Crohn's Disease

[gately]

I have active Crohn's in my small intestine. My symptoms are pain, fever, and inflammation (I can literally feel a tennis ball sized pocket of inflammation in my gut sometimes, it comes and goes.) I don't get diareaha, and actually get constipation occasionally. I have tried A LOT of supplements and diets to try and achieve remission. Not a lot has helped.

Recently, I tried eating a diet of mostly meat (scrambled eggs with butter, bacon, steak, lamb) and fruit juice (100% pineapple and grape juice.) By the end of the day I was in far less pain usual. And I woke up the next morning in almost ZERO pain. It was remarkable. The problem was this: By the end of the first day, my feet were frozen and I was experiencing some mild panic. My sleep was horrible and nightmare filled. And I woke up having a panic attack and thinking I was going nuts.

Through experimenting so far I've found that consuming too much fruit juice throughout the day will replicate those symptoms.

I don't handle any starches well. White rice is perfect on my gut but gives me a weird adrenaline and insomnia type feeling, potatoes (cooked any way) eventually give me some kind of cumulative adrenaline feeling after a while (nightshade issues, I suspect) and don't work for my gut anyway. I recently tried toasted bread after being off it for a while and it made me ANRGY, like throwing ***t around the house angry (endotoxin? yeast allergy? who knows.)

Warm goat milk, flavored with some chocolate syrup really helps me sleep, but I haven't ascertained whether it wrecks my gut yet.

I tried a Carnivore style diet (mostly ribeye steaks) and while it did help my gut (not as quickly as the pineapple juice + meat, oddly enough) I felt awful after two weeks: dry skin, zero libido, chest pains.

My next idea is to try the meat and fruit diet but with whole fruits instead of fruit juice, but honestly I suspect the same issues. I think too much fructose is hard on me for some reason.

Open to hearing any and all ideas on resolving Crohn's disease. Thanks!

 

[Blossom]

I have active Crohn's in my small intestine. My symptoms are pain, fever, and inflammation (I can literally feel a tennis ball sized pocket of inflammation in my gut sometimes, it comes and goes.) I don't get diareaha, and actually get constipation occasionally. I have tried A LOT of supplements and diets to try and achieve remission. Not a lot has helped.

Recently, I tried eating a diet of mostly meat (scrambled eggs with butter, bacon, steak, lamb) and fruit juice (100% pineapple and grape juice.) By the end of the day I was in far less pain usual. And I woke up the next morning in almost ZERO pain. It was remarkable. The problem was this: By the end of the first day, my feet were frozen and I was experiencing some mild panic. My sleep was horrible and nightmare filled. And I woke up having a panic attack and thinking I was going nuts.

Through experimenting so far I've found that consuming too much fruit juice throughout the day will replicate those symptoms.

I don't handle any starches well. White rice is perfect on my gut but gives me a weird adrenaline and insomnia type feeling, potatoes (cooked any way) eventually give me some kind of cumulative adrenaline feeling after a while (nightshade issues, I suspect) and don't work for my gut anyway. I recently tried toasted bread after being off it for a while and it made me ANRGY, like throwing ***t around the house angry (endotoxin? yeast allergy? who knows.)

Warm goat milk, flavored with some chocolate syrup really helps me sleep, but I haven't ascertained whether it wrecks my gut yet.

I tried a Carnivore style diet (mostly ribeye steaks) and while it did help my gut (not as quickly as the pineapple juice + meat, oddly enough) I felt awful after two weeks: dry skin, zero libido, chest pains.

My next idea is to try the meat and fruit diet but with whole fruits instead of fruit juice, but honestly I suspect the same issues. I think too much fructose is hard on me for some reason.

Open to hearing any and all ideas on resolving Crohn's disease. Thanks!

Have you tried things like honey or maple syrup as your main carb source?

 

[Goobz]

I believe both niacin and boron could be very helpful here for a number of reasons.

Look up the threads here on niacin and crohns / UC / IBD. It is obviously an incredibly key vitamin with the broadest actions. Niacin / Nicotinic acid gets converted into niacinamide but anything over 40mg or so will circulate as nicotinic acid first, which causes the flush and has effects on the immune system. These are immunomodulatory effects that the niacinamide version does not have, and in the case of some diseases, seems to work better. I believe some posters here have noticed this with their gut issues.

If taking niacin it’s probably a good idea to eat a diet rich in, or supplement with, choline / tmg / methyl donors. Along with the other B vitamins now and then, and maybe glycine as well IMO.

There is some reasonable evidence that IBD is caused by an insufficient or abnormal immune response to fungi, specifically Malassezia yeasts. Boron is an antifungal which can be helpful, and has a vast array of other health benefits, including niacin metabolism / maintaining NAD+ levels.

