Cardenosine And Chelation

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by daphne134, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. daphne134

    daphne134 Member

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    For those aware of my issue I have some preliminary but interesting news.

    So when my left eye drastically declined I had distance consulted an optometrist who tends to implicate heavy metals along with nutritional deficiencies. Then, with limited time and funds, I went in some other directions as primarily causal. I have identified in myself a collagen disorder for which no genetic test is available but looking at me and some close relatives (e.g. my mom) there's plenty of evidence. I don't think my genetic disorder is directly causal but believe my eye structure is weaker and more susceptible (to metals, xrays ....). Many ocular issues are caused by this spectrum of disorders which is expressed in different tissues and is still being worked out by geneticists (Ehlers-Danlos is the umbrella term but the mild versions are classified as hEDS (within EDS) and HSD (now outside unless you were diagnosed prior to re-classification).

    With this new understanding of my body, I decided to think about chelating again. (I still have to do the metal test but feel a real urgency to move things along for obvios reasons.)

    Last night I took about 30 drops Cardenosine (1st time in weeks). As for drops, I'd been doing Lanomax 2x per day for maybe 2 weeks. (I don't keep great records unfortunately.) Was doing Lanomax in both but decided just do left and find something else for the good eye.

    This AM first real breakthrough on left eye. It feels a little less dense/opaque in there, less irritated than it's been, and my quick tests indicate very slight vision improvement. Well it's only been one night but this is encouraging. I'm pretty sure nothing else could have caused this.

    Sort of related I'm trying to figure out what antioxidants to take. Had been taking a reduced gluthione but just not sure.

    Haven't yet thoroughly researched all Cardonosine ingredients but am a bit familiar with EDTA by following an Andy Cutler forum. (I think their anti-sulphur stuff is wrong though?)

    The vision is a good indicator but Cardenosine wiped me out the next morning. Exhausted but not sleepy, slightly nauseous. I took an NDT (which I do on and off) and that helped.

    Dosage or other suggestions for Cardenosine?
     
  2. OP
    daphne134

    daphne134 Member

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    I should clarify that the Cardenosine was taken orally.
     
  3. StephanF

    StephanF Member

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    Hi Daphne,

    Be careful with EDTA, I read that it may liberate mercury from tissue, cross the brain barrier, and then dump it into the brain, since the protein covering the neurons have a higher affinity to mercury than EDTA. I had a couple of elderly friends which did chelation therapy here in Reno. Her husband developed Parkinson's and she although much later came down with Alzheimer's.

    If you use EDTA, then you have to add something else that tightly bonds to mercury, so the body can eliminate it and that it doesn't harm the brain.

    With best wishes,

    Stephan
     
  4. StephanF

    StephanF Member

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    E.F. Duhr, J.C. Pendergrass, J.T. Slevin, and B.E. Haley, "HgEDTA Complex Inhibits GTP
    Interactions with the E‐Site of Brain B‐Tubulin," Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology
    122, 273‐280 (1993).
    We have found that EDTA and EGTA complexes of Hg2+, which conventional wisdom
    has assumed are biologically inert, are potentially injurious to the neuronal
    cytoskeleton. Tubulin, a major protein component of the neuronal cytoskeleton, is the
    target of multiple toxicants, including many heavy metal ions. Among the mercurials,
    inorganic mercuric ion (HG2+) is one of the most potent inhibitors of microtubule
    polymerization both in vivo and in vitro. In contrast to other heavy metals, the capacity
    of Hg2+ to inhibit microtubule polymerization or disrupt formed microtubules cannot be
    prevented by the addition of EDTA and EGTA, both of which bind Hg2+ with very high
    affinity. To the contrary, the addition of these two chelating agents potentiates Hg2+
    inhibitiion of tubulin polymerization. Results herein show that HgEDTA and HgEGTA
    inhibit tubulin polymerization by disrupting the interaction of GTP with the E‐site of
    brain B‐tubulin, an obligatory step in the polymerization of tubulin. Both HgEDTA and
    HgEGTA, but not free Hg2+, prevented binding of (32P)8N3GTP, a photoaffinity
    nucleotide analog of GTP, to the E‐site and displaced bound (32P)8N3GTP at low
    micromolar concentrations. This complete inhibition of photoinsertion into the E‐site
    occured in a concentration and time dependent fashion and was specific for Hg2+
    complexes of EDTA and EGTA, among the chelating agents tested. Given the ubiquity of
    Hg2+ in the environment and the widespread use of EDTA in foodstuffs and medicine,
    these mercury complexes may pose a potentially serious threat to human health and
    play a role in diseases of the neuronal cytoskeleton.
     
