach acid and other bacterial will not allow new colonies unless in high quantity, but a good probiotic like spore based b coagulans resists very well to digestion.

 

[Jennifer]

Hi @youngsinatra, I was able to come off thyroid after removing a food I’m allergenic to from my diet.

 

[peter88]

Hi @youngsinatra, I was able to come off thyroid after removing a food I’m allergenic to from my diet.

Oh wow, even tyromix? Do you take any other supplements? Thanks again, I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

 

[Jennifer]

@Jennifer we don't know exactly what bacteria, science is behind

This is an important point. Though, it may be helpful for others, following microbiome theories set me back not just health-wise, but financially too. All the researching, specialists, breath tests, enzyme tests, comprehensive stool tests, antimicrobials, pre and probiotics, herbs, vitamin and mineral supplements, special diets meant to increase “good” bacteria turned out to be a waste of my time, energy and money. In my effort to be the healthiest I could be, I became the sickest I had ever been. You know what they say about the road to h*ll…

 

[Jennifer]

Oh wow, even tyromix? Do you take any other supplements? Thanks again, I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

My pleasure. :) Yep, even TyroMix. The only supplement I take now is vitamin D3, that is, when I think to take it—maybe twice a week.

 

[moa]

This is an important point. Though, it may be helpful for others, following microbiome theories set me back not just health wise, but financially too. All the researching, specialists, breath tests, enzyme tests, comprehensive stool tests, antimicrobials, pre and probiotics, herbs, vitamin and mineral supplements, special diets meant to increase “good” bacteria turned out to be a waste of my time, energy and money. In my effort to be the healthiest I could be, I became the sickest I had ever been. You know what they say about the road to h*ll…

i know, cause all probiotics on the market will only increase good bacteria compared to a food poisoning, the only one that helps a bit is n coagulans, very cheap and easy to store, but also is not a miracle solution. it's sold as gums because the spores are so resistant to heat.

there is actually a very effective solution that helped many people recover from either c difficile infection, chronic colitis or even overweight people lost suddenly their weight only by changing their microbiome, nothing else.

the only way it's done today is by using very strong colon cleanse and antibiotics (under medical supervision) to make a sterile colon, then inject inside stools from a selected very healthy individual, effectivity replacing all bacteria strains to the ones of the other individual.

Fecal transplant is not yet approved for general use, but people who did it experienced increased health, meaning it's real, but we don't know how to do it without using this procedure.

so, yes, all the tests meat not be useful, using diet may not always work, cause research is still early.

I've had good results with b coagulans, it does something after 2 months of daily use, not a miracle solution either and no short term re
sult below 3 weeks.

fiber is used to scale up good bacteria AFTER the colonies have started to form in a symbiotic way, meaning if they are not in symbiosis, fiber will feed bad bacteria and cause symptoms without changing the ratio good/bad bacteria, so is not recommended in the beginning.

b coagulans and B2 is helping create this symbiosis with other bacteria, like a "starter", but other things may block it like candida (then maybe a few days of berberine may help for biofilm).

Maybe not waste money on expensive testings, but don't give up hope on some proven inexpensive supplements.

antibiotics can be risky, could disrupt up to 2 months or more the microbiome. could also help some people long term. it's like Russian roulette.

I've bought 5 books about latest microbiome research, from English and French authors, but haven't read them yet, it's a subject i would like to explore more.

 

[Jennifer]

i know, cause all probiotics on the market will only increase good bacteria compared to a food poisoning, the only one that helps a bit is n coagulans, very cheap and easy to store, but also is not a miracle solution. it's sold as gums because the spores are so resistant to heat.

there is actually a very effective solution that helped many people recover from either c difficile infection, chronic colitis or even overweight people lost suddenly their weight only by changing their microbiome, nothing else.

the only way it's done today is by using very strong colon cleanse and antibiotics (under medical supervision) to make a sterile colon, then inject inside stools from a selected very healthy individual, effectivity replacing all bacteria strains to the ones of the other individual.

Fecal transplant is not yet approved for general use, but people who did it experienced increased health, meaning it's real, but we don't know how to do it without using this procedure.

so, yes, all the tests meat not be useful, using diet may not always work, cause research is still early.

