Candida

[narouz]

Hello,
I was chatting to a friend about candida like you do, a woman who has made a wondrous improvement to her chronic health issues by following Peat's understandings. Since it is a yeast, and some yeasts produce various forms of B3 (niacin and niacinamide) we wondered whether candida was some kind of symbiotic helper (even if last ditch!) for those with low metabolism. The - albeit potentially slightly crazy - theory being the host can't make/get the B3 it needs because it is so compromised energetically, so the fungus turns up to do it for the host, with unfortunately some very unpleasant side effects. Brewers yeast and certain (edible) mushrooms are high in B3 too but I have no real idea how all these spore critters are really related.
Nor if B3 production is a 'mushroom/fungi/yeast' general thing.

[As an aside, in Sugar Myths 2 which is just in for verification, and will be up shortly, Peat says:

"....and the thyroid hormone is what basically distinguishes humans from fungus and bacteria and such; the higher development of the brain goes, the more oxidative energy production is needed. " ]

Anyway, well done for reading this far, even if your eyes are rolling. Because the next bit, is that Niacinamide has been trialled as a cure for candida via modulation of a specific gene expression (I think) of the yeast.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 141617.htm

Journal Reference:

Hugo Wurtele, Sarah Tsao, Guylaine Lépine, Alaka Mullick, Jessy Tremblay, Paul Drogaris, Eun-Hye Lee, Pierre Thibault, Alain Verreault, Martine Raymond. Modulation of histone H3 lysine 56 acetylation as an antifungal therapeutic strategy. Nature Medicine, 2010; 16 (7): 774 DOI: 10.1038/nm.2175

Now, I don't know about that, but what if by giving the niacinamide there is no more reason for the yeast to be in the loop, at least at overgrowth levels? And the host gets help with energy production and hopefully everyone's happy. (I see this as akin to balanced sugar levels keeping candida present but nicely quiescent.)

Just a thought, does supplementary niacinamide kill it or does it make it no longer required?
Feel free to tell me where the logic bomb is. Or that I am hypoglycaemic or must just get out more.
It might just be useful without the above conjecture to help some of you with this issue if you've not already tried and tested this avenue.
Bye for now

Sheila

Sheila-
Very interesting on both views.
The Lita Lee idea--that Candida is not the cause of the problem,
but rather an effect of some underlying issue--
your perpectives may be harmonious with that general way of thinking about it.

This whole gut microbiome thing is way complicated.
The more I research it, the more complicated.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11131027

Transcripts of most lipase genes were detected during the yeast-to-hyphal transition. Furthermore, LIP5, LIP6, LIP8 and LIP9 were found to be expressed during experimental infection of mice. These data indicate lipid-independent, highly flexible in vitro and in vivo expression of a large number of LIP genes, possibly reflecting broad lipolytic activity, which may contribute to the persistence and virulence of C. albicans in human tissue.


I don't claim to know anything at all about all this microbiome stuff, other than my own personal experience. Does the study mentioned above explain WHY my fungal/yeast infections seem to be worse when I was eating a high fat ZERO-carb diet? I found it impossible to "starve" it out...

 

[narouz]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11131027

Transcripts of most lipase genes were detected during the yeast-to-hyphal transition. Furthermore, LIP5, LIP6, LIP8 and LIP9 were found to be expressed during experimental infection of mice. These data indicate lipid-independent, highly flexible in vitro and in vivo expression of a large number of LIP genes, possibly reflecting broad lipolytic activity, which may contribute to the persistence and virulence of C. albicans in human tissue.


I don't claim to know anything at all about all this microbiome stuff, other than my own personal experience. Does the study mentioned above explain WHY my fungal/yeast infections seem to be worse when I was eating a high fat ZERO-carb diet? I found it impossible to "starve" it out...

Well, bigP...
I know what "that Jorge guy" would say.
He'd say the Candida holes up in the cecum,
making a fortress of biofilms there.
So, essentially: can't be starved out.
Has to be Nystatin enema'ed out.

Not saying I have any good evidence this is true.
Just saying that is his view.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Yes narouz, I was hoping to hear that you had done the Nystatin retention assault and were feeling much better by now...c'mon, kick off the New Year with a bang!

 

[narouz]

Sorry to be a party pooper. Ha.
Nystatin is on order, though!

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Promise you'll keep us posted? I really should order some Nystatin too...

 

[narouz]

You bet, BP.