  5. StephanF

    StephanF Member

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    Here is a testimonial that Cliff Mc Queen, someone I met on the Internet, sent me in 2006. He got Parkinson's symptoms after heavy dental work with amalgam, which is 50% mercury. He did a thorough cleanse and got well, although he also took EDTA but as repositories.
     

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  6. OP
    daphne134

    daphne134 Member

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    Stephen, thank you so much. However there was an (implicit) error in my original post! The Cardenosine contains succinic acid, also known as DMSA (I believe). I had it mixed up with EDTA due to looking into the Andy Cutler protocol and trying to make sense of so much all at once. Would you have similar concerns about DMSA though? Thanks again.
     
  7. StephanF

    StephanF Member

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    Daphne, I am no expert in chelation therapy. I only found this article warning about EDTA. Yes there are other, sulfur-based substances, DMSO and one other DMPS. I don’t know about either.

    Maybe 10 years ago I noticed brain fog and I used a detox formula from Innovative Natural Products, they don’t offer this one anymore but it did help a lot.

    Open cell chlorella supposedly also works, but here on this forum there was a negative comment about it.

    I am going to take a picture of the ingredients from the detox formula and post it here.
     
  8. StephanF

    StephanF Member

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    Here are two pictures.
     

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  9. OP
    daphne134

    daphne134 Member

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    Hi Stephan - thanks, I will look into this line of supplements, though the "formulated by doctors" in their tagline gives me pause. Just kidding! In a civilized country I would be doing this under medical care but I have never found a good doctor in the USA even though I'm insured. (Actually I did have a good orthopedic surgeon in my 20's but that's it. Ok America's good at slicing up bodies.)

    Since succinic acid does more than chelate I was hoping it was a missing ingredient in my biochemistry but my eyesight hasn't improved lately. I probably got a placebo boost from it and, before that, serrapeptase.

    I'm kind of wishing I was in Holland or Belgium since they euthanize people who can't cope with blindness and that's starting to look like my best option since I hate being visually impaired more than I can fully express. It is a cognitive load just walking around seeing everything lopsided and dreary and fuzzy. Getting my lenses "phacoemulsified" and replaced with plastic just doesn't seem like a good option. The plastic eye lenses would likely cause chronic inflammation. I have noticed that maximalist medicine advocates don't seem to think of inflammation (or even seizures) as a problem anymore.

    Sorry for the rant, I realize it's more than you signed up for with your cautionary note. There probably are professionals out there who can help me but trying to find them in this den of corporatized medicine is like searching for the proverbial needle in a hay stack (and an expensive search).
     
  10. OP
    daphne134

    daphne134 Member

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    In addition to the thing I wrote earlier, I feel like my instincts sort of ... exist ... play a role. There's no substitute for knowledge but given how lacking it is (though no fault of my own obviously) - I do listen to my body and take things slower than recommended dosages, intermittently and so on. Hopefully I detoxed as much as I could and now have stopped as it really was exhausting me. Being EDS type that's nothing new and not easy to distinguish from my baseline. It's just crazy-making not having a good doctor for root cause healing, thanks for getting me to think that through.

    Oh also - on the gluthione question - I had been waffling on gluthione but it makes DMSA far riskier per the Cutler people and likely they are right about that.

    One more add: Had some of the best sleep ever, a huge deal for me, while on it with easier wakeups. That's why I'm hoping it did some good!
     
  11. StephanF

    StephanF Member

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    There are two more things that come to mind: I am using 'MMS' (Miracle Mineral Supplement) for years, now with Covid, we are taking it daily. There is a testimonials blog, where I had posted the amazing 'cure' for arthritis of my mom's care taker with two stiff fingers. She took four 'activated' drops per day and on the fifth day, the swollen finger knuckles and stiffness were gone! I couldn't believe my own eyes! Since the passing of my mom in 2013 I kept in contact with her for another two years and the arthritis did not return, and she was still taking the drops. She also told me that her vision improved. On the testimonials blog there are also posts about eye problems.