I've had good results with b coagulans, it does something after 2 months of daily use, not a miracle solution either and no short term re
sult below 3 weeks.

fiber is used to scale up good bacteria AFTER the colonies have started to form in a symbiotic way, meaning if they are not in symbiosis, fiber will feed bad bacteria and cause symptoms without changing the ratio good/bad bacteria, so is not recommended in the beginning.

b coagulans and B2 is helping create this symbiosis with other bacteria, like a "starter", but other things may block it like candida (then maybe a few days of berberine may help for biofilm).

Maybe not waste money on expensive testings, but don't give up hope on some proven inexpensive supplements.

antibiotics can be risky, could disrupt up to 2 months or more the microbiome. could also help some people long term. it's like Russian roulette.

I've bought 5 books about latest microbiome research, from English and French authors, but haven't read them yet, it's a subject i would like to explore more.

Thank you for the information. My health is actually excellent now, but I appreciate you taking the time to share what you’ve learned on the subject and what has worked for you. :)

 

[moa]

Thank you for the information. My health is excellent now, but I appreciate you taking the time to share what you’ve learned on the subject and what has worked for you. :)

I understand you found the solution, but I'm sharing, maybe other people are interested also.

But I understand also why Ray Peat didn't talked much about microbiome.

Cancer is the most simple and easy condition to understand, yet they still got it wrong in mainstream science.... what can we expect from them regarding gut microbiome and autoimmune conditions ?

 

[Honeycomb]

My pleasure. :) Yep, even TyroMix. The only supplement I take now is vitamin D3, that is, when I think to take it—maybe twice a week.

Which vitamin D3 do you take if you don’t mind me asking? Did you get your levels measured before starting to take it?
What improvements or changes have you noticed when taking it? Winter will soon be upon us here in the UK and taking some may be good for me. Thank you.

 

[Snicky]

You said you had Hashimoto’s or thyroiditis.
Is that good results?


View: https://youtu.be/J3danCfUydM?si=C0aDyKz7tdcHweEc







This is to possibly help you
Or objectively see a different angle…

I have Hashimoto’s and my TSH, which was already mildly high (based on non-CM measures, at 2.1mU/l) jumped to 3.6 mU/l within a few months after starting Thorne’s prenatal supplement. That is what led me to ask my GP if I might have a thyroid problem (and she ad ‘yes’ and prescribed me t4 and slowly I got examined for antibodies, etc..).

Shortly thereafter as I went to an alternative practitioner and read as much as I could, I read books by a naturopath who pointed out the role that all this extra iodine in food (like our table salt) and bakery goods, vitamins, irregular iodine consumption, individual variation, etc., and I saw the connection to that sharp increase based on my supplementation.

I had emailed Thorne warning them that I had seen my TSH jump by 2/3 but they denied that their iodine content in the vitamins could contribute to that, citing Daily Recommended Amounts….

Anyways, I switched salts and avoided a lot of seafood and even dairy for awhile thereafter. I am still going to avoid anything, like salt, with added iodine.

I read many of the studies Peat refers to here about how the population-level effects on health/metabolism pre- and post-introduction of iodized salt.

So I think Ray is right to be conscientious of iodine intake levels…

 

[Peatful]

I have Hashimoto’s and my TSH, which was already mildly high (based on non-CM measures, at 2.1mU/l) jumped to 3.6 mU/l within a few months after starting Thorne’s prenatal supplement. That is what led me to ask my GP if I might have a thyroid problem (and she ad ‘yes’ and prescribed me t4 and slowly I got examined for antibodies, etc..).

Shortly thereafter as I went to an alternative practitioner and read as much as I could, I read books by a naturopath who pointed out the role that all this extra iodine in food (like our table salt) and bakery goods, vitamins, irregular iodine consumption, individual variation, etc., and I saw the connection to that sharp increase based on my supplementation.

I had emailed Thorne warning them that I had seen my TSH jump by 2/3 but they denied that their iodine content in the vitamins could contribute to that, citing Daily Recommended Amounts….

Anyways, I switched salts and avoided a lot of seafood and even dairy for awhile thereafter. I am still going to avoid anything, like salt, with added iodine.

