Candida And Fruit/Sugar

[Travis]

By starch eaters, you refer to gluten eaters. Which causes intestinal permeability and sticks to the gut like literal glue decaying there. With a youtube search of fruitarian vlogs you'll find plenty of people with unhealthy looks though.

No. I had been referring specifically to John McDougall amylopectin-eaters. The term 'starch eater' comes from Arnold Ehret, and probably hadn't been seen as offensive back then. It's a somewhat silly term, but Ehret's books had been impressionable enough for it to stick in my mind for so long.

In bread, wheat gliadins are crosslinked with starch molecules into large heteropolymers. Although the high glutamine content of gliadins could be assumed to enhance protein–starch crosslinking, relative to others such as potato/oats/corn, the gliadins are by definition alcohol-soluble. You need a large water-soluble branched molecule, such as amylopectin, to form a volumetric gel with water. I would expect that proteins would contribute the very least towards weight gain.

I have been to Mexico.

Rice starch has a much higher amylose/amylopectin ratio that wheat, higher than any common starch. Amylose is a less-volumetric straight-chained glucose polymer that is easier to metabolize, while amylopectin is the more volumetric branched-chained form slower to metabolize. Amylopectin is nearly identical to glycogen.

I haven't been to Japan, Korea, or China but I've hear rumors of the 'beer belly' phenotype being a rarity.

There are several studies on fructose's mechanism of affecting gut permeability, external to fat intake. You could make a pubmed search. Another one :
Fructokinase, Fructans, Intestinal Permeability, and Metabolic Syndrome: An Equine Connection?

Fructans are fructose polymers, and could modify the packing characteristics of extracellular polyglucose forms (i.e. glycogen, chondroitin, hyaluronic acid). You wouldn't really expect to see the same thing to occur with free fructose would you?

 

[Elephanto]

Which amino acids do this?

Methionine, Leucine, Arginine, Lysine.

For your comment on fructans, you're mixing up things. The article also treats fructose separetely from fructans, despite its title.

And I'm not sure why you bring up these things about rice, it simply doesn't have the effect of "puffing up" the face on populations that consume it like you claim. I've been to an Iranian restaurant, all you can eat there is basmati rice, lentil soup and meat. Very low fat and light on the stomach too. The servers there looked all high test. Then watching the FIFA World Cup I've noticed the Iranian team only had very masculine men contrarily to other teams. Most athletes eat starch, are they supposed to look unhealthy like you claim. It would be very difficult to find a man that actually looks masculine on a high sugar diet since fructose decreases testosterone and thyroid activity.

Fat restriction doesn't have benefits limited to O6 restriction, high fat intake will take a toll on the liver and so proper glucose utilization. That is why Peat recommends a teaspoon of coconut oil at each meal, not unlimited saturated fat intake.

 

[Travis]

And I'm not sure why you bring up these things about rice, it simply doesn't have the effect of "puffing up" the face on populations that consume it like you claim.

Read the above comment. I know the difference between amylopectin an amylose, yet had simply used 'starch' for brevity. I had obviously been referring to amylopectin, not amlose. I had never claimed that eating rice would 'puff up' the face.

 

[Elephanto]

Would black seed oil (which is supposed to be very antifungal) be as bad as the rest of the Omega-6-containing oils?

Olive and coconut oils will take care of your antiseptic needs, not sure why you want an high linoleic acid oil.

Refer to this:
Coconut Oil "completely Abolished Responses To Endotoxin"

 

[Travis]

It would be very difficult to find a man that actually looks masculine on a high sugar diet since fructose decreases testosterone and thyroid activity.

[citation needed]

 

[Elephanto]

[citation needed]

Only the animals on the fructose diet showed any consistent and significant falls in serum T3 and FT3, and T4.

Some effects of various dietary carbohydrates on thyroid activity in the rat. - PubMed - NCBI

Anyway, evidences seem to be mixed about testosterone (one finds drastic fall at 4 weeks then normalization at 12) but that's my own experience, dropping dairy and sugar literally made me a man. And from societal observation you can find that correlation, manchilds who still look like teenagers at 30 are eating high sugar, sometimes high dairy diets, while masculine men usually have the opinion that sugar is for children. People are often right instinctively, which is why saying that milk and sugar is for children seems to be reflected in reality.

