Candida Treatment When Already Starved It

[Dangermouse]

As Peat suggests not to starve Candida, to avoid it becoming invasive, what would be the suggested protocol when prior use of the Candida Diet (and lots of other useless antifungals/regimes etc.) has caused it to spread?

I'm 43 year old female and have been dealing with estrogen dominance, clogged liver/low bile and Candida (sure, all connected) for a few years and am now using progesterone cream via a compound pharmacy (50mg at night Days 11-26 - I have a short cycle) which is helping - although feeling awful on Day 3 this month, which may be due to prog levels plummeting - but feel that its not having much impact on the Candida symptoms. I can't take many supplements as liver can't seem to cope but not too bad with caprylic acid, although even diet makes me have severe die-off/liver congestion and most liver support supps also cause problems. I'm also low on Vit D but supplements/foods/sun give me Vit D overdose symptoms (swelling, heart palps, anxiety) which I know can be a problem for a lot of people due to the sarcosteroid effects.

Anyhow, just mainly wondered about the suggested Candida protocol for now thanks.

 

[kettlebell]

Ray Peat discusses "Flowers of Sulphur" in several of his interviews. In one he said that people can use a pinch a day for three days to take care of any overgrowth of candida. It also takes care of any parasites too as an added bonus.

Another thing is to eat regularly to ensure a good metabolism. When you starve candida in the intestine thats when it sends out filaments and starts causing problems. Candida also uses Estrogen for reproduction so if that is high it encourages the spread.

Hope this helps!

 

[Dangermouse]

Thanks for that. I will try the sulphur although eating little and often always makes my Candida worse and I get terrible cravings so end up eating rubbish. I also dont fully understand the feeding it sugar theory (which I read elsewhere on this forum) - does that mean you are just keeping it happy so it doesn't moan and go on a stampede around your body? In which case I'm happy to be less sugar-wary and give that a go! I know for me mushrooms, barley and bakers yeast are the main things to avoid but I'm never sure with cheese as not sure if it competes like probiotics or feeds it - I seem to have good and bad experiences with it and its also tricky sometimes to tell if you're getting flare-up or die-off. Get the same confusion with sourdough.

Cheers!

 

[kettlebell]

does that mean you are just keeping it happy so it doesn't moan and go on a stampede around your body? In which case I'm happy to be less sugar-wary and give that a go!

Exactly that! Anything when its hungry will go looking for food.

Candida in the intestine, when starved, will put out long filaments through the intestinal wall towards the blood stream in an effort to get food. You don't want that to happen. Keeping it fed will keep it from spreading out of control. It sounds like from what you are saying that might have already happened, but when you correct the issue you don't want to immediately cause another overgrowth by starving it again.

All of the stuff about avoiding sugar to keep candida under control is not good advice. Candida is simply one of the many symptoms of a metabolic isssue.

The flowers of sulphur is a quick fix to get things back under control but long term you need to get to and fix the root cause and I would say a low metabolism is a safe bet.

Hope this helps.

 

[John Eels]

Do flowers of sulphur help with bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine?

 

[Birdie]

Thanks for that. I will try the sulphur although eating little and often always makes my Candida worse and I get terrible cravings so end up eating rubbish. I also dont fully understand the feeding it sugar theory (which I read elsewhere on this forum) - does that mean you are just keeping it happy so it doesn't moan and go on a stampede around your body? In which case I'm happy to be less sugar-wary and give that a go! I know for me mushrooms, barley and bakers yeast are the main things to avoid but I'm never sure with cheese as not sure if it competes like probiotics or feeds it - I seem to have good and bad experiences with it and its also tricky sometimes to tell if you're getting flare-up or die-off. Get the same confusion with sourdough.

Cheers!

It might not help yo with food cravings, but the thing that really helps me is to avoid starches. I was reminded of this again on New Year's Eve. I made a Dutch Baby (German Pancake) with masa flour. The horrible cravings that I'd been free of for months, hit me hard after my first serving. I had been eating some starch in the form of tortillas with no problem. Always fruit (sugar) with the tortillas as RP teaches. Well, and protein too... But the Dutch Baby was a big dose of starch. I had fruit with it and it contained protein but the only different thing was the big dose of starch.
It was disappointing because I wanted to bring Dutch Babies back. I am still thrown off by it and having cravings. The absence of cravings was one benefit of peating that I was enjoying. The freedom. Unbelievable and rare for me.