Here's some stuff I posted over in the Methylene Blue thread.
Decided it should go here too
because it's about the anti-fungal properties of Methylene Blue:

from "TDog333" at a Candida forum
http://www.thecandidadiet.com/forum/yaf_postst9874_Methylene-Blue-Antifungal-Anyone.aspx

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11862203

The results indicate an MB dose-dependent effect. Concentrations from 250 to 400 microgram/mL reduced fungal growth but did not eliminate Candida albicans. MB concentrations of 450 and 500 microgram/mL totally eradicated Candida albicans from the oral cavity, resulting in reductions from 2.5 log(10) and 2.74 log(10) to 0, respectively. These results suggest that MB-mediated photodynamic therapy can potentially be used to treat oral candidiasis in immunodeficient patients.
I've seen a few people take it for candida overgrowth. Heard it can cross blood brain barrier and works systemically. I was thinking of trying it out. Has anyone heard about it, found any other studies, or tried it before?
From what I've read it has a low toxicity as well which is very ideal due to all the stress the body is currently under.
(plus the bonus that it turns your pee blue if you don't take any vitamin c lol)
Thanks!
PS: Do you think the photodynamic therapy is key? They don't try it without the light therapy it seems, wish they did.

----

same poster, same forum:

hahaha true that
Found another study where it is shown to help metabolize ethanol and acetaldehyde. If I remember correctly candida thrives in enthanol and releases it as a byproduct

http://alcalc.oxfordjour...rg/content/35/5/424.full

The results show you need to take a high dose for it to possibly be effective. Just as in the other study I think.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I got some MB, I haven't tried it yet cuz I still need to sit down and figure out how to dose it properly (this would require actual focus on my part)...yep, the brain fog is THAT bad since I quit the olive leaf.

 

[narouz]

I got some MB, I haven't tried it yet cuz I still need to sit down and figure out how to dose it properly (this would require actual focus on my part)...yep, the brain fog is THAT bad since I quit the olive leaf.

http://www.thecandidadiet.com/olive-leaf-extract.htm

Derived from the leaves of the olive tree, Olive Leaf Extract contains an active ingredient named Oleuropein, which is showing positive results in numerous studies as a Candida killer.

This powerful herbal remedy is a natural and effective antifungal, in addition to having anti-parasitic, antiviral and bactericidal properties. Research has shown that Olive Tree Extract contains almost double the antioxidant capacity than that of green tea.

As with many herbal treatments, Olive Leaf Extract has other, positive effects on your system. It contains antioxidant properties that are even more powerful than Vitamins C and E, Grape Seed Extract or Green Tea. This powerful antioxidant can help protect your body from aging and illness.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I must say that I LOVE olive leaf, it is very potent and works quite well. My problem is that it made me unbearably hungry all the time, I had to eat contantly. Also my skin broke out as bad as it did last winter, not entirely sure if this is a seasonal thing or perhaps I wasn't getting enough vit. A. I am taking more A now and things are calming down, but I also think the die off from olive leaf messed with my sleep. I developed bad insomnia so I quit both olive leaf and probiotics. Now I can sleep just fine, but my brain is in the clouds and my ear is itchy, guts are not ideal, etc....perhaps a full Nystatin bath is in order?

 

[narouz]

Re: Candida, Magnesium, & Herpes?

More of my obscure and unrigorous research on Candida.
Here, links between Candida and magnesium supplementation and herpes is discussed.
I can't vouch for the veracity of this stuff...

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1884809

1921: Weston first reported that magnesium sulfate injections terminated agitated depression within a few hours. Magnesium sulfate (10% elemental magnesium) was injected in doses of one to two CCs of a 25% or 50% solution resulting in nearly all of his fifty patients relaxing and sleeping from 4 to 6 hours.
2001: Papadopol et al. showed that stress from orphanage living drove down intracellular magnesium so severely that orphans lost much of their IQ. Magnesium deficit caused a number of neuropsychological disorders including, agitation, anxiety, depression, irritability, weakness, fatigue, confusion,
asthenia, sleeplessness, headache, convulsive and nervous attacks, delirium, hallucinations and hyperexcitability.
2006: Eby and Eby reviewed the literature and suggested that high-dose magnesium treatment (800 to 1200 mg /day) was effective for depression, traumatic brain injury, headache, suicidal ideation, anxiety, irritability, insomnia, postpartum depression, drug abuse, memory loss and IQ loss. Dietary deficiencies of magnesium, coupled with excess calcium and stress may cause many cases of other related symptoms including agitation, anxiety, irritability, confusion, asthenia, sleeplessness, headache, delirium, hallucinations and hyperexcitability, with each of these having been previously documented. The possibility that magnesium deficiency is the cause of most major depression and related mental health problems including IQ loss and addiction is enormously important to public health and is recommended for immediate further study.
2006: Enya showed that depression could be immediately relieved by IV injection of magnesium sulfate, while oral magnesium oxide was not effective.
2006: Eby demonstrated that magnesium throat lozenges were effective as rescue treatment for allergy-induced asthma in adults, producing rescue in minutes. However, a common cold treated with a single 100 mg magnesium (magnesium chloride) throat lozenge producing +100 mM salivary concentration lasted two months and was very severe.
2009: Eby hypothesized that magnesium throat lozenges would severely worsen rhinovirus-induced asthma - perhaps fatally - since 30 mM magnesium chloride was shown in the 60’s to increase the release of rhinoviruses by 8- to 310-fold.