 

[Travis]

The fructose rats had a lower body weight, a higher metabolic rate, and could be logically argued to need less T₄ ➝ T₃ conversion for those reasons. Since they also had more T₄, they would naturally demand less thyroidal iodide uptake.

Fructose rats had 1.6% more total free thyroid hormone (T₄ + T₃) than glucose-fed rats:

Why did you suppose this study would even be worth mentioning?

 

[Elephanto]

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Well we are not eating pure fructose so we should be comparing sucrose to glucose. Glucose ends up with higher T4, free T4 and free T3. Even compared with fructose, glucose gets significantly better free t3 which may matter most.

Also rice will give an healthier response than pure glucose, which may end up being better for thyroid health.

Rice (Oryza sativa japonica) Albumin Suppresses the Elevation of Blood Glucose and Plasma Insulin Levels after Oral Glucose Loading. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Travis]

People are often right instinctively, which is why saying that milk and sugar is for children seems to be reflected in reality.

You are aware that practically all of rice's energy content derives from glucose polymers, right?

 

[Travis]

Glucose ends up with higher T4, free T4 and free T3.

The actual data plainly contradicts your statement. The fructose rats had a higher T₄ and a higher free T₄.

Despite a slight reduction in free T₃, the fructose rats a higher total free T₍₄₊₃₎ concentration.

 

[Elephanto]

You are aware that practically all of rice's energy content derives from glucose polymers, right?

I guess your logic would make you a child (and in more than one way).

Personally attacking the arguer instead of the argument doesn't seem very mature but hey, it's fine. I do realize that rice doesn't contain any fructose and that those glucose polymers have nothing to do with sucrose.

I'll admit I might have been wrong about thyroid, it was a while since I've read studies mentioning it and just assumed it was correct since it matches my experience.

But still, it's far from its only issue. Compared to a starch diet, we find with a fructose diet that

Increase in hepatic triglyceride content was first observed in metabolic disturbance followed by hypertriglyceridemia and systemic insulin resistance in fructose-fed rats. Hepatic lipids were increased in time-dependent manner by fructose-feeding starting from 4 weeks, but circulatory triglyceride levels were increased after 12 weeks. Fasting insulin and Homeostatis Model Assessment of Insulin Resistance (HOMA-IR) were increased after 12 weeks of fructose-feeding

Transient Decrease in Circulatory Testosterone and Homocysteine Precedes the Development of Metabolic Syndrome Features in Fructose-Fed Sprague Dawley Rats

So much for fructose not affecting insulin. Then I recommend this article, good read.

Fructose: It’s “Alcohol Without the Buzz”

 

[Travis]

Personally attacking the arguer instead of the argument doesn't seem very mature but hey, it's fine.

You had attacked yourself with your own logic. You insinuated that all 'sugar' and 'dairy' eaters were somehow less manly than rice eaters—perhaps somewhat akin to 'children'—yet on a caloric basis rice contains mostly polyglucose (a.k.a. sugar) chains. If you imagine that glucose polymers in rice starch are significantly more androgenic than glucose monomers in Coca-Cola™, as it seems you might, I hope you don't cite the Koreans as proof of this.

But before that even, you had sidetracked a thread on candidiasis with irrelevant scaremongering claims against fructose in a true Robert Lustig fashion.

I'll admit I might have been wrong about thyroid.

Might have been? You had been unambiguously wrong about the thyroid, or at the very least had greatly over-emphasized a 13% reduction in free-T₃. Regardless, such a narrow focus would be very misleading without also noting the other changes in their thyroid parameters. The fructose-fed rats also had:

1. a 2.8% higher free T₄ concentration
2. a 6.2% higher total T₄ concentration
3. identical total T₃ concentrations
4. a 4.5% increase in their metabolic rates
5. slightly lower body weights

Since the teleological role of T₃ is to increase the metabolic rate through it's nuclear receptor, rats having a higher metabolic rate to begin with would naturally need less T₄ ➝ T₃ conversion. The fact that the fructose-fed rats had a higher metabolic rate in spite of the 13% reduction in free-T₃ could perhaps be considered a pro-metabolic trend in that group.