But, as I say, although RP says that starches can activate hunger, not everybody experiences this.

 

[kettlebell]

Do flowers of sulphur help with bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine?

According to Mr Peat, Yes, most definitely. It has a systemic effect.

 

[John Eels]

Do flowers of sulphur help with bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine?

According to Mr Peat, Yes, most definitely. It has a systemic effect.

Interesting. I'll add sulphur to my supplement regimen.

 

[natedawggh]

As Peat suggests not to starve Candida, to avoid it becoming invasive, what would be the suggested protocol when prior use of the Candida Diet (and lots of other useless antifungals/regimes etc.) has caused it to spread?

I'm 43 year old female and have been dealing with estrogen dominance, clogged liver/low bile and Candida (sure, all connected) for a few years and am now using progesterone cream via a compound pharmacy (50mg at night Days 11-26 - I have a short cycle) which is helping - although feeling awful on Day 3 this month, which may be due to prog levels plummeting - but feel that its not having much impact on the Candida symptoms. I can't take many supplements as liver can't seem to cope but not too bad with caprylic acid, although even diet makes me have severe die-off/liver congestion and most liver support supps also cause problems. I'm also low on Vit D but supplements/foods/sun give me Vit D overdose symptoms (swelling, heart palps, anxiety) which I know can be a problem for a lot of people due to the sarcosteroid effects.

Anyhow, just mainly wondered about the suggested Candida protocol for now thanks.

I'm surprised how may people have never heard of bitter melon. It's a potent Chinese medicinal plant that your local albertson's has in the produce section and it will kill almost instantly a whole host of internal pathogens, especially candida (is goes for yeast infections, thrush, etc. as well ((not the white tongue coating... the white coating is not thrush)). It cured my angular chelitis (a candida symptom) and cures my gluten sensitivities. Just a piece morning and night is easier than cooking it or putting it in things...it's very potent a d will have you feeling great in no time. Also, chlorella kills candida (but encourages beneficial bacteria, which can still increase endotoxin).

 

[Birdie]

How interesting about bitter melon. I used to buy it often when I lived near a Chinatown. Haven't seen it where I live now. But, anyway, I've not heard Peat talk about it.

Did you try Dan Wich's search engine? Here:

http://www.toxinless.com/peat/search

I usually try the Ray Peat side (left) first and then go to the other side (Peat ideas stated by others) later.

 

[Birdie]

Oh, yikes. I only saw the question and one comment. Sorry, will read the other posts and see if I'm totally out of place!!

So, going back I saw I gave some advice on the cravings part which I found helpful to remember now!

I don't know if you still have the Candida problem since that was January. Hopefully you're somewhat better. Sometimes takes sooo long.

 

[4peatssake]

I'm surprised how may people have never heard of bitter melon. It's a potent Chinese medicinal plant that your local albertson's has in the produce section and it will kill almost instantly a whole host of internal pathogens, especially candida (is goes for yeast infections, thrush, etc. as well ((not the white tongue coating... the white coating is not thrush)). It cured my angular chelitis (a candida symptom) and cures my gluten sensitivities. Just a piece morning and night is easier than cooking it or putting it in things...it's very potent a d will have you feeling great in no time. Also, chlorella kills candida (but encourages beneficial bacteria, which can still increase endotoxin).

Chlorella is a big no no! Full of PUFA!

Chlorella minutissima is an eukaryotic alga, with a fast growth rate and high PUFA content (Seto et al. 1984) and could be another important source of a PUFA-rich nutraceutical supplement. Since these algae could be relatively easily cultivated at different stress conditions, they offer the prospect of a good source of PUFA for the nutraceutical market.

I've not heard Peat mention bitter lemon and have not researched it. But algae is certainly not recommended!
Peat recommendations for dealing with candida and thrush etc. are well covered on the forum.

 

[charlie]

natedawggh,

I think Chlorella is also high in iron, IIRC.

See ya around.

 

[j.]

But algae is certainly not recommended!

Isn't he talking about a one or two times thing, rather than a staple?

 

[Mittir]

I think Chlorella is also high in iron, IIRC.