    All - MMS Testimonials - Master Mineral Solution, Miracle Mineral Solution

    Then my best friend here in Reno, Robert Roy, has an herbal remedy "Two Feathers Healing Formula" that can be used for many health issues. There were reports from his clients that they resolved cataracts in eyes. A few months ago, I had a sudden increase in floaters in my right eye and the a bacterial infection in the same eye - it could have been Covid, not sure. I had some eye drops to which I added a dilute solution of chlorine dioxide and applied it to both eyes, the next day the swelling was down, I continued using it, then a white spot opened on the eyelid rim and puss came out for about 3-4 days. I continued with the drops until there was no more redness. I still have the floaters though and I may use the Two Feathers formula on my eye, I don't have much hope that the floaters may disappear but it is worth a try. The formula is not cheap, however. I have used it also internally and externally. Way back when I came to the US in 1985 for getting my Ph.D. in physics, I would get severe stomach pains if I had a large meal in the evening. I went to a doctor and they did an x-ray but couldn't find anything. Then I met Robert in 1992, and I took his compound, after that I had no more issues with my stomach!! I used the salve topically on strange skin spots, maybe cancer, and it would 'burn' that part of the skin, while it would not touch any normal skin around it. Then the malignant skin would crumble up and detach from the skin. That was on my chest - it didn't even leave a scar! I got rid of two moles on my right hand, same thing. Also a small tumor on my nose. This and MMS are the most versatile healing formulas out there.

    https://www.twofeathers.com

    Then there are many supplements for the eyes.

    With best wishes, Stephan
     
  12. Tristan Loscha

    Tristan Loscha Member

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    Reversal of diabetic cataract by sorbinil, an aldose reductase inhibitor
    A Beyer-Mears, E Cruz
    Diabetes 34 (1), 15-21, 1985
    Aldose reductase is implicated in the pathogenesis of diabetic cataracts; therefore, inhibition of this enzyme subsequent to cataractogenesis may represent a therapeutic approach for restoration of lens physiology. In the present study, the effect of aldose reductase inhibition subsequent to stage I cataract formation was investigated in the streptozocin-induced diabetic rat. Our results indicated that the aldose reductase inhibitor sorbinil, a spirohydantoin, arrested further progression and promoted a reparative process despite continuation of hyperglycemia and elevated lens glucose. Quantitative analysis of scanning electron micrographs indicated that the afflicted lens regions were contained and their cellular components stabilized with regard to fiber hydration and interdigitation. The reparative process included: normalization of lens sorbitol, gradual recovery of existing fiber contour and interdigitation, production of new fibers, and partial restoration of lens myo-inositol content.





    Diabetes mellitus is recognized as a leading cause of new cases of blindness, and is associated with increased risk for painful neuropathy, heart disease and kidney failure. Many theories have been advanced to explain mechanisms leading to diabetic complications, including stimulation of glucose metabolism by the polyol pathway. Additionally, the enzyme is located in the eye (cornea, retina, lens), kidney, and the myelin sheath–tissues that are often involved in diabetic complications.[14] Under normal glycemic conditions, only a small fraction of glucose is metabolized through the polyol pathway, as the majority is phosphorylated by hexokinase, and the resulting product, glucose-6-phosphate, is utilized as a substrate for glycolysis or pentose phosphate metabolism.[15][16] However, in response to the chronic hyperglycemia found in diabetics, glucose flux through the polyol pathway is significantly increased. Up to 33% of total glucose utilization in some tissues can be through the polyol pathway.[17] Glucose concentrations are often elevated in diabetics and aldose reductase has long been believed to be responsible for diabetic complications involving a number of organs. Many aldose reductase inhibitors have been developed as drug candidates but virtually all have failed although some such as epalrestat are commercially available in several countries. Additional reductase inhibitors such as ranirestat, ponalrestat, rinalrestat, risarestat, sorbinil, and berberine[18] are currently in clinical trials.[19]



    Aldose reductase - Wikipedia


    Nutritional modulation of cataract


    The Association of Dietary Lutein plus Zeaxanthin and B Vitamins with Cataracts in the Age-Related Eye Disease Study: AREDS Report No. 37 - PubMed






    "reductase inhibitors such as ranirestat, ponalrestat, rinalrestat, risarestat, sorbinil, and berberine[18] are currently in clinical trials." "Epalrestat" is available in Japan for this use case seemingly; maybe international Pharmacy?
    Epalrestat - Wikipedia

    maybe a Multi with high amounts of Bs, like Thorne Research 2/day, and a ketogenic diet? Bloodsugar is one measurement, but what about tissue concentrations and sensitivity. Either way, i do not know enough.
     
  13. OP
    daphne134

    daphne134 Member

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    Thanks I will look into those two. Have you heard / do you have any opinions on the Pleo Sanum line? I got some Pleo-MUC eye drops naturaleyecare.com and got interested in the line but not sure whether to order more.
    About Pleo Sanum
     
  14. StephanF

    StephanF Member

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    The Pleo-Sanum products are homeopathic remedies. Although I take homeopathics, you have a severe condition and I am not sure that it will help much. What Tristan posted makes sense, and I also wondered if diabetes was the underlying health condition. I would get tested ASAP.
     
  15. OP
    daphne134

    daphne134 Member

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    Makes sense - yes, will do! thanks.
     
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