Oh and if it turns out fungi are the culprit then I’d imagine things like sodium butyrate would not only be helpful in controlling the fungi, but have other benefits to the gut.

Good luck

 

[gately]

Have you tried things like honey or maple syrup as your main carb source?

I have not tried this yet. My concern of that is a diet of meat and honey might lack the necessary nutrients to process the sugar? It's an interesting idea.

 

[gately]

I believe both niacin and boron could be very helpful here for a number of reasons.

Look up the threads here on niacin and crohns / UC / IBD. It is obviously an incredibly key vitamin with the broadest actions. Niacin / Nicotinic acid gets converted into niacinamide but anything over 40mg or so will circulate as nicotinic acid first, which causes the flush and has effects on the immune system. These are immunomodulatory effects that the niacinamide version does not have, and in the case of some diseases, seems to work better. I believe some posters here have noticed this with their gut issues.

If taking niacin it’s probably a good idea to eat a diet rich in, or supplement with, choline / tmg / methyl donors. Along with the other B vitamins now and then, and maybe glycine as well IMO.

There is some reasonable evidence that IBD is caused by an insufficient or abnormal immune response to fungi, specifically Malassezia yeasts. Boron is an antifungal which can be helpful, and has a vast array of other health benefits, including niacin metabolism / maintaining NAD+ levels.

Oh and if it turns out fungi are the culprit then I’d imagine things like sodium butyrate would not only be helpful in controlling the fungi, but have other benefits to the gut.

Good luck

I don't respond well to any supplemental niacin so far. Actually I don't respond well to most synthetic B-Vitamins. Nor do I respond well to most methyl donors, particularly TMG.

I agree and certainly think it's possible IBD has a yeast component. I've had some supplemental Boron over the years, usually it was added to other supplements I was taking, I can't remember which. But I'm game for testing out Boron in isolation, but to be honest if it helped I'd be very surprised. I've been immersed in anecdotal and scientific research on Crohn's for a decade trying to figure this out. I'd just be surprising if no one with Crohn's had tried Boron out. But why not give it a shot.

Thanks!

 

[gately]

Side question I touched on:

Anyone have ideas why white rice is suddenly giving me weird mental symptoms. It's like I feel really mentally hyper and my brain just doesn't stop. If I eat white rice (even combined with with other foods like chicken or steak and butter or milk) my brain literally just starts pumping out gibberish all night long, like random lines from movies and songs, giving me only a couple hours of sleep and extremely shallow sleep at that (tons of dreams.)

Just seems weird to develop this kind of symptom (and to white rice of all things!)

 

[LLight]

I've been immersed in anecdotal and scientific research on Crohn's for a decade trying to figure this out. I'd just be surprising if no one with Crohn's had tried Boron out. But why not give it a shot.

Well, if boron actually helps the immune system against the pathogens that cause Crohn's or IBS, people should experience die-off symptoms and may decide to stop it thinking it aggravates their disease.

People may be more likely to report good stories from immunosuppressives substances. At least in the short term.

 

[Amazoniac]

Have you tried to take plenty of a mild form of killcium with meals? It will make constipation worse but it should improve the adrenalide issue and ease germ activity (as suggested by Raj).

If you react poorly to gelatin or taurine, that extra consumption may help. These have to be helpful for barrier integrity and control of inflammation. But I guess the trick is avoiding consuming a lot of killcium and the two at the same time because the body might have to speed up transit time up to a point in the intestines where it's better adapted to handling toxins, and the built up killcium there will be protective. They're better taken apart or perhaps as killcium phosphatal because the absorption of phosate is greater than killcium but still far for complete, this leaves a portion of killcium complexed to it with some room left for it to bind with unwanted stuff for excretion, this way it won't be overwhelming and chances of constipation reduced. Extremely atoxic measure!!1
You can try dosing some venom/"vitamin" D along to find out if it helps. What's your usual degree of venomemia?
- C. Difficile Gut Infection Or Even IBD May Be Due To Low Vitamin D Or PPI Drugs

How do you season the rice? You can prepare it in tea wasser (such as hibiscus), add vinegar, herbs, ginger, cinnamon, celery, chilli pepper, zests, clove, and so on; these can affect your response to it.

There was someone who got it under control with creatide:
- Creatine

I would try it with Jorge's topical magnesium product. A good portion of magnesium is not absorbed early in the small intestines, so it's possible for it to get compromised, if this is the case, it can explain your poor reaction to the methyl nodors (since their metabolism is dependent). Creatine could bypass this.

What's your experience with transdermal B-vitamins? Because oral in your case would not be surprising to be problematic.