NOTE: Although magnesium over-dose is well known to produce diarrhea, very little was found concerning biologics-induced side effects of high-dose, oral magnesium treatment. However, our uncontrolled observations and the reports from others have convinced us that more consideration of its pro-herpes, pro-Candida albicans and pro-rhinovirus potential is needed.

For example - anecdotally:

1. Treatment of active genital herpes infections with +100 mM magnesium chloride greatly worsened infections.
2. Oral herpes was very greatly worsened upon use of +100 mM magnesium chloride facial treatment.
3. Daily use of magnesium chloride throat lozenges resulted in severe, chronic rhinosinusitis, apparently from a Candida albicans infection.
4. Diarrhea and intestinal distress from high-dose magnesium may be caused by overgrowth of intestinal Candidiasis as well as the well-known attraction of a large number of water molecules by magnesium.
5. A single magnesium throat lozenge worsened a common cold which lasted over two months and was only modestly treatable with zinc lozenges.

 

[narouz]

Candida & magnesium

More on Candida & magnesium...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2037228

FEMS Microbiol Lett. 1991 Jan 15;61(2-3):187-93.
Effect of calcium ion uptake on Candida albicans morphology.
Holmes AR1, Cannon RD, Shepherd MG.
Author information
Abstract
In liquid culture using a synthetic medium, added magnesium but not calcium was required for exponential growth of Candida albicans yeast cells. However, medium without added divalent cations supported 2-3 generations of yeast growth or germ tube induction. The addition of calcium ions (1.0 mM) at any stage during the induction of germ tube formation caused reversion to a yeast mode of growth, in contrast to the effect of zinc and cobalt ions which were toxic to all growth. Inhibition of germ tube formation by calcium was not observed in the presence of either magnesium (10 microM) or manganese (100 microM). The presence of either of these ions caused inhibition of 45Ca uptake in yeast cultures. We conclude that unrestricted calcium uptake resulted in the specific inhibition of C. albicans mycelial growth, indicating a critical role for calcium in the regulation of C. albicans morphogenesis.
PMID: 2037228 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hmmmm....very interesting. I just recently started supplementing with magnesium glycinate powder because Cron-O showed my diet consistently low in magnesium.

 

[tara]

I think fungii tend not to thrive in acid conditions. I wonder whether alkalinising efects of the magnesium supplements had something to do with increased candida growth.

 

[narouz]

I think fungii tend not to thrive in acid conditions. I wonder whether alkalinising efects of the magnesium supplements had something to do with increased candida growth.

tara-
In fact, this is one line of thinking over on those Candida forums I've been haunting.
Those who see it that way
think that some magnesium forms/chelates are more alkalinising than others,
and so may affect Candida growth more or less.
I will try to remember to post more specifically on that.

 

[aquaman]

Hi, everyone!
I've been lurking around here for a couple months now (new to Peating, only been at it for 6 weeks).
Although I'm a bit intimidated by all of your obvious intellect (WOW! What a bunch of smart, articulate, passionate people!), I wanted to comment on this thread because it's relative to my situation. I've been dealing with fungal issues for over a year now -- it's probably my main health concern currently. Was really hoping to overcome the issue through Peating, but I've been disappointed after reading others' posts about seborrheic dermatitis, thrush, and other fungal issues. It doesn't seem that anyone has had any real success in eradicating them. I've tried the sulfur powder, both internally and topically -- no change (I've tried EVERYTHING else under the sun over the past year as well, to no avail).

What are the issues and what have you tried?

 

[artemis]

Hi, Aquaman -

Fungal issues started over a year ago, first in two toenails. Tried every over the counter anti-fungal available, in every form (sprays, creams, powders, etc.). Also tried lots of different essential oils, as well as natural stuff like vinegar, garlic, etc. Always kept up the treatment for at least a few times a day for at least 2 weeks, to be sure I gave it time. Then about 6 months ago it appeared as ringworm in the groin area -- jock itch. Again tried everything I could get my hands on, including some novel suggestions like honey, Listerine, alcohol, bleach, saline solutions, and on and on. No change.

Found Peat a few months ago, and have been pretty strictly following this protocol for about 2 months now, as I work my way through his wonderful articles and interviews. A year ago, when this fungus first appeared, I was eating low-carb paleo with no sugar at all, so the conventional "wisdom" that dietary sugar causes/exacerbates it is bunk.