But still, it's far frobpared to a starch diet, we find with a fructose diet that

Transient Decrease in Circulatory Testosterone and Homocysteine Precedes the Development of Metabolic Syndrome Features in Fructose-Fed Sprague Dawley Rats

Hmm.. . Looks like something Robert Lustig would put in a bag, set on fire, and then leave on someones doorstep before running away.

So much for fructose not affecting insulin.

Fructose does not significantly effect insulin release, a long-standing observation:

Grant, A. M. "Insulin release from human pancreatic islets in vitro." Diabetologia (1980)

'The islets retained the insulin-secretory response to 20 mmol/l glucose throughout the period of study. Insulin secretion was also stimulated by mannose, leucine, α-ketoisocaproate, dihydroxyacetone and 3-hydroxybutyrate, but not by fructose or N-acetyl-glucosamine.' ―Grant​

I suppose a person could imagine a few roundabout ways that nearly anything could release insulin...

But when shopping for potential insulin secretagogues, I'd think most rational people would put fructose near the bottom of the list.

 

[Dave Clark]

@Dave Clark, ozone therapy has been around for 150 years and I agree is an awesome therapy against infectious agents and activating the immune system. You do need to be careful on how to administer, though.

How did you use; ears, rectally or other?

I mostly do rectal insufflations, however, if I feel I have something going on in my sinuses or ears, I will do ear insufflations, rarely do I do nasal, but that is an option if I have any upper respiratory issues. Ozone is safe, but like anything dose makes the poison. Keeping the gamma in a safe range and not using too much volume works fine. I was using 30 gamma for months and had no good results for canndida, then I read that the fungal killing effects happen after 40 gamma, so I satarted using 45 gamma and things cleared up in a few weeks. I now do one or two/week just to keep things under wrap (along with the other benefits of ozone).

 

[Ella]

@Dave Clark how did you determine Candida was your issue and did you track immune markers? I looked into ozone as a pathogen killer many moons ago, but was put off by the risks. These were the early days though and have spoken to drs recently who are using it in their clinics and have heard impressive results.

I wonder whether optimising thyroid is a less invasive means of dealing with pathogens.

Did you track thyroid function and did you experience improvement/changes?

 

[sunraiser]

My personal experience with something I think was candida was that eating a low sugar (but highish starch) diet did not coincide with improvement. Eating more fruit and more sugar did.
Lots of other things changed too, so I'm not assuming that was causal. Could have been that I started eating more sugar at the same time that I radically reduced PUFA for instance.

I find the same. Not more sugars in a vacuum, but specifically more sugars WITH starches. This doesn't mean unrestricted sugar use, merely a little honey or banana with weetabix, or "brown sauce" (a sweet/spicy sauce made from vinegar and molasses) with sandwiches.

This article from Chris Masterjohn is interesting and might shed some light on the idea:

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/01/24/sometimes-sugar-better-starch/

To note - I was a long time sugar avoider and I still see refined sugar in larger quantities to be the biggest reason for obesity (or any sweetening substance), however following cravings to sweeten starchy foods has given a big increase in both salivation and digestion. For me it means less than a teaspoon of honey or demerera sugar with weetabix for it to taste "right". Or just a banana.

For me candida is a thing that's there for a reason - it's helping digest the food your body wasn't able to digest alongside helping deal with unbound iron and other heavy metals.

Once you improve digestion be it through salivation of food, better understanding of cravings, restoring calcium metabolism or however else, the candida will stop proliferating.

Trying to kill it only made me feel worse beyond the short term.

 

[Ella]

For me candida is a thing that's there for a reason - it's helping digest the food your body wasn't able to digest alongside helping deal with unbound iron and other heavy metals.

@sunraiser, I tend to agree. Don't forget estrogen metabolites will also proliferate candida. How many on this forum are dealing with estrogen issues?

 

[SamYo123]

By starch eaters, you refer to gluten eaters. Which causes intestinal permeability and sticks to the gut like literal glue decaying there. With a youtube search of fruitarian vlogs you'll find plenty of people with unhealthy looks though.

There are several studies on fructose's mechanism of affecting gut permeability, external to fat intake. You could make a pubmed search. Another one :
Fructokinase, Fructans, Intestinal Permeability, and Metabolic Syndrome: An Equine Connection?

but if some eats oats containing gluten and makes bowl movements then is what you say true?