100 grams of dried Chlorella has 130 mg of iron. 130 mg not 13 mg.
Surprisingly There are 60 grams of protein and 10 grams of fat.
PUFA content is quite high, one Chlorella site claims it is around 45 %.
It is funny how they try to sell this stuff claiming high iron,beta carotene
and pufa content. It does have a good amount of vitamins and minerals.
But a very rich source of beta carotene, 10 times that of carrot.
This could have been a real super food only if large amount of
iron,pufa and beta carotene were super healthy.

 

[4peatssake]

But algae is certainly not recommended!

Isn't he talking about a one or two times thing, rather than a staple?

Well, he mentions taking "maintenance doses" in another thread.

If you suspect candida, two really awesome home treatments for it are chlorella and/or bitter melon. Either one will knock it out within a day or two and symptoms will continue to improve with maintenance doses afterwards.

From what I have learned about bitter melon is that it will kill the candida and cause die off, which Peat also does not recommend.

Just wanting to be clear that these are not - as far as I can tell - remedies suggested by Ray Peat.

As with any active therapeutic agent, common sense precautions should be taken. Here are some contraindications:

Given bitter melon's traditional use as an abortive, it should not be taken during pregnancy
If being taken for more than 30 days, consider adding a probiotic, since bacterial die-off could cause Candida overgrowth
Hypoglycemics should avoid bitter melon
Given its hypocholesterolemic properties, patients already on cholesterol-lowering drugs should monitor blood levels frequently.

Source

 

[4peatssake]

Definitely would like to hear RP's views on bitter melon.

Just had a cursory glance at this but it's interesting to say the least.
Seems bitter melon is being touted as more than a remedy for diabetes and candida.

Methanolic Extracts of Bitter Melon Inhibit Colon Cancer Stem Cells by Affecting Energy Homeostasis and Autophagy

In this paper, we present the results of our in vitro experiments showing that methanolic extracts of bitter melon (BMW) inhibit cell proliferation, prevent colony formation, and promote S phase cell cycle arrest of colon cancer cells. We also show that these extracts suppress cancer cell spheroid formation suggesting that the extracts target stem cells within the cancer. Mechanistically, we have determined that while the extracts do not induce apoptosis, there is autophagy via the AMPK signaling pathway. In addition, the extracts modulate energy homeostasis to affect the viability of the colon cancer cells.

 

[natedawggh]

But algae is certainly not recommended!

Isn't he talking about a one or two times thing, rather than a staple?

Yes. Chlorella as medicinal. I didn't recommend it as a food source——the question was to cure candida and that is a cure. Also, candida infection often causes Iron deficiency, this is especially evident if you have angular chelitis resulting from candida (dry, cracked, or scabbed corners of your mouth) and if that is the case the iron content of of candida would be beneficial, because a deficiency can cause as many problems as excess. Also, peat talks about iron toxicity as a function of its ratio to Copper, and not simply its presence.

Bitter melon is really effective for a host of intestinal problems. I use it often for a gluten allergy (when I break down and have pizza every few months). Instead of trying to cook it anymore I just eat a fresh piece about two inches in length, seeded.

 

[jyb]

Bitter melon is really effective for a host of intestinal problems. I use it often for a gluten allergy (when I break down and have pizza every few months). Instead of trying to cook it anymore I just eat a fresh piece about two inches in length, seeded.

Interesting, tell us more. After a meal you think might cause problems, you just eat a raw piece of lemon skin?

 

[natedawggh]

Bitter melon is really effective for a host of intestinal problems. I use it often for a gluten allergy (when I break down and have pizza every few months). Instead of trying to cook it anymore I just eat a fresh piece about two inches in length, seeded.

Interesting, tell us more. After a meal you think might cause problems, you just eat a raw piece of lemon skin?

Ha, no. Not lemon——Bitter Melon. It won't prevent damage from eating things you shouldn't! But if you do find yourself in discomfort yes, eating even just a little bit is a powerful remedy. Most places suggest cooking it in meals and having on salads, but it is EXTREMELY BITTER (imagine that?), you probably won't like the taste, so its easier to just chow down a small fresh piece (1-2 inches) and be done with it. I found it at my local Albertson's in the produce section (because it's a common ingredient in some asian cuisine). It has the consistency of celery.