I read many of the studies Peat refers to here about how the population-level effects on health/metabolism pre- and post-introduction of iodized salt.

So I think Ray is right to be conscientious of iodine intake levels…

Thx for taking the time to share this

Appreciate you

 

[Peatress]

I have Hashimoto’s and my TSH, which was already mildly high (based on non-CM measures, at 2.1mU/l) jumped to 3.6 mU/l within a few months after starting Thorne’s prenatal supplement. That is what led me to ask my GP if I might have a thyroid problem (and she ad ‘yes’ and prescribed me t4 and slowly I got examined for antibodies, etc..).

Shortly thereafter as I went to an alternative practitioner and read as much as I could, I read books by a naturopath who pointed out the role that all this extra iodine in food (like our table salt) and bakery goods, vitamins, irregular iodine consumption, individual variation, etc., and I saw the connection to that sharp increase based on my supplementation.

I had emailed Thorne warning them that I had seen my TSH jump by 2/3 but they denied that their iodine content in the vitamins could contribute to that, citing Daily Recommended Amounts….

Anyways, I switched salts and avoided a lot of seafood and even dairy for awhile thereafter. I am still going to avoid anything, like salt, with added iodine.

I read many of the studies Peat refers to here about how the population-level effects on health/metabolism pre- and post-introduction of iodized salt.

So I think Ray is right to be conscientious of iodine intake levels…

Thank you!

 

[LLight]

(Dry) fasting?

 

[Jennifer]

Which vitamin D3 do you take if you don’t mind me asking? Did you get your levels measured before starting to take it?
What improvements or changes have you noticed when taking it? Winter will soon be upon us here in the UK and taking some may be good for me. Thank you.

For D3, I take the brand Elea:

Amazon product ASIN B0812D88KGView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0812D88KG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2D058EQOV600J&psc=1

My thyroid health affects my vitamin D status so I’m not sure how useful my experience will be, but my level was 17 ng/mL prior to supplementing and was only up to 20 after a month. It shot up to 110 with the same dose after I started supplementing thyroid. Since changing my diet and optimizing my thyroid function, I cut way back on the D3 and have maintained above 50 ng/mL ever since, even though I get hardly any direct sun exposure now. I started out on a high-carb, low-fat, fruit-based diet and sunbathing regularly, and initially saw improvements in my sleep and mood with D supplementation, but once I greatly increased my fat and protein intake from animal sources and subsequently my fat-soluble vitamin intake, I don’t notice anything when I take it.

 

[Honeycomb]

For D3, I take the brand Elea:

Amazon product ASIN B0812D88KGView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0812D88KG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2D058EQOV600J&psc=1

My thyroid health affects my vitamin D status so I’m not sure how useful my experience will be, but my level was 17 ng/mL prior to supplementing and was only up to 20 after a month. It shot up to 110 with the same dose after I started supplementing thyroid. Since changing my diet and optimizing my thyroid function, I cut way back on the D3 and have maintained above 50 ng/mL ever since, even though I get hardly any direct sun exposure now. I started out on a high-carb, low-fat, fruit-based diet and sunbathing regularly, and initially saw improvements in my sleep and mood with D supplementation, but once I greatly increased my fat and protein intake from animal sources and subsequently my fat-soluble vitamin intake, I don’t notice anything when I take it.

Thank you for sharing your experience. The relationship between your thyroid health and levels of vitamin D is very interesting. I am going to do some reading on this! What were your macros on your previous diet compared to now, would you say? Thank you again @Jennifer!

 

[youngsinatra]

Thank you for sharing your experience. The relationship between your thyroid health and levels of vitamin D is very interesting. I am going to do some reading on this! What were your macros on your previous diet compared to now, would you say? Thank you again @Jennifer!

Someone on the forum talked about thyroid raising low vitamin D without D3 supplementation.

I think @peter88 had a similar experience

The interesting thing is I retested my vitamin d after taking tyromix for a week and my level came back at 55 after they were stuck in the 20s and wouldn’t budge for over a year. The thyroid must have activated it.

I think thyroid activates important enzyme - it fixed my low iron labs and the same exact thing happened to @mgrabs iirc

Ray talked about optimal body temperature being required for enzymatic reactions iirc