You may be lacking cobalamin and folate since they is also not absorbed early in the intestine, it's a known concern in Crohn's and coeliac disease. Their rôle in immunity doesn't get much attention, perhaps because the impact is not immediate.
- Vitamin B12, Folic Acid, and the Immune System

You're probably prone to be low on the trace minerals due to inflammation (zinc, copper, manganese, selenium), so getting them more often is advisable. If you can tolerate pineapple juice, you may the whole fruit as well. It should take care of manganese and a little copper. Experimenting with small amounts of zinc gluconate and selenomethionine wouldn't be a bad idea because the pineapple will prevent them from feeding microbes (if you're dealing with fungal infections, for example).

- Nutrients and their role in host resistance to infection

- Ascourgic acid

 

[Markus]

Side question I touched on:

Anyone have ideas why white rice is suddenly giving me weird mental symptoms. It's like I feel really mentally hyper and my brain just doesn't stop. If I eat white rice (even combined with with other foods like chicken or steak and butter or milk) my brain literally just starts pumping out gibberish all night long, like random lines from movies and songs, giving me only a couple hours of sleep and extremely shallow sleep at that (tons of dreams.)

Just seems weird to develop this kind of symptom (and to white rice of all things!)

Sounds like it's yeast-related.

 

[LucH]

Hi,
If you suspect bacterial overgrowth (besides IBS), I won't take nutrients that feed them:
No supplement with B3, nor any B complex, nor zinc nor iron ...
Only through foodstuff. Once a week is ok for supplementing B complex.
Bring some retinol (egg yolk and and chicken liver) twice a week and some vitamin D to improve bacterial defense. More often if through au supplement like Estroban (interaction with liposoluble vitamins).

Vitamins A and D are needed for:
- Antimicrobial peptides (AMPs). AMPs are small proteins that can disrupt microbial membranes, interfere with metabolism, and damage cell components.
- Lysozymes. Lysozymes are enzymes that damage bacterial cell walls by breaking down bonds in bacterial sugars (LPS membranes).
I would add some iodine from algues. 225 mg daily. Wait before adapting upwards twice (2-4 weeks).
- Iodine, the most effective halide for immune killing. When immune cells employ phagocytosis against infections, they strip iodine from thyroid hormone.
PS: Some selenium (from shrimps, white fish and red meat) is necessary before adapting iodine content for thyroid. Thyroid needs Mg Zn I Se.

 

[Inaut]

@LucH I thought of milk when I read your post (as I drink some).

 

[LLight]

You can try dosing some venom/"vitamin" D along to find out if it helps. What's your usual degree of venomemia?

Patients that have auto-immune diseases tend to have high 1,25D:

Not sure having low 25D in your blood means that you should supplement.

 

[LucH]

Not sure having low 25D in your blood means that you should supplement.

Any study that doesn't take into account interaction between liposoluble vitamins (A D3 ans K2) is useless.

 

[LucH]

I thought of milk when I read your post (as I drink some).

50 % people who are reactive to gluten are allergic to casein protein (crossreaction). But Not all people suffering from IBS are concerned.
It could be dysbiosis + inflammation + immune reaction. Or problems in assimilating some sugars (FODMAP's) (enzymes' deficiency).
Or ... Too many possibilities.
Only lactose intolerance, I don't think so. But milk A1 is difficult to assimilate. Milk A2 is best.
See link /lien for the explanation of the genesis of the pathologies (in French). Or see Jacqueline Lagacé if you don’t read French.
Jean Seignalet has treated several crohn patients. But once again, not all crohn patients are concerned.
- Crohn's disease: 72 patients, 62 complete remissions, 2 improvements to 90%, 7 improvements to 50%, 1 failure. So 99% of "success"

 

[LLight]

Any study that doesn't take into account interaction between liposoluble vitamins (A D3 ans K2) is useless.

Please develop.

How doesn't it show that there's no vitamin D defiency?

There may have vitamin K2 or A deficiencies, but supplementing vitamin D does not appear to be what's needed.

 

[Tarmander]

Mutaflor

Also have you considered a run of antibiotics? Kind of a roll of the dice but if you are desperate enough...minocycline or erythromycin

 

[LucH]

Please develop.

Vitamins A and D need to be in balance with one another, because they act in concert to control gene expression in the nucleus of human cells. An improper ratio of vitamin A to vitamin D in the body distorts gene expression.