I've always been low-thyroid and hypoglycemic, but have never taken thyroid because my blood work always showed it on the "borderline," and no doctor would ever prescribe it. Have always had slow metabolism, low temps (96 -97), very low pulse rate (50), low blood pressure, constipation, always cold (even though I live in the deep south), etc. Been on hormone replacement therapy for the past 8 years (yes, I've been taking estrogen for 8 years!), till I quit taking it 2 months ago. I ordered cynoplus and cynomel over 6 weeks ago from mymexicandrugstore -- still waiting. I'm hoping that getting my temps/heart rate up will finally allow me to make some progress in eradicating this fungus. The only other real issue I have is tinnitus, which happened overnight about 5 years ago after getting stuck standing right in front of a huge, loud speaker at a nightclub for a couple of hours.

So I'm doing everything I can while I wait for the thyroid meds. Not much luck so far in getting temps/pulse rate up, even with the whole "diet" in place, along with the usual supplements (aspirin, niacinamide, progesterone, pregnenolone, vitamin E, etc.) I've started using Methylene Blue a couple weeks ago, too, including in baths a few times. Nothing definitive with that yet.

 

[narouz]

artemis-
I wouldn't get too overwrought about the skin/toenail stuff.
I don't know if you're a good candidate (ha)
for internal infestation of Candida--
the existence of which is debatable, it seems.

The more important thing, seems to me, is to work on getting your metabolism up.
Remember that Peat's "borderline" for TSH, for example, is not the AMA's borderline.
He likes to see it near zero.

Your metabolism and the skin/toenail fungi could well be linked.
Peat has said that when one's estrogen is high,
and high in the skin as well,
that makes the skin susceptible to things like fungi.
Thyroid is a big part of getting estrogen under control.

My Mexican Drugstore has been incredibly here lately.
I waited about 6 weeks for my last two orders.

I've been meaning to list some of the internal antifungals I've been using.
As I say...don't know that you should leap to the conclusion you need them,
but here's the ones I've experimented with:

-Undecylenic Acid (from Thorne...called Formula 7220 or something like that)
-Pau D'Arco
-Caprylic Acid

There are a couple of special probiotic pills:
-Reuteri
-I can't remember at the moment; will get it for you
And kefir, natural kraut.

As you know I guess, I plan on trying Nystatin enema (and I guess oral).
There are a few more things, but I'll have to return to those later...can't recall the names.

As far as the external stuff:
Now, it is possible that the oral antifungals played a part.
But I kinda doubt it because I think my jock itch healing happened before those.
I had tried all the OTC things.
Suppressed some, but didn't cure.
You know what I think did?
Gold Bold Powder!
Or, mostly a cheap knock-off.

 

[artemis]

Thanks, narouz.

Was that the Gold Bond Powder in the original gold container or the blue one? I have tried the blue one. How long did you have to deal with the jock itch before it finally went away?

I am trying to forget about it lately. Obviously nothing topical is going to work, and the "cure" will have to come from inside. I've just never had to deal with anything like this before, and it really pisses me off that it won't respond to anything!

I have no idea if I have internal candida issues. I hope not. I do have a chronic, low-grade sinus thing going on, and I've read that if such a thing persists for a long time, like mine has, it's probably fungal in nature, as opposed to bacterial/viral.

As for probiotics, I remember reading that people who have candida issues seem to need bifidobacteria. I haven't tried it yet. Have you tried that one?

 

[narouz]

Thanks, narouz.

Was that the Gold Bond Powder in the original gold container or the blue one? I have tried the blue one. How long did you have to deal with the jock itch before it finally went away?

I am trying to forget about it lately. Obviously nothing topical is going to work, and the "cure" will have to come from inside. I've just never had to deal with anything like this before, and it really pisses me off that it won't respond to anything!

I have no idea if I have internal candida issues. I hope not. I do have a chronic, low-grade sinus thing going on, and I've read that if such a thing persists for a long time, like mine has, it's probably fungal in nature, as opposed to bacterial/viral.

As for probiotics, I remember reading that people who have candida issues seem to need bifidobacteria. I haven't tried it yet. Have you tried that one?

It was the yellow one, artemis.
I found a cheap copy brand of it for $1 a container.
I just put a bunch of it in my underwear everyday
and that seemed to clear it up pretty quickly.
I did combine that with other OTC fungicides sometimes.

I do have one big toe that has what looks like fungus in the nail.
I've been meaning to try an OTC toenail fungicide.
Have you?

I hope your meds come through soon from Mexico.
Have you had any lab work for your thyroid?

You might try the undecylenic acid and Pau D'Arco internally.
See what effect that has externally.