The primacy of vitamin A and vitamin D balance is suggested by several studies.
Support for the balance view is provided by Tufts University researchers. They followed up on a suggestion by Chris Masterjohn and assessed the relation between vitamin A and vitamin D status and the activation state of the vitamin K-dependent protein MGP. Their findings:
• Vitamin A alone did nothing to improve the status of MGP.
• Vitamin D alone increased the amount of activated MGP but increased the amount of uncarboxylated MGP—a probable toxin—even more.
• Vitamin A and D together increased the amount of activated MGP even more than vitamin D alone but completely eliminated the increase in toxic uncarboxylated MGP.
Thus a balanced intake of vitamins A and D amplifies the benefits of vitamin D while eliminating its side effects.
And K2 is needed for activating protein carboxylation.
"We" infer that the optimal vitamin A-to-vitamin D ratio in IU should be less than 5 to 1. Let’s estimate the ratio at 2.5 to 1.
Reference:
Fu X et al. 9-Cis retinoic acid reduces 1alpha,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol-induced renal calcification by altering vitamin K-dependent gamma-carboxylation of matrix gamma-carboxyglutamic acid protein in A/J male mice. Journal of Nutrition 2008 Dec;138(12):2337–41, 9-Cis retinoic acid reduces 1alpha,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol-induced renal calcification by altering vitamin K-dependent gamma-carboxylation of m... - PubMed - NCBI.
Hat tip to Chris Masterjohn: www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=112375358783617

 

[LLight]

@LucH

So regarding "autoimmune" diseases, what is the connection, the toxicity of D itself, or the the lack of activated MGP?

It's not particularly an argument in the discussion (at most an N=1), and I don't know if you have followed the topic about the health of Masterjohn, but people suspect that he could have MS, from the description he gave of his symptoms.

As you have previously said in this topic, vitamin D (according to some sources, only the 1,25 form of it) can activate the VDR so that it induces the production of antimicrobial peptides. The same sources claim that the issue of such diseases is coming from the fact that some bacteria have the ability to block the VDR. If the VDR is blocked, they can survive.

"Marshall has noted that any intracellular
bacteria capable of producing a substance that blocks the VDR would have an effective strategy for disabling the immune system. Molecular modeling has indicated that one type of bacteria does produce a substance capable of disabling the VDR, providing proof of concept. It is the sulfonolipid capnine, produced by some gliding bacteria. Similar gliding bacteria have been identified in biofilm communities on prosthetic hip joints."

Reversing Bacteria-Induced Vitamin D Receptor Dysfunction Is Key to Autoimmune Disease - PubMed

An hypothesis of course. But it makes, to me, much more sense that the idea that autoimmune diseases are caused by deficiencies.

 

[burtlancast]

In case you didn't know it already, the American patient Shona Banda afflicted with terminal Crohn reversed her condition with Rick Simpson cannabis oil.

Gerson reverses Crohn.

And of course, the Coimbra protocol has several cases of reversed Crohn among the many AI diseases it treats.

 

[LucH]

So regarding "autoimmune" diseases, what is the connection, the toxicity of D itself, or the the lack of activated MGP?

I would discard the connection between auto-immunity and Vitamin D, at least at the first step of the problem. Immunity reaction comes later in the process.

Too much inflammation will deplete 25ODH. Vit D is used to counteract bacteria and virus. By the way, if you have to0 much 25ODH – more than 40 / 50 ng/ml 1.25D – the body tempts to neutralize excess vit D in circulation.

I spoke of autoimmunity when Crohn’s was mentioned. Inflamed bowel leads to exhaustion of some useful nutrients, upsets microbiome, and heightens phagocytosis. It’s a vicious circle leading to auto-immunity if sustained / perennized.

As far as interaction is concerned (between liposoluble vitamins):
If too much vitamin D is added (more than 4 to 5.000 IU), without adequate carboxylation (K2 is needed to do the job), the “job” won’t be done properly. Which job?

Note: Some adequate levels of magnesium is needed too (450 mg). You won't convert vitamin D unless you have enough Mg! Not too much too.

Which job?
Vit D3 => stimulation of osteocalcin + carboxylation (activation) required.

Vitamin K2 is required for the carboxylation / activation of dependent proteins. If the carboxylation is not carried out effectively, calcium is not absorbed properly and will deposit in the arteries and joints. And so on (excitation).
Vitamin D3, helped by vitamin A (retinol), stimulates the production of osteocalcin, and K2 activates it.

Role of K2
Research shows that K2 combines with vitamin D3 in order to inhibit the production of osteoclast cells that break down bones. (1) K2 also targets osteoclasts to cause apoptosis (programmed cell death), resulting in a reduction in the number of osteoclast cells. (2) By moderating the action of osteoclasts (destructurating action), vitamin K2 thus helps osteoblasts (remodelers) to maintain a healthy bone balance.

References:
1. Plaza S and Lamson D. Alt Med Rev 2005; Masterjohn C. Med Hypotheses 2007; Yamaguchi M, Sugimoto E, et al. Mol Cell Biochem 2001; Yamaguchi M, Uchiyama S, et al. Mol Cell Biochem 2003.
2. Kameda T, Miyazawa K, Mori Y, et al. Vitamin K2 inhibits osteoclastic bone resorption by inducing osteoclast apoptosis. Biochem Biophys Res Commun 1996 Mar 27, 22o(3):515-19.

More information in the book:
Vitamin K2 and Calcium Paradox.
By Kate Rheaume-Bleue, B.Sc., ND